If Burrow is out Zac will be exposed

[*jason*]

(11-21-2023, 09:20 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The Super Bowl? Last year’s AFC Championship?

Every divisional game this year?

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(11-21-2023, 09:22 PM)jason Wrote: Every divisional game this year?

…and the abysmal game against the Texans.

[Soonerpeace]

(11-21-2023, 04:35 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: We'll call 3 games .500 close enough for me. So if they win 3 games I'll never question Zac again. We'll call 2 games a wash and if they win 1 or fewer you admit Zac is a big part of the problem.

I’d need to see the injury situation. But if we’ve got decent health realizing all teams can be missing a few players I’d say 0 wins is an issue. 1 win okay 2 good job and 3 win’s excellent. That’s if we are underdogs all games. Personally I think the issue is Pollack. He’s not helping in the scheming. We’ve bolstered the line and the protection better but the run game sucks and it shouldn’t. Needed it bad when Joe was unhealthy early and more so now.

[Soonerpeace]

(11-21-2023, 09:20 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The Super Bowl? Last year’s AFC Championship?

The Super Bowl ? Seriously? We matched LAR offensively except we dealt with a Super Bowl record 7 sacks. Oh and we averaged more yards per play than LAR despite the 7 sacks. Or the AFC Championship? Well in 2022 we were slightly better on offense than KC. In 2023 KC was slightly better. They kicked a FG as the game ended.

[Soonerpeace]

(11-21-2023, 09:22 PM)jason Wrote: Every divisional game this year?

Well the first game Joe was completely immobile against the Browns. We’ve seen the difference if you want to hold the first game with Joe like that against Zac I can’t help you. The next divisional game we barely lost 27-24 with Joe still far from 100%. The last game vs Balt. we went up 10-7 when Joe got hurt. How about the SF game? We scored more points than any team this year easily? Last time I looked they are pretty good.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-21-2023, 09:38 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I’d need to see the injury situation. But if we’ve got decent health realizing all teams can be missing a few players I’d say 0 wins is an issue. 1 win okay 2 good job and 3 win’s excellent. That’s if we are underdogs all games. Personally I think the issue is Pollack. He’s not helping in the scheming. We’ve bolstered the line and the protection better but the run game sucks and it shouldn’t. Needed it bad when Joe was unhealthy early and more so now.

I'm not even so sure the run game has been that bad. The 49ers game you mentioned Mixon avg over 5 yards a carry. I should correct myself though and say I don't know if the run game is bad or it's there unwillingness to commit to it. Why do they absolutely refuse to use any other running back? We can't say it's because the other backs are no good because we haven't even seen them outside of a handful of carries. 

But to me it's not that the offense has failed us and at this point I'm not sure it would completely with a healthy Burrow. It's failures in situational football over the last few years and they're unwillingness to change the scheme a bit to take pressure off Burrow when the times have called for it. 

[Essex Johnson]

(11-21-2023, 04:42 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: So you think what would be a good finish is winning 3 games we are favored to lose?

So vegas decides games I thought teams do.

[Essex Johnson]

(11-21-2023, 04:46 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Not saying it wouldn't. All looked winnable with KC and the Browns as question marks. But if we could've beat KC we get the Browns at home to end.

And a few looked like games we could lose. No different than titans and texans looked winable but we lost.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-21-2023, 10:09 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Well the first game Joe was completely immobile against the Browns.  We’ve seen the difference if you want to hold the first game with Joe like that against Zac I can’t help you. The next divisional game we barely lost 27-24 with Joe still far from 100%. The last game vs Balt. we went up 10-7 when Joe got hurt. How about the SF game? We scored more points than any team this year easily? Last time I looked they are pretty good.

The 49ers game Burrow basically balled out he had 4 incompletions and Mixon had over 5 yards a carry. I'm not saying Zac doesn't deserve credit but he doesn't deserve all the credit. Then you mentioned the early games. Well we ran well in both our divisional games but he try and throw it all over the field with a less than 100% Joe Burrow. We are unwilling to focus on the run game even when you should to protect your injured QB.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-21-2023, 10:29 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: And a few looked like games we could lose. No different than titans and texans looked winable but we lost.

Okay you thought 5-2 and I thought I wouldn't be shocked if we won out. Either way it's a difference of 2 games. 

[Essex Johnson]

(11-21-2023, 06:29 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: No they haven’t. The defense has been terrible, particularly the DL. Hobby hasn’t developed a single one of the pass rushers (Murphy - 1st round, Ossai - 3rd round, Carter - 3rd round). Cam Sample is probably the best of the bunch, and he’s the definition of JAG.

And the run defense is even worse.

Talking offense  in that discussion  thread besides all teams have ups and downs each year in areas but over time our oline has been consistently the weakness of any group. 

[Essex Johnson]

(11-21-2023, 10:32 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Okay you thought 5-2 and I thought I wouldn't be shocked if we won out. Either way it's a difference of 2 games. 

And I be shocked if we did win out, 

[sandwedge]

(11-17-2023, 11:11 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Am I the only one that doesn't think this offense is a complete disaster?

They were a top 5 passing unit last year and have looked pretty good in the games Joe has been healthy. They actually moved the ball pretty well last night but stalled when they got past the 40 yard line for one reason or another (Boyd drop, Burrow sacked). The Ravens punted just as much as the Bengals.

To me, the offensive lapses come down to guys not executing. Whether it's penalties, offensive line issues, or drops. I know that's not as sexy of an answer as "the play calling sucks!", but you need to look at each drive in the context of WHY it failed.

To fix the offense I think its imperitive to FINALLY sure up this offensive line in the off-season and to REALLY take a hard look at the running game - they need more out of it. If you can significantly improve upon those things I think this offense goes to the level that everyone wants it to go to.

One of the few with a brain, Spot on Weezy

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-21-2023, 10:38 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: And I be shocked if we did win out, 

Okay you said 5-2 but you would be shocked if we won a total 2 more games. I'm on board I've now changed my prediction in a world where Burrow didn't get hurt to 5-2.

[*Nately120*]

(11-21-2023, 10:09 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Well the first game Joe was completely immobile against the Browns.  We’ve seen the difference if you want to hold the first game with Joe like that against Zac I can’t help you. 

It could be argued that Burrow shouldn't have been on the field during that game.  It's ZT's job to sit down a starter who is clearly playing at a fraction of his capability and get a backup QB up to the task of giving the team a shot of winning.  If everyone from Burrow on down in the locker room loves ZT as much as we think, he should have been able to do the hard but right thing and keep Burrow off the field without Burrow demanding a trade or the locker room going full mutiny.

I hazard to guess that Burrow is so ultra competitive that he's going to put himself in situations where he shouldn't be playing in the future and it is up to ZT to stand up to him for his own good and the good of the team.

[Soonerpeace]

(11-21-2023, 10:31 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: The 49ers game Burrow basically balled out he had 4 incompletions and Mixon had over 5 yards a carry. I'm not saying Zac doesn't deserve credit but he doesn't deserve all the credit. Then you mentioned the early games. Well we ran well in both our divisional games but he try and throw it all over the field with a less than 100% Joe Burrow. We are unwilling to focus on the run game even when you should to protect your injured QB.

Same old same old when SF a really damn good defense gives up the most this season and only Philly, Raiders, and KC have scored more in 2 years. The credit goes to Joe and not the coaches. You think Joe does the game plan? Hey I’m in total agreement on the run game it sucks and Zac deserves part of the responsibility.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-21-2023, 11:37 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Same old same old when SF a really damn good defense gives up the most this season and only Philly, Raiders, and KC have scored more in 2 years. The credit goes to Joe and not the coaches. You think Joe does the game plan? Hey I’m in total agreement on the run game it sucks and Zac deserves part of the responsibility.

I did literally say Zac deserves credit just not all the credit. Perhaps these next 7 weeks will tell how much credit goes where.

[Soonerpeace]

(11-21-2023, 10:52 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It could be argued that Burrow shouldn't have been on the field during that game.  It's ZT's job to sit down a starter who is clearly playing at a fraction of his capability and get a backup QB up to the task of giving the team a shot of winning.  If everyone from Burrow on down in the locker room loves ZT as much as we think, he should have been able to do the hard but right thing and keep Burrow off the field without Burrow demanding a trade or the locker room going full mutiny.

I hazard to guess that Burrow is so ultra competitive that he's going to put himself in situations where he shouldn't be playing in the future and it is up to ZT to stand up to him for his own good and the good of the team.

I agree and frankly it falls back on their misguided propensity to have as backups players w/o a lick of ability but they know the system. Look at Baker Mayfield’s first game as a Ram and Dobbs first game with the Vikings. It’s failed logic.

[Soonerpeace]

(11-21-2023, 11:39 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I did literally say Zac deserves credit just not all the credit. Perhaps these next 7 weeks will tell how much credit goes where.

But look through this thread Zac gets the blame post after post. And I’ve never said he was Bill Walsh. But he’s won 5-2 in the playoffs. Against KC, SF, and Buffalo he’s 7-1 the last 2 years.

[*Go Cards*]

Think Zac is a very good HC, yet not a good OC, imho.

He should just stick with what he is good at, HC pay$ better anyhow lol.