If Burrow is out Zac will be exposed

[CincinnatiKid]

(11-19-2023, 12:08 AM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: I agree with this.  This team has a ton of talent on it and I thought we should have rested Joe's calf in the first four games of the season. Maybe developed a backup QB for exactly this situation.  It's heading into week 12 and everyone is banged up, and this is when your depth and resolve as a team will persevere. 

Time to see what we're made of.. Gut Check time. 

Precisely…just seems to me Zac Taylors entire coaching philosophy is to have Joe Burrow make him look competent. Zacs only success in Cincinnati is when he had a healthy Joe Burrow

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(11-18-2023, 11:44 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I mean, year 4 of Mixon (with Joe Burrow) looked an awful lot like year 1 of Mixon, and not terribly far off year 6 of Mixon.

So I think at this point, in his 7th year, we can comfortably say that the Mixon of 2018 was the anomalous outlier.

- - - -

You say he "figured it out" in 2019 after 8 games, but the reality was he just played the Browns twice, who had the 30th ranked rushing defense in both yards and yards per carry. Also had a good game against the Patriots in a game the Bengals lost by 21, which defenses will happily let you run if you're getting crushed because it keeps eating up clock and ends the game sooner. Prior to that, he averaged 3.5 yards per carry the first 12 games of the season, dead on his 2017 number and .1 below his 2018 number. 

The 4.9ypc Mixon of 2018 was just a mirage that kept you expecting and hoping for more. His other 6 years all tell a pretty consistent truth.

I get the point of your pic, but everyone was saying we should have taken Dawand Jones in the first, but then Cleveland got him.  He's spent most of his rookie year hurt, so it's tough to use your #1 on a OL that may turn into a bust.   

Side note:  In reviewing the Ravens game, Orlando Brown Jr, was getting owned by Oweh and Kyle Von Noy.  He had no answer whatsoever for them.  I thought OBJr was our answer to all our LT problems.  He stunk up Baltimore. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-18-2023, 07:35 PM)samhain Wrote: Cedric was the engine of the offense.  Hill looked like a monster as a rookie.  Then he came back with a starting job and looked like he for got how to run.

(11-18-2023, 07:43 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yeah, I was gonna say, Benson in 09 was probably the last time we actually had a running game. Which really is crazy to think about. Especially in the AFCN.

The thing about Benson in 09 that y'all are forgetting is we ran unbalanced lines a shit ton in order to run. You don't remember good ol Dennis Roland as the extra blocker? Benson ran hard, but it took six linemen to run the ball. I don't count Jeremy Hill's anamoly anymore. I've mentioned it a couple of times in other threads, but decided to quit because that's the only drop he ever pissed. We've sucked at running the football efficiently for well over a decade. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-18-2023, 08:37 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 2018 Bengals were 21st in rushing ypg.

It was efficient, but not great or prolific. RBs are one of the biggest 1-year-wonder positions in the NFL. Sometimes they just have one great year and they'll never repeat it again. 

2015 Giovani Bernard went for 4.7ypc and 9.6avg.
2014 Jeremy Hill went for 1,124 yards at 5.1ypc.
2014 Justin Forsett went for 1,266 yards at 5.4ypc.
2011 Ben Tate went for 942 yards at 5.4ypc.
2010 Peyton Hillis went for 1,177 yards at 4.4ypc.
2009 Cedric Benson went for 1,251 yards at 4.2ypc.
2008 Le'Ron McClain was randomly an All-Pro with 900 yards and 10 TDs and his second highest totals are 180 and 2.

Just some AFCN guys that I could think of off the top of my head who had a year that they never came close to recreating as far as both production and efficiency combined are concerned. I'm sure there's a mountain more if I expanded it to the NFL and was more thorough.

Their 1-year-wonder status combined with the extreme wear-and-tear and quick aging is just another reason you don't pay RBs.

Also, wasn't 2018 the year they switched blocking scheme after the bye?

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-19-2023, 12:35 AM)Wyche Wrote: Also, wasn't 2018 the year they switched blocking scheme after the bye?

Had to be 2019

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-19-2023, 12:35 AM)Wyche Wrote: Also, wasn't 2018 the year they switched blocking scheme after the bye?

I feel like that's every year the previous 4 years that they talk about switching blocking schemes in the middle of the season, and then pretend it gets marginally better (remember how much "better" Volson was in the second half of his rookie season? He was going to be greatly improved this year), then go right back to stinking the next year.

All just kind of blurred together.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-19-2023, 12:04 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I'm sorry but I have to disagree. He was the #2 back in the NFL the 2nd half of 2019. Where he had like 4 games under 20 yds the 1st half. So we definitely figured something out. 

I also think it's impossible to say if 2018 is an outlier because Taylor and company is an unknown variable. It's like saying we know exactly what AJ Green was because we have all of his stats. Well you also had probably one of the worst deep throw QBs in the league as his QB for the best part of his career. 

Lol, so Joe Mixon is secretly amazing but has been held back for the last 5 years and his rookie year too... but Dalton was one of the worst deep throw QBs in the league?

That's an interesting alternate reality.


2017


2021



Was Dalton always amazing at the deep ball? No. But one of the worst in the league is just nonsense to say, that he somehow kept us from knowing what AJ Green could have been. He was a 7x Pro Bowler, 2x 2nd Team All-Pro. A great-but-not-elite WR who could make spectacular catches but would drop a fair number of really easy ones, and struggled against physical press coverage.

Meanwhile Mixon has been subpar or bad in 6 of his 7 years and his yards after contact keeps dwindling even though his yards before contact have increased every year he's played for Taylor.

In 2018 Mixon averaged 2.7 yards before contact and 2.3 yards after contact.
In 2023 Mixon is averaging 2.5 yards before contact and 1.4 yards after contact.

Mixon's problems are the same they have been. He lacks good vision, lacks good balance, doesn't have that final breakaway gear to hit a homerun or get the outside edge, and way too much of the time he runs with the physicality of someone 30 pounds lighter

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(11-19-2023, 12:48 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I feel like that's every year the previous 4 years that they talk about switching blocking schemes in the middle of the season, and then pretend it gets marginally better (remember how much "better" Volson was in the second half of his rookie season? He was going to be greatly improved this year), then go right back to stinking the next year.

All just kind of blurred together.

Volson and Cappa are worse.  Cappa was one of the best ROG in the NFL, so why the fall off?  Really, I hate to be the, "Blame everything on coach guy,"  when you've seen these guys have above-average potential, but WTAF is going on?!?!

Orlando Brown, Jr., isn't living up to his expectations either.  I guess he got him a new contract to bank on for a few more years.

Our TE, Drew Sample has to be the most improved blocking player we have.

We have spent the past few years drafting defensively in the first few rounds, so is this catching up with us?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-19-2023, 12:48 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I feel like that's every year the previous 4 years that they talk about switching blocking schemes in the middle of the season, and then pretend it gets marginally better (remember how much "better" Volson was in the second half of his rookie season? He was going to be greatly improved this year), then go right back to stinking the next year.

All just kind of blurred together.

It really has, I remember one year Bill Lazor had to take over the run game coordinator stuff from Alexander.... there's so many years of suck with the run game it's hard to differentiate.

[OUatown]

Zac has got Burrow knocked out of 2 seasons! He has no desire/clue how to establish the run game! He needs to get a real OC or get fired!

[Brownshoe]

(11-19-2023, 12:03 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's the whole Zimmer debate. People wanted him as our HC.

He did pretty well in Minnesota. Never had a great QB but still was really competitive.

[Sled21]

(11-19-2023, 12:29 AM)CincinnatiKid Wrote: Precisely…just seems to me Zac Taylors entire coaching philosophy is to have Joe Burrow make him look competent. Zacs only success in Cincinnati is when he had a healthy Joe Burrow

So, you mean he's on the Bill Belicheat plan

[CincinnatiKid]

(11-19-2023, 11:43 AM)Sled21 Wrote: So, you mean he's on the Bill Belicheat plan

Precisely….

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-19-2023, 01:06 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Lol, so Joe Mixon is secretly amazing but has been held back for the last 5 years and his rookie year too... but Dalton was one of the worst deep throw QBs in the league?

That's an interesting alternate reality.


2017


2021



Was Dalton always amazing at the deep ball? No. But one of the worst in the league is just nonsense to say, that he somehow kept us from knowing what AJ Green could have been. He was a 7x Pro Bowler, 2x 2nd Team All-Pro. A great-but-not-elite WR who could make spectacular catches but would drop a fair number of really easy ones, and struggled against physical press coverage.

Meanwhile Mixon has been subpar or bad in 6 of his 7 years and his yards after contact keeps dwindling even though his yards before contact have increased every year he's played for Taylor.

In 2018 Mixon averaged 2.7 yards before contact and 2.3 yards after contact.
In 2023 Mixon is averaging 2.5 yards before contact and 1.4 yards after contact.

Mixon's problems are the same they have been. He lacks good vision, lacks good balance, doesn't have that final breakaway gear to hit a homerun or get the outside edge, and way too much of the time he runs with the physicality of someone 30 pounds lighter

Well I understand statistically you have to start somewhere but I don't consider a throw of +21 air yards a "Deep throw". But I did always wonder when an announcer would say we were very good at "deep throws " now I know 21 yards or more. Is Dalton a bad QB? No. But he was not good at legitimately deep throws and if he was I think would've put green in that elite category you spoke of. 

My point on Mixon is whether or not 2018 was an anomaly or what happens if you make the run game a point of emphasis with him? I think its impossible to say because the run game has almost never been a point of emphasis with Zac. The 2nd half of 2019 maybe and guess what Mixon was the #2 back in the league. 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-19-2023, 07:42 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Well I understand statistically you have to start somewhere but I don't consider a throw of +21 air yards a "Deep throw". But I did always wonder when an announcer would say we were very good at "deep throws " now I know 21 yards or more. Is Dalton a bad QB? No. But he was not good at legitimately deep throws and if he was I think would've put green in that elite category you spoke of. 

My point on Mixon is whether or not 2018 was an anomaly or what happens if you make the run game a point of emphasis with him? I think its impossible to say because the run game has almost never been a point of emphasis with Zac. The 2nd half of 2019 maybe and guess what Mixon was the #2 back in the league. 

(Is given consensus, industry standard yardage for, "deep throw)"

"Well I don't agree with that, so my point still stands."

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-19-2023, 07:44 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: (Is given consensus, industry standard yardage for, "deep throw)"

"Well I don't agree with that, so my point still stands."

I guess I wasn't aware what constituted a "Deep throw". I mean when was the last time you watched a game and the announcer yelled "that ball went 25 yards in the air"? 

I mean sometimes you actually have to use your eyes. 

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(11-19-2023, 12:31 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: The thing about Benson in 09 that y'all are forgetting is we ran unbalanced lines a shit ton in order to run. You don't remember good ol Dennis Roland as the extra blocker? Benson ran hard, but it took six linemen to run the ball. I don't count Jeremy Hill's anamoly anymore. I've mentioned it a couple of times in other threads, but decided to quit because that's the only drop he ever pissed. We've sucked at running the football efficiently for well over a decade. 

That unbalanced line in front of Cedric Benson was good enough to sweep the AFC North in 2009.

[RunKijanaRun]

Bengals and possibly the Chiefs/Bills are the only teams in this league that cannot hope to compete if the starting QB goes down.

It’s partially a compliment to Burrow, but it’s more of an indictment of Lac and the offensive coaches.

The Bengals desperately need a new OC/playcaller. But we all knew that.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-19-2023, 08:21 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: That unbalanced line in front of Cedric Benson was good enough to sweep the AFC North in 2009.

It was, but the passing game wasn't much because of it. It was also the 24th ranked offense with a 4th ranked defense.

[Bronxbengal]

(11-17-2023, 11:49 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I am tremendously more humorous than you.  Out of the goodness of my heart, when I give you those ball lessons I'll toss in some juicy jokes you can tell your friends.

You are so funny! You don’t know shit about football only in your imagination. I will nominate Caesar for the armchair QB hall of fame, great in only his mind


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