If Burrow is out Zac will be exposed

[Bronxbengal]

(11-17-2023, 09:59 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I was making a joke.  I swear some of you guys need a damn disclaimer....

Oh your football jokes are so funny and you said mine were not LOL


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[THE PISTONS]

(11-17-2023, 11:18 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: He's a good DC, and he seems to be able to scheme his defense to his players strengths. His players like him and he generally has the defense playing disciplined. I'm not sure how good he would be on the offensive side, but if you're able to pair him with an OC who can call plays, I think he could make the team pretty good. I feel like Zac and Callahan are both stubborn with their offensive scheme, but Lou seems to be ok with changing up his scheme by adjusting in the 2nd half. I don't really see the offense doing that very often, and would like to see a HC who has that mentality.

HC skills far exceed being a capable coordinator.

Remember that expose a few years ago about the Bengals issues?

[casear2727]

(11-17-2023, 11:34 PM)Bronxbengal Wrote: Oh your football jokes are so funny and you said mine were not LOL


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I am tremendously more humorous than you.  Out of the goodness of my heart, when I give you those ball lessons I'll toss in some juicy jokes you can tell your friends.

[Brownshoe]

(11-17-2023, 11:49 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: HC skills far exceed being a capable coordinator.

Remember that expose a few years ago about the Bengals issues?

Yeah that's true. It still doesn't mean that he couldn't be a good HC. Can't know until you try. You know what you have with Zac and Callahan. Personally, I would be looking for something better. Can't have all this talent on offense and not play to your potential.

[Cosmokramer]

(11-17-2023, 10:59 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Bledsoe was a 1st overall pick who made it to a SB with a downtrodden franchise and he was replaced by a surprise nobody that wasn't supposed to make it off the bench. Close enough for a facetious comparison.

Sent from my LM-X210CM using Tapatalk

I was basing it off statistics, Burrow has been in the league significantly less time, has already throw. For more TDS in a season multiple than Bledsoe whole career, also mch better completion percentage, and more yards in a season than Bledsoe ever did.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-17-2023, 10:42 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Is the offense a total disaster? No certainly not but the problem is we are asking Burrow to do too much. As has been said we essentially have no insurance policy with a backup for Burrow yet we do nothing to limit what we ask of him. That's one thing being 100% but another being hobbled with a bad calf. I just really don't think we can have a consistent running game with Zac calling plays to help Burrow out. 

Seriously look at it. Zac came in 2019 we had a great run game with Mixon 2018. Not only was it terrible but we asked Dalton to throw it 40+ times a game. When the run game finally gets fixed we bench Dalton. 2020 Burrow is drafted terrible oline. No emphasis on the run just ask Burrow to throw 40+ times knee gets shredded. It's been more of the same the past 2 seasons but we have Chase but we just continue to not be consistent with the run. I'm rambling and being incoherent but something has to change.

Great run game? We haven't had an efficient run game since Rudi Johnson. Mixon got bulk yards that year, but the YPC was still bad.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-18-2023, 03:44 PM)Wyche Wrote: Great run game? We haven't had an efficient run game since Rudi Johnson. Mixon got bulk yards that year, but the YPC was still bad.

2018 the year before Taylor took over. 

Mixon rushing stats were.

237 att. 1168 yds 4.9 avg.

Those yards were good for 4th in the league and the 4.9 avg. was 2nd in the league. So if we're not saying top 5 in the league is great? I'm not sure what conversation we are having.

[samhain]

(11-18-2023, 03:44 PM)Wyche Wrote: Great run game? We haven't had an efficient run game since Rudi Johnson. Mixon got bulk yards that year, but the YPC was still bad.

Cedric was the engine of the offense.  Hill looked like a monster as a rookie.  Then he came back with a starting job and looked like he for got how to run.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Yeah, I was gonna say, Benson in 09 was probably the last time we actually had a running game. Which really is crazy to think about. Especially in the AFCN.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-18-2023, 07:43 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yeah, I was gonna say, Benson in 09 was probably the last time we actually had a running game. Which really is crazy to think about. Especially in the AFCN.

Rudi Johnson best avg. was 4.5

Cedric Benson best avg. was 4.2 (2009)

Joe Mixon best avg. was 4.9 -2018

Also interesting Mixon has never had 300 att. In a year while Benson eclipsed that mark a couple of times and Rudi Johnson my goodness had years of 361, 337 and 341 attempts. Wow.

I also wanted to say in 2019 Mixon had to be one of the worst backs the 1st half of the season 3 yd avg. the 1st 7 games then had a 4.6 avg the last 9 games making him again the top 2 back during that stretch. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-17-2023, 10:42 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Seriously look at it. Zac came in 2019 we had a great run game with Mixon 2018.

2018 Bengals were 21st in rushing ypg.

It was efficient, but not great or prolific. RBs are one of the biggest 1-year-wonder positions in the NFL. Sometimes they just have one great year and they'll never repeat it again. 

2015 Giovani Bernard went for 4.7ypc and 9.6avg.
2014 Jeremy Hill went for 1,124 yards at 5.1ypc.
2014 Justin Forsett went for 1,266 yards at 5.4ypc.
2011 Ben Tate went for 942 yards at 5.4ypc.
2010 Peyton Hillis went for 1,177 yards at 4.4ypc.
2009 Cedric Benson went for 1,251 yards at 4.2ypc.
2008 Le'Ron McClain was randomly an All-Pro with 900 yards and 10 TDs and his second highest totals are 180 and 2.

Just some AFCN guys that I could think of off the top of my head who had a year that they never came close to recreating as far as both production and efficiency combined are concerned. I'm sure there's a mountain more if I expanded it to the NFL and was more thorough.

Their 1-year-wonder status combined with the extreme wear-and-tear and quick aging is just another reason you don't pay RBs.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-18-2023, 08:37 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 2018 Bengals were 21st in rushing ypg.

It was efficient, but not great or prolific. RBs are one of the biggest 1-year-wonder positions in the NFL. Sometimes they just have one great year and they'll never repeat it again. 

2015 Giovani Bernard went for 4.7ypc and 9.6avg.
2014 Jeremy Hill went for 1,124 yards at 5.1ypc.
2014 Justin Forsett went for 1,266 yards at 5.4ypc.
2011 Ben Tate went for 942 yards at 5.4ypc.
2010 Peyton Hillis went for 1,177 yards at 4.4ypc.
2009 Cedric Benson went for 1,251 yards at 4.2ypc.
2008 Le'Ron McClain was randomly an All-Pro with 900 yards and 10 TDs and his second highest totals are 180 and 2.

Just some AFCN guys that I could think of off the top of my head who had a year that they never came close to recreating as far as both production and efficiency combined are concerned. I'm sure there's a mountain more if I expanded it to the NFL and was more thorough.

Their 1-year-wonder status combined with the extreme wear-and-tear and quick aging is just another reason you don't pay RBs.

Well fair enough because I did say a great running game. I should have said we had a top 4 running back which I would consider great. I mean we had the 7th highest avg. rush as a team. We had 359 carries of which Mixon had 237. Those top teams had 200+ carries outside of they're top backs.

So we did not have Russell Wilson or Lamar Jackson running all over the field that is correct. But it may be impossible to say if Mixon could've repeated that success or Taylor was unable to utilize him. It did take him 8 Games to figure it out in 2019 then we draft Burrow and I dont think that drove him to want to run it more.

[chopperbobby]

What’s exposed is we have no real backups. We needed a vet QB. Especially with Joe starting in pre season getting hurt. We need a TE. Starting OL is not good so back ups are worse. Almost no pass rush. Back up DL? It would have been nice to keep one of our safety’s last year . I think our coach is all in on the starters and does not thinks much on backups. Teams that go far have good depth for the most part. All teams lose players. You have to have back up plans.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-18-2023, 09:22 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: But it may be impossible to say if Mixon could've repeated that success or Taylor was unable to utilize him. It did take him 8 Games to figure it out in 2019 then we draft Burrow and I dont think that drove him to want to run it more.

I mean, year 4 of Mixon (with Joe Burrow) looked an awful lot like year 1 of Mixon, and not terribly far off year 6 of Mixon.

So I think at this point, in his 7th year, we can comfortably say that the Mixon of 2018 was the anomalous outlier.

- - - -

You say he "figured it out" in 2019 after 8 games, but the reality was he just played the Browns twice, who had the 30th ranked rushing defense in both yards and yards per carry. Also had a good game against the Patriots in a game the Bengals lost by 21, which defenses will happily let you run if you're getting crushed because it keeps eating up clock and ends the game sooner. Prior to that, he averaged 3.5 yards per carry the first 12 games of the season, dead on his 2017 number and .1 below his 2018 number. 

The 4.9ypc Mixon of 2018 was just a mirage that kept you expecting and hoping for more. His other 6 years all tell a pretty consistent truth.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-18-2023, 12:12 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Yeah that's true. It still doesn't mean that he couldn't be a good HC. Can't know until you try. You know what you have with Zac and Callahan. Personally, I would be looking for something better. Can't have all this talent on offense and not play to your potential.

It's the whole Zimmer debate. People wanted him as our HC.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-18-2023, 11:44 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I mean, year 4 of Mixon (with Joe Burrow) looked an awful lot like year 1 of Mixon, and not terribly far off year 6 of Mixon.

So I think at this point, in his 7th year, we can comfortably say that the Mixon of 2018 was the anomalous outlier.

- - - -

You say he "figured it out" in 2019 after 8 games, but the reality was he just played the Browns twice, who had the 30th ranked rushing defense in both yards and yards per carry. Also had a good game against the Patriots in a game the Bengals lost by 21, which defenses will happily let you run if you're getting crushed because it keeps eating up clock and ends the game sooner. Prior to that, he averaged 3.5 yards per carry the first 12 games of the season, dead on his 2017 number and .1 below his 2018 number. 

The 4.9ypc Mixon of 2018 was just a mirage that kept you expecting and hoping for more. His other 6 years all tell a pretty consistent truth.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. He was the #2 back in the NFL the 2nd half of 2019. Where he had like 4 games under 20 yds the 1st half. So we definitely figured something out. 

I also think it's impossible to say if 2018 is an outlier because Taylor and company is an unknown variable. It's like saying we know exactly what AJ Green was because we have all of his stats. Well you also had probably one of the worst deep throw QBs in the league as his QB for the best part of his career. 

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(11-17-2023, 10:54 PM)CincinnatiKid Wrote: There are plenty of  teams winning right now with back up quarterbacks and who have less talent than the Bengals do.  This is ?% on Zac Taylor.  We will see what he is without Joe Burrow. 

I agree with this.  This team has a ton of talent on it and I thought we should have rested Joe's calf in the first four games of the season. Maybe developed a backup QB for exactly this situation.  It's heading into week 12 and everyone is banged up, and this is when your depth and resolve as a team will persevere. 

Time to see what we're made of.. Gut Check time. 

[Frank Booth]

(11-19-2023, 12:04 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I'm sorry but I have to disagree. He was the #2 back in the NFL the 2nd half of 2019. Where he had like 4 games under 20 yds the 1st half. So we definitely figured something out. 

I also think it's impossible to say if 2018 is an outlier because Taylor and company is an unknown variable. It's like saying we know exactly what AJ Green was because we have all of his stats. Well you also had probably one of the worst deep throw QBs in the league as his QB for the best part of his career. 

evey year there is a awful team where the RB starts to go off by the end of the year

it's opposing teams not giving 100% when facing dog crap teams. You see it every year

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-18-2023, 11:44 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I mean, year 4 of Mixon (with Joe Burrow) looked an awful lot like year 1 of Mixon, and not terribly far off year 6 of Mixon.

So I think at this point, in his 7th year, we can comfortably say that the Mixon of 2018 was the anomalous outlier.

- - - -

You say he "figured it out" in 2019 after 8 games, but the reality was he just played the Browns twice, who had the 30th ranked rushing defense in both yards and yards per carry. Also had a good game against the Patriots in a game the Bengals lost by 21, which defenses will happily let you run if you're getting crushed because it keeps eating up clock and ends the game sooner. Prior to that, he averaged 3.5 yards per carry the first 12 games of the season, dead on his 2017 number and .1 below his 2018 number. 

The 4.9ypc Mixon of 2018 was just a mirage that kept you expecting and hoping for more. His other 6 years all tell a pretty consistent truth.

I also want to say it's funny you pointed to year one and 4. Because year 1 he did get dinged up but that year I believe we also figured something out as far as the blocking scheme he excels in. I remember saying to a friend that I just didn't like the way he runs. But then at the end of the season it changed dramatically. Then it carried over to 2018. So when Taylor took over in 2019 I thought well atleast we have the run game figured out which is more than some coaches get. Only to be left scratching my head the 1st 7 games. So maybe the truth is we have a football staff that keeps trying to put a square peg in a round hole. I know which one I think is more likely.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-19-2023, 12:09 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: evey year there is a awful team where the RB starts to go off by the end of the year

it's opposing teams not giving 100% when facing dog crap teams. You see it every year

Yeah we'll see if that happens this year. Teams knowing Browning can't do crap they'll just let Mixon run for 150 a game.