Draft Needs

[*Synric*]

(11-15-2023, 03:47 PM)Tomcat Wrote: Why can't you tag him knowing you're going to trade him?

They can but they still have to fit all 3 under the cap within the first couple days of free agency because Reader and Williams will be signed fast. Between the 3 it will be 50m + in cap space until you can unload the tag which could be the day of rhe draft 2 months later. 

[*ochocincos*]

(11-15-2023, 03:41 PM)Synric Wrote: They won't be able to fit Tee's tag, Reader, and Williams comtract under the cap. Even if you are tagging and trading Tee he has to be under tha cap and the tag comes first because of the deadline.

They also have to negotiate with Chase this off-season preferably before Jefferson resets the market would be nice to see the Bengals beat the Vikings to it.

Yep exactly.

And not to mention the Bengals typically like to keep $10-15 mill in cap going into the draft too, so they can't afford to (or won't) spend $50+ mill on just 3 guys when they have other needs.

I think the more likely scenario is 1 guy, possibly 2, will be retained.

I lean on the most likely to retain being Jonah Williams, as long as he's willing to stay at RT.
Higgins would be second-most likely but he will be the most expensive.
Reader I don't think has a high likelihood (at least not at his same or higher price point) because he'll be 30 years old and Bengals don't sign old FAs.

[3wt]

(11-14-2023, 05:06 PM)puddycat Wrote: Potential starter losses: Jonah, Tee, DJ, Tyler, Chibobe
I'd hate to lose DJ especially.  Good interior linemen can play into their late 30s. Re-signing DJ is the highest priority.
Priority draft NT, RT - I don't see anyone under contract at these positions right now.  (Fuaga, T'Vondre Sweat) NT doesn't have to be a high draft pick so long as he's an immovable object.
WR? We could survive with Chase, Irwin, Iosivas, and Jones, especially if we starting using the TE.  I'd like a veteran FA leader in this group.
DB? Again we have a good young group here.  Depth at CB needed.  (Cooper DeJean would be a versatile asset back here)
TE? Maybe there will be enough ball to go around next year for a premier TE.  Sample & Hudson provide enough to add a later pick. (Spann-Ford in the 4th?)
DE? Hendrickson & Hubbard are under contract through 2025. Murphy is developing.  No room for a developing pick.
DT? BJ Hill under contract.  I'd like to see a disruptor here. (Jer'Zhan Newton, Tyliek Williams)
IOL?  We're meh! all the way across.  I'd like to build this unit into a strength starting in Round 2.
RB? Like TE, I'd like a game-breaker at this spot if I thought the coaches knew how to use this position.  They don't.

Summary: RT, disruptive DT, NT, IOL, BPA DB/TE/RB

Agree with these.  They need a better DT to go with Reader and a disrupter like Newton.  And after the Texans game it is clear that the IOL needs to be improved.  I say sign Reader and Jonah.  Hope we can get lucky with a 3T, IOL and TE in the draft.   Keaton Mitchell was an UDFA.  There were injury concerns and he was light.  At some point you have to start taking a few chances.  I think of Mitchell, Gronk, Smith (the G from Tennessee KC got late becuase of injury issues).  The jury is out on Darnell Washington, and Battle may end up being the best pick there because we let Bell go.  

I'd love Newton, Barton (or better) and Stover in the first 3 rounds.  They also need to start finding DTs and RBs in the later rounds.  And be smart about it.  Even I knew that Grady Jarrett was a good DT in the 4th round.  And they took some experiment that didn't work out.   Wears me out.

I feel like the board needs to take over the draft.

OK I know that's just silly, but there are times when I truly believe it.

[3wt]

(11-15-2023, 04:43 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yep exactly.

And not to mention the Bengals typically like to keep $10-15 mill in cap going into the draft too, so they can't afford to (or won't) spend $50+ mill on just 3 guys when they have other needs.

I think the more likely scenario is 1 guy, possibly 2, will be retained.

I lean on the most likely to retain being Jonah Williams, as long as he's willing to stay at RT.
Higgins would be second-most likely but he will be the most expensive.
Reader I don't think has a high likelihood (at least not at his same or higher price point) because he'll be 30 years old and Bengals don't sign old FAs.

As much as I love Tee, DT and RT are more important.  Just harder to find.  Get the draft pick from Tee and draft a speedster with the pick.  Reader and Jonah can play for a while yet, and besides Hill no one but Reader is worth a darn in the middle.  Those players are hard to find.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-15-2023, 08:06 PM)3wt Wrote: As much as I love Tee, DT and RT are more important.  Just harder to find.  Get the draft pick from Tee and draft a speedster with the pick.  Reader and Jonah can play for a while yet, and besides Hill no one but Reader is worth a darn in the middle.  Those players are hard to find.

Are you talking about a tag-and-trade?
If so, the Bengals will have to hold the tag cap for Tee until he could be traded, and there's no guarantee the trade would even happen. At least not potentially for the pick(s) the Bengals would seek.

Wouldn't Higgins also have to sign his tag before he could be traded? Or could he sign after the trade?

[Whatever]

(11-16-2023, 10:39 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Are you talking about a tag-and-trade?
If so, the Bengals will have to hold the tag cap for Tee until he could be traded, and there's no guarantee the trade would even happen. At least not potentially for the pick(s) the Bengals would seek.

Wouldn't Higgins also have to sign his tag before he could be traded? Or could he sign after the trade?

Tee and his agent would have to be involved in the trade, anyways, as any trade would likely be contingent on Tee agreeing to terms with the other club on a contract.  I believe he does have to sign the tag as a formality, but it can be after a trade and his new deal are agreed upon.

It does, effectively, give Higgins the right to veto any trade proposal, as he can simply refuse to negotiate a new deal with the other club.  A trade could also be agreed on between the teams and fall through because Higgins wants a bigger contract than the other party is willing to pay.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-16-2023, 04:57 PM)Whatever Wrote: Tee and his agent would have to be involved in the trade, anyways, as any trade would likely be contingent on Tee agreeing to terms with the other club on a contract.  I believe he does have to sign the tag as a formality, but it can be after a trade and his new deal are agreed upon.

It does, effectively, give Higgins the right to veto any trade proposal, as he can simply refuse to negotiate a new deal with the other club.  A trade could also be agreed on between the teams and fall through because Higgins wants a bigger contract than the other party is willing to pay.

That's the risk you take then, as you basically have to tag at ~$23 mill and then hope the trade happens to free up that cap after the fact.
That's not something I personally want to risk.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-13-2023, 06:51 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I think we've all seen enough to know what the big needs are for next year's draft/free agency.

1.  Interior Pass Rush - We've been missing this since Geno retired.  We got a glimpse with Larry O, but we absolutely must have a guy that can knife through the line and create pressure up the middle.

2.  Safety - I'll hedge this a little, saying that maybe Battle can be the guy to step in and secure this spot.  I would much rather see another speed/coverage guy like Dax back there.  

3.  TE - Normally I don't clamor for a tight end, but the reality is that teams aren't going to move away from taking away the deep stuff.  We need a guy that can punish teams over the middle and make some big plays up the seam.

4.  IOL.  Still not sold on the guys.  It would be nice to have a Pro-Bowl caliber guy somewhere in the middle.

Obviously things will change with the roster, but those are the issues that I seem to scratch my head about every week.

We need a NT as well to learn behind DJ Reader assuming we extend him. I think Safety will be fine with both Battle and Tycen 
Anderson on the team. One of these guys can be the stud next to Dax Hill I am pretty sure. Agree on 3-tech, TE, agree on IOL, we 
need a LG or a Center and move Karras. We will need a stud weapon, whether that be a WR, TE or RB to add to the fray...

Maybe all 3.

We also need a pass rusher in case Murphy doesn't grow into a stud or Ossai keeps getting injured.

We will need a RT once Jonah leaves.

We have a lot of needs, more than I thought coming into this season, but they can be filled with a smart Free Agency and Draft as
long as we add a new OL coach and even some scouts that know the trenches on both sides to help Duke in the Draft.

[Hammerstripes]

(11-15-2023, 03:41 PM)Synric Wrote: They won't be able to fit Tee's tag, Reader, and Williams comtract under the cap. Even if you are tagging and trading Tee he has to be under tha cap and the tag comes first because of the deadline.

They also have to negotiate with Chase this off-season preferably before Jefferson resets the market would be nice to see the Bengals beat the Vikings to it.

Don't we have $70 million in cap space next year?  I'm pretty sure we could do those contracts and have enough to tag Tee.

There was a ton of interest in Tee at the deadline, so I would be shocked if he can't find a trade in the offseason.,