The underlying truth of the matter.....

[Sled21]

Burrow went down and Browning came in, and the team has put up over 30 points in each of the last two weeks. The running game is now seemingly working, although neither Jax nor Indy are particularly good against the run. Some people are saying they changed the scheme (they didn't). Browning is definitely not better, or even in the same category, with Burrow. So, what is it?

Notice when Browning went out with this thumb cramp, what did McCarron do? He came in and threw a touchdown pass to Higgins.

The simple fact of the matter is really just that Zac and Duke have put together a really good football team from the top of the roster to the bottom. Vets are out there hustling and not mailing it in, rookies are playing their asses off and shining. The team supports each other and no personality clashes, no divas, no drama. Heck, DJ Turner was wearing neon green cleats that supported Mike Thomas' charity during the "My cleats, my cause" game. This is just a really good football team that is really well coached. They are going to be good for a long time with as young as they are.

[NUGDUKWE]

(12-11-2023, 01:35 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Burrow went down and Browning came in, and the team has put up over 30 points in each of the last two weeks. The running game is now seemingly working, although neither Jax nor Indy are particularly good against the run. Some people are saying they changed the scheme (they didn't). Browning is definitely not better, or even in the same category, with Burrow. So, what is it?

Notice when Browning went out with this thumb cramp, what did McCarron do? He came in and threw a touchdown pass to Higgins.

The simple fact of the matter is really just that Zac and Duke have put together a really good football team from the top of the roster to the bottom. Vets are out there hustling and not mailing it in, rookies are playing their asses off and shining. The team supports each other and no personality clashes, no divas, no drama. Heck, DJ Turner was wearing neon green cleats that supported Mike Thomas' charity during the "My cleats, my cause" game. This is just a really good football team that is really well coached. They are going to be good for a long time with as young as they are.

They did change the scheme though. Or atleast what they are asking Browning to do in that scheme. Browning was or is just not gonna sit back in empty and read the defense and deliver the ball like Burrow did. Alot more play action, under center plays, misdirection and roll outs where you cut the field in half and give him less reads no more empty sets. I think we all have to agree that the coaching has been really good and the changes that they've made have seemed to be helping the whole team and not just Browning.

[WeezyBengal]

(12-11-2023, 01:35 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Burrow went down and Browning came in, and the team has put up over 30 points in each of the last two weeks. The running game is now seemingly working, although neither Jax nor Indy are particularly good against the run. Some people are saying they changed the scheme (they didn't). Browning is definitely not better, or even in the same category, with Burrow. So, what is it?

Notice when Browning went out with this thumb cramp, what did McCarron do? He came in and threw a touchdown pass to Higgins.

The simple fact of the matter is really just that Zac and Duke have put together a really good football team from the top of the roster to the bottom. Vets are out there hustling and not mailing it in, rookies are playing their asses off and shining. The team supports each other and no personality clashes, no divas, no drama. Heck, DJ Turner was wearing neon green cleats that supported Mike Thomas' charity during the "My cleats, my cause" game. This is just a really good football team that is really well coached. They are going to be good for a long time with as young as they are.

Yep. 

Really hope Joe makes a full recovery from his injury. If he comes back to who he was and the incorporate some of the stuff they are doing with Browning...watch out. 

[NUGDUKWE]

I hate conspiracy theories generally. But the I don't buy Zac Taylor as a play caller in me has a bit of a conspiracy for our recent success. Maybe Taylor isn't calling the plays or has been given the plays he can chose from. We had 10 days before the Steelers game yet we didn't see any of these changes. After that game sure you had tape and a whole game experience to say what Browning could and couldn't do. But he's been here all camp and season so we really had no idea what he was or wasn't capable of? Seems odd then with the quick turn around. Then someone in the organization said we are pulling this from you but we'll let you save face and not say anything public. We'll even let you design a couple of trick plays. Then we all saw how that turned out and even that got taken from him. I am mostly kidding. But this is why I don't like the committee approach. I get it that if things are going good why does it matter but we honestly don't know if there is an x factor to recent coaching/playcalling changes.

[Brownshoe]

Yeah, we didn't change the scheme at all.... we didn't just run 30+ times the last two games to open up the passing game. We didn't just play under center way more to help the OL. We didn't change anything.

[Nepa]

(12-11-2023, 01:35 PM)Sled21 Wrote: ****

The simple fact of the matter is really just that Zac and Duke have put together a really good football team from the top of the roster to the bottom. Vets are out there hustling and not mailing it in, rookies are playing their asses off and shining. The team supports each other and no personality clashes, no divas, no drama. Heck, DJ Turner was wearing neon green cleats that supported Mike Thomas' charity during the "My cleats, my cause" game. This is just a really good football team that is really well coached. They are going to be good for a long time with as young as they are.

Well said, my friend. Well said.

[007BengalsFan]

(12-11-2023, 02:06 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Yeah, we didn't change the scheme at all.... we didn't just run 30+ times the last two games to open up the passing game. We didn't just play under center way more to help the OL. We didn't change anything.

I dont understand people claiming the offense hasnt changed either.  When you change from playing out of the shotgun 99% of the time to under center and  when you change from a predominate pass attack to a more balanced run vs pass approach, you are changing the way the offense is being operated.

[007BengalsFan]

The Bengals offense has not played a defense like Baltimore or Cleveland the last couple of weeks. Its easier to have a more balanced run vs pass offense when the defenses are not good enough to make a team one dimensional.

Neither the Vikings or Steelers have great defenses this year so the next couple of weeks wont tell us anything either. The last two games of the season are KC and Cleveland which should tell you more where this offense stands.

[NUGDUKWE]

(12-11-2023, 02:22 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I dont understand people claiming the offense hasnt changed either.  When you change from playing out of the shotgun 99% of the time to under center and  when you change from a predominate pass attack to a more balanced run vs pass approach, you are changing the way the offense is being operated.

Yeah there's no harm in saying we made a change. Your saying the coaches and players are good. The coaches made tweaks that are helping the team and the players still have to be good and play well to make it function. All around good to see and fun to watch.

[Millhouse]

It's a small sample size, but the plays that end up being used at the snap have been the best ones I've seen all season in my opinion. Granted it helps having Chase Brown making plays too, he definitely has some wheels. But generally speaking it just looks like a smoother offense with the 'eye test'.

But this offense is currently at a pretty high level without Burrow. And Burrow is a much better QB than Browning, but the offense hasn't dropped off a lot. So what that tells me is maybe there is something the Bengals need to look at to maximize the offense next year with Burrow. Maybe Burrow has too much say in what plays are being called at the los? Is that a fair question to be asked or not? I think it is, because as much of a fan of Joe, I don't know if he is at a big brain Peyton Manning later years level. Anyways just stuff I hope the Bengals coaches consider.

[grampahol]

No knock on Jake, but nobody really had much film on him outside of college and hs..He's definitely benefited from that. We'll see where things go from here on out  The more he plays the more experienced he'll get and the more film teams have to game plan for him.. I'll be rooting for him..  

[SunsetBengal]

(12-11-2023, 03:12 PM)Millhouse Wrote: It's a small sample size, but the plays that end up being used at the snap have been the best ones I've seen all season in my opinion. Granted it helps having Chase Brown making plays too, he definitely has some wheels. But generally speaking it just looks like a smoother offense with the 'eye test'.

But this offense is currently at a pretty high level without Burrow. And Burrow is a much better QB than Browning, but the offense hasn't dropped off a lot. So what that tells me is maybe there is something the Bengals need to look at to maximize the offense next year with Burrow. Maybe Burrow has too much say in what plays are being called at the los? Is that a fair question to be asked or not? I think it is, because as much of a fan of Joe, I don't know if he is at a big brain Peyton Manning later years level. Anyways just stuff I hope the Bengals coaches consider.

Dropped off?  The past two games they are averaging over 10 points/game more than the season average.

While Joe Burrow certainly merits the freedom to change the call at the line, it shouldn't be a free pass to line up in the same formation and call routes at the line most every play.  At some point he simply must allow the rest of his team to contribute as well.  As that is the key difference in the past two weeks and what was going on up to the point of Joe's wrist injury is that Browning is running the plays as called and now the RBs and TEs have a greater role, and it's paying off in both moving the ball and scoring points.

[3wt]

(12-11-2023, 01:35 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Burrow went down and Browning came in, and the team has put up over 30 points in each of the last two weeks. The running game is now seemingly working, although neither Jax nor Indy are particularly good against the run. Some people are saying they changed the scheme (they didn't). Browning is definitely not better, or even in the same category, with Burrow. So, what is it?

Notice when Browning went out with this thumb cramp, what did McCarron do? He came in and threw a touchdown pass to Higgins.

The simple fact of the matter is really just that Zac and Duke have put together a really good football team from the top of the roster to the bottom. Vets are out there hustling and not mailing it in, rookies are playing their asses off and shining. The team supports each other and no personality clashes, no divas, no drama. Heck, DJ Turner was wearing neon green cleats that supported Mike Thomas' charity during the "My cleats, my cause" game. This is just a really good football team that is really well coached. They are going to be good for a long time with as young as they are.

Yep.   This was what I was hoping for: a team that has substance beyond its franchise QB and at team that will not mail it in and will work to grow.  I'm hoping the growth - particularly of the young guns - ushers them into a higher level of play when Burrow returns.

Good post

[Mickeypoo]

(12-11-2023, 03:12 PM)Millhouse Wrote: It's a small sample size, but the plays that end up being used at the snap have been the best ones I've seen all season in my opinion. Granted it helps having Chase Brown making plays too, he definitely has some wheels. But generally speaking it just looks like a smoother offense with the 'eye test'.

But this offense is currently at a pretty high level without Burrow. And Burrow is a much better QB than Browning, but the offense hasn't dropped off a lot. So what that tells me is maybe there is something the Bengals need to look at to maximize the offense next year with Burrow. Maybe Burrow has too much say in what plays are being called at the los? Is that a fair question to be asked or not? I think it is, because as much of a fan of Joe, I don't know if he is at a big brain Peyton Manning later years level. Anyways just stuff I hope the Bengals coaches consider.

I know very little about the X's and O's.  But I totally agree with you.  These last 2 weeks is what I expect out of a Joe Burrow Bengals with all this talent.  There is just too much talent to look like what we have looked like.

Even last year I remember thinking why are we so stagnant on O with all this talent.  Something is different.  This is the O I expect with the players we have.

I have no idea what changed, but this O, at least the last 2 games, is a lot more representative, imo, of the talent we have.

I couldn't care less if we win with Burrow, Browning or someone's Aunt Betty.  I just want wins and I want to see a Superbowl victory in my lifetime.

Maybe Browning is the next Brock Purdy or maybe he goes down in flames next week and it all falls apart.  I am really hoping this success continues.  This O has been fun and exciting and the players look jacked up.

[ezekiel23]

(12-11-2023, 01:35 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Burrow went down and Browning came in, and the team has put up over 30 points in each of the last two weeks. The running game is now seemingly working, although neither Jax nor Indy are particularly good against the run. Some people are saying they changed the scheme (they didn't). Browning is definitely not better, or even in the same category, with Burrow. So, what is it?

Notice when Browning went out with this thumb cramp, what did McCarron do? He came in and threw a touchdown pass to Higgins.

The simple fact of the matter is really just that Zac and Duke have put together a really good football team from the top of the roster to the bottom. Vets are out there hustling and not mailing it in, rookies are playing their asses off and shining. The team supports each other and no personality clashes, no divas, no drama. Heck, DJ Turner was wearing neon green cleats that supported Mike Thomas' charity during the "My cleats, my cause" game. This is just a really good football team that is really well coached. They are going to be good for a long time with as young as they are.

That’s a good analogy of the condition of this team at this present time.I couldn’t agree more.

Now,I know we have a tough schedule moving forward,but,ther are also a few other things that make me a little more optimistic as we approach the playoffs.


Two of them are Chase Brown and Tanner Hudson.These guys have really stepped up and are contributing.

Add to that the fact that the OL is definitely getting better,and contributing to an improved running game.

[Millhouse]

(12-11-2023, 03:32 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Dropped off?  The past two games they are averaging over 10 points/game more than the season average.

While Joe Burrow certainly merits the freedom to change the call at the line, it shouldn't be a free pass to line up in the same formation and call routes at the line most every play.  At some point he simply must allow the rest of his team to contribute as well.  As that is the key difference in the past two weeks and what was going on up to the point of Joe's wrist injury is that Browning is running the plays as called and now the RBs and TEs have a greater role, and it's paying off in both moving the ball and scoring points.

Yeah what I meant by that is because Burrow is a much better QB (imo), the offense didn't drop off these last two weeks. In theory a drop off at QB should result in a drop off in offensive production, but it hasn't. And as you pointed at, it actually has been better generally speaking. So what gives on this? I have a possible theory that something had to be holding the offense back from its full potential. The problem is we are looking in from the outside. Only the coaches and players there would have a much proper opinion about this than us.

Hopefully the wheels don't come off in the next few games But I think we are a playoff contender myself with the addition of having that dynamic speed addition of Chase Brown along with Browning surpassing expectations. 

[SunsetBengal]

(12-11-2023, 04:38 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Yeah what I meant by that is because Burrow is a much better QB (imo), the offense didn't drop off these last two weeks. In theory a drop off at QB should result in a drop off in offensive production, but it hasn't. And as you pointed at, it actually has been better generally speaking. So what gives on this? I have a possible theory that something had to be holding the offense back from its full potential. The problem is we are looking in from the outside. Only the coaches and players there would have a much proper opinion about this than us.

If you look at the plays ran, and go off of the assumption that the vast majority are the ones initially called from the sidelines, it looks similar to the plan they executed at San Francisco.  It's possible that the coaching staff had also notice what we had all been noticing about the offense being too predictable and producing stale results.  I know that some around here like to think that they don't know what they are doing, but they are highly paid professionals for a reason, and we're just fans.

[BengalYankee]

(12-11-2023, 02:30 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: The Bengals offense has not played a defense like Baltimore or Cleveland the last couple of weeks.  Its easier to have a more balanced run vs pass offense when the defenses are not good enough to make a team one dimensional.  

Neither the Vikings or Steelers have great defenses this year so the next couple of weeks wont tell us anything either.  The last two games of the season are KC and Cleveland which should tell you more where this offense stands.

The Steelers have a better defense than the Browns.
             PA 
Browns  272  
Steelers 250

The Browns have a better offense than the Steelers which is why they are one game better.

             PF
Browns  289
Steelers 210
*Bengals 280   

[Nepa]

(12-11-2023, 05:33 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: The Steelers have a better defense than the Browns.
             PA 
Browns  272  
Steelers 250

The Browns have a better offense than the Steelers which is why they are one game better.

             PF
Browns  289
Steelers 210
*Bengals 280   

Yes, the Steelers have the better scoring defense, 7th in the league versus 14th for the Browns.

If one goes by yards allowed per game, the Browns are best in the entire NFL, followed by Baltimore. In that Pittsburgh is 21st.

[Soonerpeace]

(12-11-2023, 02:01 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I hate conspiracy theories generally. But the I don't buy Zac Taylor as a play caller in me has a bit of a conspiracy for our recent success. Maybe Taylor isn't calling the plays or has been given the plays he can chose from. We had 10 days before the Steelers game yet we didn't see any of these changes. After that game sure you had tape and a whole game experience to say what Browning could and couldn't do. But he's been here all camp and season so we really had no idea what he was or wasn't capable of? Seems odd then with the quick turn around. Then someone in the organization said we are pulling this from you but we'll let you save face and not say anything public. We'll even let you design a couple of trick plays. Then we all saw how that turned out and even that got taken from him. I am mostly kidding. But this is why I don't like the committee approach. I get it that if things are going good why does it matter but we honestly don't know if there is an x factor to recent coaching/playcalling changes.

Totally a dream watch the game. Zac’s in total control. They are running their offense minus the 25% Joe doesn’t like . It’s crystal clear. Sorry it ruins so many’s mantra