"Tanking" in the NFL

[Bing Ghuls]

In baseball or basketball players can get by without maximum effort when they have to play a month or two of meaningless games, but in the NFL they have to be going 100% every play or else they will get embarrassed. NFL players bust their asses all year round and risk their health to play these games. There is no way any of them are going to "tank" anything.

Coaches can start giving backups more playing time, but again, it is hard to explain to a veteran who has worked so hard and dedicated so much that he will be losing playing time to an inferior player just so the team can "take a look" at him.

If the trade deadline had not passed the front office could start trading current starters for draft picks or they could release high priced starters, but we are not in a "re-build" mode so this won't happen.

As a fan I can't watch a Bengal game without cheering for them to win. In the situation we are in right now the losses are not quite as painful to deal with, but I still really hate to watch the Bengals lose.

Basically I don't want us to "tank', and I am pretty sure none of the players are "tanking". But if we do lose I can deal with it a little better because this season is lost.

[*michaelsean*]

Nobody is tanking as in losing on purpose. It just so happens that when you build your team around your QB and he gets hurt, you are going to lose most of your games. The Miami game is the only game I rooted for them to lose.

[Millhouse]

It's also difficult to sit a vet or limit their playing time when there are incentives in their contracts. Imagine being told we need to play a younger guy to give him experience, but you probably won't hit that 'mark' to make an extra million or two. I'm going to assume that doesn't resonate well with players, and doesn't make it easier to bring in free agents either.

[*jason*]

Tanking is organizational... It's not the players.

[*Nately120*]

(12-03-2023, 02:09 PM)jason Wrote: Tanking is organizational... It's not the players.

Basically.  We aren't losing on purpose, we just have a franchise that is completely screwed if one player gets hurt and he got hurt.  As I've said a bunch of times, as long as Burrow gets hurt really bad this won't bite us in the arse, but if Burrow is out for a week or 2 and we need to keep our season alive until Burrow is back THEN we may feel the pain of having no plan B.

The fact that a 25% Burrow started this season rather than our geeeenius coaching staff and ultra awesome new culture using the entire "lost" preseason to get a backup QB and system ready to hold down the fort, says a lot.  

[Essex Johnson]

(12-03-2023, 02:09 PM)jason Wrote: Tanking is organizational... It's not the players.

Agree as a whole and  never seen the bengals organization  tank , hell they almost won last game  in 2019 that would have cost us Burrow

[depthchart]

(12-03-2023, 02:09 PM)jason Wrote: Tanking is organizational... It's not the players.

It could also possibly be more Owner driven. A controlling Owner versus a more hands off Owner. 
General Managers & Coaches want to keep their jobs and proving they can win at least some games without a Star like Burrow may help them do that. A hands off Owner will give more Power to these General Managers & Coaches but a Controlling Owner may see long term opportunities in higher Draft picks through Tanking. 

It could also possibly be more need for a Franchise QB driven. If a Team already has their Franchise QB then they may not have as much to gain by Tanking but if a Team could Tank from say a 10th overall pick up to a Top 1 or 2 pick they could end up Drafting their Franchise QB by Tanking.

With the way the NFL follows injury reports due to Sports Gambling; Teams likely have to find a way to Tank without looking like they are Tanking -or- Publicly give strong reasons for start and sit decisions or in game strategy decisions for example (strangely going for it on 4th down etc)

[*Synric*]

All I know is that Marvin Harrison Jr. Is a Cardinals fan right now. He's hoping they get a couple more wins.

[*michaelsean*]

(12-03-2023, 05:41 PM)Synric Wrote: All I know is that Marvin Harrison Jr. Is a Cardinals fan right now. He's hoping they get a couple more wins.

Carolina and the Giants aren’t a much better option, but that’s how it goes. Maybe if the Bengals lose the rest of their games they can trade up with their first and second.

[*Synric*]

(12-03-2023, 06:01 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Carolina and the Giants aren’t a much better option, but that’s how it goes. Maybe if the Bengals lose the rest of their games they can trade up with their first and second.

Cardinal's organization is like the Bengals pre 2015 when they had to rotate position groups into the weight room.

[Destro]

Who was that interim coach who got the boot when he won when people thought they should be tanking?

[*Nately120*]

(12-03-2023, 06:01 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Carolina and the Giants aren’t a much better option, but that’s how it goes. Maybe if the Bengals lose the rest of their games they can trade up with their first and second.

Or the Bears could take him at #1.

[*michaelsean*]

(12-03-2023, 06:44 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Or the Bears could take him at #1.

Oh yeah I knew I was forgetting someone.

[*Nately120*]

(12-03-2023, 06:51 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Oh yeah I knew I was forgetting someone.

They have Carolina's pick, so the Panthers got rid of DJ Moore and Christian McCaffrey and they're going to miss out on Marvin Harrison Jr.  What a drag for them, ouch.

Speaking of tanking, here comes the Steelers' collapse, right?  They need to get to 9-8 to keep Tomlin's streak alive.

[*michaelsean*]

(12-03-2023, 07:05 PM)Nately120 Wrote: They have Carolina's pick, so the Panthers got rid of DJ Moore and Christian McCaffrey and they're going to miss out on Marvin Harrison Jr.  What a drag for them, ouch.

Speaking of tanking, here comes the Steelers' collapse, right?  They need to get to 9-8 to keep Tomlin's streak alive.

I didn’t know that. So Chicago has a shot at the first two picks?

[*Nately120*]

(12-03-2023, 07:52 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I didn’t know that. So Chicago has a shot at the first two picks?

That they do, as it stands the Panther's pick is #1 overall and their own pick is pretty high, too.  I used to live in Chicago so I've half paid attention to them as an NFC team, but they've just been so consistently bleh that it doesn't pay off, they aren't even interestingly bad.  I think they should build around Fields rather than draft Caleb Williams, though.  

Fields plus DJ Moore and Marvin Harrison Jr. on offense plus what they can get from trading down with the 2nd pick in the first would be better than using the #1 pick on Williams and then just putting him in the same situation Fields is in now minus MH Jr.

Or, the Bears could take Williams and when he's as disappointing as every other QB they've had in the past 30 years they can finally just give up and be sent to the XFL.


EDIT - Chicago is at 1st and 5th right now.  NE and AZ and Washington are above them at the moment.  NE is going to be hard to catch in the tankathon, they're ultra bad.  I will say if the Bears take MH Jr at #1 and the Patriots take Caleb Williams things have a potential to get interesting in NE again.  Weird to think they are in a position to ignore the Mac Jones era by going from Brady to a 1st off the board QB.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-03-2023, 10:39 PM)Nately120 Wrote: That they do, as it stands the Panther's pick is #1 overall and their own pick is pretty high, too.  I used to live in Chicago so I've half paid attention to them as an NFC team, but they've just been so consistently bleh that it doesn't pay off, they aren't even interestingly bad.  I think they should build around Fields rather than draft Caleb Williams, though.  

Fields plus DJ Moore and Marvin Harrison Jr. on offense plus what they can get from trading down with the 2nd pick in the first would be better than using the #1 pick on Williams and then just putting him in the same situation Fields is in now minus MH Jr.

Or, the Bears could take Williams and when he's as disappointing as every other QB they've had in the past 30 years they can finally just give up and be sent to the XFL.


EDIT - Chicago is at 1st and 5th right now.  NE and AZ and Washington are above them at the moment.  NE is going to be hard to catch in the tankathon, they're ultra bad.  I will say if the Bears take MH Jr at #1 and the Patriots take Caleb Williams things have a potential to get interesting in NE again.  Weird to think they are in a position to ignore the Mac Jones era by going from Brady to a 1st off the board QB.

Fields stinks. Building around him by getting him a second #1 WR to go with his $12.5m/yr TE, is not going to work well because he'll never be able to feed them all and it'll lead to locker room issues. 

They should have traded him off to someone who still believed in him last offseason to recoup some value and drafted Stroud. Now they should just take Williams and build around him, because after this year you'd have to pick up Fields' 5th year option at $23.25m and he's eligible for an extension. 

Don't Daniel Jones yourself, though at least Jones won a bit. It doesn't matter how bad your supporting staff is, if you're 3 years in and you've never won more than 3 games in a season (just assuming the Bears won't finish 2-3 or better), you're not the future. He'll probably be 8-30 after this season, assuming he doesn't get hurt again (missed multiple games every season and rushing 10 times per game won't help that).

[Bengal Dude]

(12-03-2023, 02:09 PM)jason Wrote: Tanking is organizational... It's not the players.

Exactly. No coach or player will ever tank. The FO is the one who steps in and forces tanking.

[Bengalstripes9]

Tanking is having Zac coach the team with a middle of the pack qb (Dalton) or worse. At least until his record improves in those games.

..
I continue to say negative things about the team. But I’m just being honest with myself about what I have witnessed. I’m trying to be unbiased. Fans need to do this. The more the bengals players and coaches hear this the more they have to prove that it isn’t the case. So I encourage everyone to let them have it!

I used to be more biased during the Marvin Lewis years. I hung on to hope that we would make it over the hump and the coaches and players could get it done if things fell into place. Then I learned Palmer wasn’t that good and the coaching wasn’t that good. We were above average but not elite. That’s where we’re at right now—except, I believe burrow and chase are elite talents. I believe in a lot of the players on the team. I believe in Lou. I need Zac to show me something so I can believe in him. Because at the moment he doesn’t scream elite coach to me. His concepts don’t scream elite to me. I’m not wowed by his scheme. I want to be. But I’m not. He needs to evolve.

[guyofthetiger]

I don't think the Bengals would even consider tanking this season. I feel they want to win all the remaining games. Heck, we still are in the playoff contention even at 5-6.