Burrow's surgery

[KillerGoose]

Glad to hear the surgery went well. I can’t help but think of some of the discussion prior to the season. There was a vocal minority saying that they believed Burrow was going to take a discount on his contract, and some of that group believed that he should.

This should make it easy to understand why virtually no one ever does that. These major injuries come out of nowhere.

[casear2727]

(11-27-2023, 11:39 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Glad to hear the surgery went well. I can’t help but think of some of the discussion prior to the season. There was a vocal minority saying that they believed Burrow was going to take a discount on his contract, and some of that group believed that he should.

This should make it easy to understand why virtually no one ever does that.  These major injuries come out of nowhere.

Yep, because who could live on 240M?   He has to feed his family.  

[Whatever]

(11-27-2023, 11:39 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Glad to hear the surgery went well. I can’t help but think of some of the discussion prior to the season. There was a vocal minority saying that they believed Burrow was going to take a discount on his contract, and some of that group believed that he should.

This should make it easy to understand why virtually no one ever does that.  These major injuries come out of nowhere.

Pressure from agents and the NFLPA is also a big factor.

From a structure standpoint, Joe has a pretty manageable cap hit through '27 and he will likely get an extension to tear up the final two years of his current deal.  

[KillerGoose]

(11-27-2023, 11:55 PM)Whatever Wrote: Pressure from agents and the NFLPA is also a big factor.

From a structure standpoint, Joe has a pretty manageable cap hit through '27 and he will likely get an extension to tear up the final two years of his current deal.  

Yep, it’s always the structure of the contract that provides the flexibility or friendliness.

[*bfine32*]

(11-27-2023, 10:45 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Glass houses. We still employ Joe Mixon.

Dude you balked on the Homer-Burrow comparison but compare what Mixon did to what Carter did? 

(11-27-2023, 11:11 PM)casear2727 Wrote: We drafted a guy that broke a girls face on camera. The same guy has been accused of being involved in other issues, including weapons.  Come on now, I'm not saying we have to pick up criminals but we dont make moves like them.

Eagles traded for AJ Brown, they make moves on draft day, they try to improve their rosters at the trade deadline.  We are the most pathetic in terms of creativity.  We did ok with some free agents.  Most importantly, there is no comparison when discussing our O & D lines and Philly's......

NO ONE has been more critical in Mixon's drafting/retention than I. I'm not suggesting our FO is as "good" as Philly's. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-28-2023, 12:22 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Dude you balked on the Homer-Burrow comparison but compare what Mixon did to what Carter did? 

I was merely pointing out that we have a guy with some pretty serious character issues of his own currently serving as a team captain.

Mixon has broken a woman’s face, threatened another with a gun over road rage, and let the type of people that shoot at children stay at his house. Seems fair to bring up when talking about teams valuing character.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-27-2023, 07:42 PM)Chezaugie Wrote: Maybe you should research the history. Bailey pitched a no-hitter at age 24 and is only one of seven pitchers in the history of the MLB to pitch 2 no-hitters. Considered to be a young elite pitcher the Reds signed him to a $100 million + contract. He then fell apart physically making the contract one of the worst of all time. Starting to see any similarities?

Of course, you may prefer to use the Andrew Luck comparison.

1. No hitters are actually VERY common. It's still a feat, no doubt, but it's the most-common, "unusual," feat in the game (322) after 3 HRs in a game (480 all-time).
2. You Reds fans know your stuff, but you guys know SO LITTLE outside the city of Cincinnati (not starting up the Pete Rose discussion again).
3. Homer Bailey, for a Bengals comparison, I would say is Kitna

Burrow is better than any Reds pitcher, post-dead-ball: I'd put Rijo as the closest thing, but Burrow at 4 years into his career, is past what Rijo did after 10 years.

Oh yeah, Aaron Harang can pitch circles around Homer Bailey.

[*bfine32*]

(11-28-2023, 01:22 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I was merely pointing out that we have a guy with some pretty serious character issues of his own currently serving as a team captain.

Mixon has broken a woman’s face, threatened another with a gun over road rage, and let the type of people that shoot at children stay at his house. Seems fair to bring up when talking about teams valuing character.

Of course, it's fair to bring up (although the road rage is unfounded); I just found it ironic you balked at the Homer Bailey comparison (highly drafted prospect, performed well, got lucrative contract, got hurt) while trotting out that one. 

[casear2727]

(11-28-2023, 02:32 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: 1. No hitters are actually VERY common. It's still a feat, no doubt, but it's the most-common, "unusual," feat in the game (322) after 3 HRs in a game (480 all-time).
2. You Reds fans know your stuff, but you guys know SO LITTLE outside the city of Cincinnati (not starting up the Pete Rose discussion again).
3. Homer Bailey, for a Bengals comparison, I would say is Kitna

Burrow is better than any Reds pitcher, post-dead-ball: I'd put Rijo as the closest thing, but Burrow at 4 years into his career, is past what Rijo did after 10 years.

Oh yeah, Aaron Harang can pitch circles around Homer Bailey.

Do we seriously have a Homer Bailey and Aaron fcking Harang debate going on here?    Where's my popcorn?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-28-2023, 02:43 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course, it's fair to bring up (although the road rage is unfounded); I just found it ironic you balked at the Homer Bailey comparison (highly drafted prospect, performed well, got lucrative contract, got hurt) while trotting out that one. 

See Truck’s post above (he’s a HUGE baseball guy) I’m not the only one to call out that comparison for being way off.

As for bringing up Mixon? It’s only fair. He’s obviously the first thing an opposing fanbase is going to throw back at us if we start going on about character.

[*bfine32*]

(11-28-2023, 02:54 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Do we seriously have a Homer Bailey and Aaron fcking Harang debate going on here?    Where's my popcorn?

It appears Truck and Nic were making comparisons merely to talent. I viewed the comparison to the situation.

[*bfine32*]

(11-28-2023, 02:56 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: See Truck’s post above (he’s a HUGE baseball guy) I’m not the only one to call out that comparison for being way off.

As for bringing up Mixon? It’s only fair. He’s obviously the first thing an opposing fanbase is going to throw back at us if we start going on about character.

It seems Truck was only comparing talent; yet,  I viewed it more as a comparison of circumstances (listed above). Were you comparing talent levels when comparing Mixon to Carter as was Truck or circumstance as was I?  

[casear2727]

(11-28-2023, 03:03 AM)bfine32 Wrote: It seems Truck was only comparing talent; yet,  I viewed it more as a comparison of circumstances (listed above). Were you comparing talent levels when comparing Mixon to Carter as was Truck or circumstance as was I?  

They could be comparing the level of talent it took in those circumstances.

[*bfine32*]

(11-28-2023, 02:32 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: 1. No hitters are actually VERY common. It's still a feat, no doubt, but it's the most-common, "unusual," feat in the game (322) after 3 HRs in a game (480 all-time).
2. You Reds fans know your stuff, but you guys know SO LITTLE outside the city of Cincinnati (not starting up the Pete Rose discussion again).
3. Homer Bailey, for a Bengals comparison, I would say is Kitna

Burrow is better than any Reds pitcher, post-dead-ball: I'd put Rijo as the closest thing, but Burrow at 4 years into his career, is past what Rijo did after 10 years.

Oh yeah, Aaron Harang can pitch circles around Homer Bailey.

The dude brought up Homer Bailey as a comparison for other reasons than talent. 

FWIW Burrow is NOT better than any Red's pitcher, post-dead-ball. Dude hasn't played competitive baseball since peewee

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-28-2023, 02:54 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Do we seriously have a Homer Bailey and Aaron fcking Harang debate going on here?    Where's my popcorn?

The Braves have been my 1B team, basically since I was like 5 ('94) and they were probably my 1A team from '99-'01 (but I don't like to admit that ), so when Harang had his final good season with the Braves, I was over the moon: I ALWAYS liked Harang, felt he never got his due because he was on lowlyish Red teams, while Brandon Webb was scooping up wins like nobody's business and completely overshadowing what Harang was doing on worse teams.

Anyways, I'm rambling lol

[casear2727]

This conversation is so disingenuous due to the lack of any mention of Tom Seaver or Bucky Walters.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-27-2023, 07:42 PM)Chezaugie Wrote: Maybe you should research the history. Bailey pitched a no-hitter at age 24 and is only one of seven pitchers in the history of the MLB to pitch 2 no-hitters. Considered to be a young elite pitcher the Reds signed him to a $100 million + contract. He then fell apart physically making the contract one of the worst of all time. Starting to see any similarities?

Of course, you may prefer to use the Andrew Luck comparison.

Lol, you need to research the history. No. He didn't. His no hitters were in 2012 (his age 26 season) and 2013 (his age 27 season). 

A simple search shows that there have been 35 pitchers who have thrown multiple no hitters...
https://www.mlb.com/news/pitchers-with-multiple-no-hitters
https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/the_35_pitchers_who_have_thrown_multiple_no_hitters_112423/s1__34819694

He was also never considered elite. When he was extended, he was a 0x All-Star, had never gotten a single Cy Young or MVP vote of any placing, and he had a career 95 ERA+ meaning even once compensating for ballpark differences, he was 5% below league average. Not even average.


- - - - - -

Nearly zero things presented as facts in your post were true.

[Bengalbug]

While we are discussing other Cincy sports in this JOE B thread… we have an MVP in Cincy…. Acosta!!

FCC, FCC, FCC!

We wouldn’t have heard anything else, but glad the surgery was a “success”.

[Chezaugie]

[quote='TheLeonardLeap' pid='1427825' dateline='1701163943']

Lol, you need to research the history. No. He didn't. His no hitters were in 2012 (his age 26 season) and 2013 (his age 27 season). 

A simple search shows that there have been 35 pitchers who have thrown multiple no hitters...
https://www.mlb.com/news/pitchers-with-multiple-no-hitters
https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/the_35_pitchers_who_have_thrown_multiple_no_hitters_112423/s1__34819694

He was also never considered elite. When he was extended, he was a 0x All-Star, had never gotten a single Cy Young or MVP vote of any placing, and he had a career 95 ERA+ meaning even once compensating for ballpark differences, he was 5% below league average. Not even average.


- - - - - -

Nearly zero things presented as facts in your post were true.



Sorry LL, my math was incorrect (thought he was born in 1988) however, there were many opinions, in HIS time, that Homer was an "ace." Here is one such article comparing him to Nolan Ryan. It all boils down to one's opinion. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1692425-is-homer-baileys-second-no-hitter-proof-hes-an-elite-pitcher-in-mlb

As stated above by others, Homer's situation is eerily similar to Burrow's at this point; Highly touted prospect, early success, huge contract, severe injury/injuries. That is my point, not a comparison of talent.

[Tomkat]

(11-27-2023, 08:06 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: but again injuries this year have little to nothing to do with the Oline...we can debate pass/run but that discussion is not relative to this year injuries. He hurt his calf on his own in preseason, wrist in just playing the game and was healthy

He injured his wrist the play BEFORE it "popped" because he was insta-mauled by Jadaveon Clowney thanks to the shitty O-line.