We need a new punter

[007BengalsFan]

(12-11-2023, 05:20 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: ...As bad as the 31 yard punt was, it still beats the 25 net punt we got from Drue against KC.

The bottom line is they both suck. We need a new punter bad.

Im not in the bring Chrisman back camp.  I thought Chrisman should have been replaced.  I just dont think Robbins is an upgrade.  I actually thought we should have went after Michael Turk instead of Robbins.  Turk might not be perfect but he does have a big leg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc-9SPCqc84

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p5nFb9Nw5k

[Nepa]

(12-11-2023, 05:31 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Im not in the bring Chrisman back camp.  I thought Chrisman should have been replaced.  I just dont think Robbins is an upgrade.  I actually thought we should have went after Michael Turk instead of Robbins.  Turk might not be perfect but he does have a big leg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc-9SPCqc84

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p5nFb9Nw5k

Michael Turk is still unsigned.

[*Awful Llama*]

(12-11-2023, 05:20 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: That 19 yard punt was brutal. I have no idea why the Bengals just let it continue to bounce forward for like 10 yards. If you see the ball bouncing against your team, you down it, you don't watch it bounce.

I believe they were doing it because the clock was running, and that late in the game the Bengals figured the seconds spent watching it roll would be more valuable to the Cots than the yards they were yielding.  

Regardless, it's never a good sign when you're discussing the punter game after game after game after game...

[CJD]

(12-11-2023, 05:43 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: I believe they were doing it because the clock was running, and that late in the game the Bengals figured the seconds spent watching it roll would be more valuable to the Cots than the yards they were yielding.  

Regardless, it's never a good sign when you're discussing the punter game after game after game after game...

Ah, good point. I forgot how close it was to the half. Still would have preferred it to be bouncing backwards while taking clock though haha.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-11-2023, 05:07 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Weird, ESPN's website disagrees with itself. They list Robbins' net as 39.7 on his player page, but they list the Bengals' team punting net (of which only Robbins has been the punter) at 41.4
https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/view/special/stat/punting/table/punting/sort/netAvgPuntYards/dir/desc

Very strange. I was also looking ESPN, but using their player leaderboards rather than his player page specifically...

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/view/special/stat/punting/table/punting/sort/grossAvgPuntYards/dir/desc

And even that is still I guess a little wrong. He's actually 31st, not 32nd in AVG because one of the people ahead of him only has 11 punts, which normally removes them from the rankings for not qualifying. So 31st in AVG and 25th in NET out of 32.

- - - -

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RobbBr00.htm
Actually had Robbins as 39.4 NET which is slightly off ESPN's number but close to their 39.7.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/2878168/brad-robbins/
Has him at 39.7 NET.

https://www.nfl.com/players/brad-robbins/stats/
Has him at 39.7 NET as well.

So I am going to go with 39.7 likely being the right number. The PFR difference could be a stat correction where they spotted the ball differently (for instance I noticed the AJ McCarron pass went from 0 yards initially to -1 yard later) and perhaps they missed a correction.

[CJD]

(12-11-2023, 05:52 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Very strange. I was also looking ESPN, but using their player leaderboards rather than his player page specifically...

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/view/special/stat/punting/table/punting/sort/grossAvgPuntYards/dir/desc

And even that is still I guess a little wrong. He's actually 31st, not 32nd in AVG because one of the people ahead of him only has 11 punts, which normally removes them from the rankings for not qualifying. So 31st in AVG and 25th in NET out of 32.

- - - -

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RobbBr00.htm
Actually had Robbins as 39.4 NET which is slightly off ESPN's number but close to their 39.7.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/2878168/brad-robbins/
Has him at 39.7 NET.

https://www.nfl.com/players/brad-robbins/stats/
Has him at 39.7 NET as well.

So I am going to go with 39.7 likely being the right number. The PFR difference could be a stat correction where they spotted the ball differently (for instance I noticed the AJ McCarron pass went from 0 yards initially to -1 yard later) and perhaps they missed a correction.

The bottom line is Robbins is one of worst, if not the worst, punter in the NFL and I miss Kevin Huber haha. I mostly miss just not having to think about the punter. These last two years have been tumultuous.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(12-11-2023, 05:20 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: 1. Let's not play the refs bad game. The punt was horrific. Straight down the center with a hang time of like 3 seconds.
2. the problem wasn't 1 punt. Drue had the worst hang time of any punter last season, iirc. He was (and still would be) a ticking time bomb for a horrible punt return at any time. And his average is only a few yards higher than Robbins'. They are both terrible, but Drue can ruin a game.


That 19 yard punt was brutal. I have no idea why the Bengals just let it continue to bounce forward for like 10 yards. If you see the ball bouncing against your team, you down it, you don't watch it bounce.

As bad as the 31 yard punt was, it still beats the 25 net punt we got from Drue against KC.

The bottom line is they both suck. We need a new punter bad.

1. I'm not though, CJD: bad punt or not, the tackler was in position to either make the play or impede the returner. Whether there is a penalty or not, an illegal move shoved that defender out of the play, hence the reason I brought it up.
2. Let's be realistic, it was one punt: the longest return he gave up besides the Chefs punt, was 16 to Proche in the Bmore Playoff game. Next was 13 yards to CJ Board of Tennessee.

So that's 1 that was over 16 yards. Average return is 9.4, so let's just say 9. Chrisman gave up 9 returns over the average (included TBs with that as they are a net of 20 for the return team and there were only 2 TBs), so only 7 punts of the 37 were truly allowed to be returned, over the league average. 13 of them were in 20 and only 1 was shanked.

He had 13 downed or Fair Caught, so almost double of the amount of, "long," returns, he had TBs and FCs.

And each of his numbers across the board were better than Robbins this year.

Wish I could find HT stats...

[sandwedge]

(12-11-2023, 05:43 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: I believe they were doing it because the clock was running, and that late in the game the Bengals figured the seconds spent watching it roll would be more valuable to the Cots than the yards they were yielding.  

Regardless, it's never a good sign when you're discussing the punter game after game after game after game...

Exactly correct, good to see players using their noggins!

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-11-2023, 02:55 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Robbins is just not getting the job done.  Yesterday he one punt that went 19 yards, another punt that went 31 yards, one that went 43.  His "long" punt of the day went 52 yards but he actually only punted the ball in the air close to 35 yards where the punt was so short the punt returner couldnt run up to it fast enough for a fair catch so it hit the ground and rolled another 17 yards.  This guy is just not helping the team.  Im not buying the whole "he doesnt have a bunch of return yards" excuses.   When you have a punter that doesnt have a strong enough leg to consistently kick the ball more that 38 yards, of course he isnt going to have a bunch of return yards

I am not impressed with Robbins either. But just the same, I don't want to bring in a big leg at this time and see Punt Returns for TD's
or long returns. Chrisman has a bigger leg, but he was one of the reasons we lost to the Chiefs in the AFC Champioship. I would much 
rather have short kicks that result in no returns than possible TD's or big yardage at this point in the season.

We need to win out and have won 2 in a row. Need to hope Robbins improves at this point. Huber wasn't good at all either his rookie 
season and became our best Punter ever. Not saying Robbins will upstage him or anything, just saying it is possible he improves.

[ElkValleyBengal]

(12-11-2023, 05:21 PM)BengalYankee Wrote:

Unless this guy has other skeletons in the closet we've not been made aware of, there's no reason he shouldn't be on an NFL roster- especially the Bengals'.

[The D.O.Z.]

I hope they at least bring in competition in the off-season. We spent a draft pick on him, and I would hate to see that as a wasted pick, but at this point he hasn't shown much improvement. And the "he's a rookie" argument doesn't hold much weight with me at this point in the season, he has played plenty of football and kicked a bunch in practice I'm sure.

I wouldn't spend a pick on another one but I would for sure bring in a UDFA to push him all through preseason. Both will get plenty of work, let the best player win coming out of next TC.

[Joelist]

I expect Robbins will be working in offseason on leg strength. He already has accuracy.

[*michaelsean*]

(12-12-2023, 01:09 AM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: I hope they at least bring in competition in the off-season. We spent a draft pick on him, and I would hate to see that as a wasted pick, but at this point he hasn't shown much improvement. And the "he's a rookie" argument doesn't hold much weight with me at this point in the season, he has played plenty of football and kicked a bunch in practice I'm sure.

I wouldn't spend a pick on another one but I would for sure bring in a UDFA to push him all through preseason. Both will get plenty of work, let the best player win coming out of next TC.

Rookie means very little at all. He’s just kicking the ball.

[CJD]

(12-11-2023, 09:04 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: 1. I'm not though, CJD: bad punt or not, the tackler was in position to either make the play or impede the returner. Whether there is a penalty or not, an illegal move shoved that defender out of the play, hence the reason I brought it up.
2. Let's be realistic, it was one punt: the longest return he gave up besides the Chefs punt, was 16 to Proche in the Bmore Playoff game. Next was 13 yards to CJ Board of Tennessee.

So that's 1 that was over 16 yards. Average return is 9.4, so let's just say 9. Chrisman gave up 9 returns over the average (included TBs with that as they are a net of 20 for the return team and there were only 2 TBs), so only 7 punts of the 37 were truly allowed to be returned, over the league average. 13 of them were in 20 and only 1 was shanked.

He had 13 downed or Fair Caught, so almost double of the amount of, "long," returns, he had TBs and FCs.

And each of his numbers across the board were better than Robbins this year.

Wish I could find HT stats...

1. Unfortunately, we cannot control the refs. Rather than talk about penalties that should have (or should not have) been, it's better to just not put yourself in a position where a single defender is standing between you and losing an AFC championship game.

2. In a small sample size, that's a lot of free yards given up. 9.4 yards per return is almost a free first down every punt return. Like I said, he was a ticking time bomb for a huge return.

HT is a premium stat. I don't have PFF or anything like that, so I can only go off of references to it from articles and tweets, like this one:

Quote:A Cincinnati native and Ohio State alum, Chrisman was set to compete with rookie Brad Robbins for the Bengals' punting job. He took over for long-time veteran Kevin Huber in the middle of last season. He averaged 47.4 yards per punt, but his average hang time was a meager 3.85. Only two others had an average under 4.00. 

https://atozsports.com/cincinnati/bengals-punter-drue-chrisman-hospitalized-with-undisclosed-condition


And this one:

Quote:Chrisman's average hang time of 3.85 seconds last season was the worst in a decade for any NFL punter with at least 20 punts, according to ProFootballFocus.com, while Robbins was 4.36 seconds last season.

https://local12.com/sports/bengals/cincinnati-bengals-punter-drue-chrisman-knew-competition-coming-why-embraces-embrace-nfl-draft-pro-football-brad-robbins-michigan-wolverines-hang-time





Worst in a decade haha.

[Nepa]

(12-12-2023, 10:32 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: 1. Unfortunately, we cannot control the refs. Rather than talk about penalties that should have (or should not have) been, it's better to just not put yourself in a position where a single defender is standing between you and losing an AFC championship game.

2. In a small sample size, that's a lot of free yards given up. 9.4 yards per return is almost a free first down every punt return. Like I said, he was a ticking time bomb for a huge return.

HT is a premium stat. I don't have PFF or anything like that, so I can only go off of references to it from articles and tweets, like this one:
https://atozsports.com/cincinnati/bengals-punter-drue-chrisman-hospitalized-with-undisclosed-condition


And this one:
https://local12.com/sports/bengals/cincinnati-bengals-punter-drue-chrisman-knew-competition-coming-why-embraces-embrace-nfl-draft-pro-football-brad-robbins-michigan-wolverines-hang-time





Worst in a decade haha.

Good find.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(12-12-2023, 10:32 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: 1. Unfortunately, we cannot control the refs. Rather than talk about penalties that should have (or should not have) been, it's better to just not put yourself in a position where a single defender is standing between you and losing an AFC championship game.

2. In a small sample size, that's a lot of free yards given up. 9.4 yards per return is almost a free first down every punt return. Like I said, he was a ticking time bomb for a huge return.

HT is a premium stat. I don't have PFF or anything like that, so I can only go off of references to it from articles and tweets, like this one:
https://atozsports.com/cincinnati/bengals-punter-drue-chrisman-hospitalized-with-undisclosed-condition


And this one:
https://local12.com/sports/bengals/cincinnati-bengals-punter-drue-chrisman-knew-competition-coming-why-embraces-embrace-nfl-draft-pro-football-brad-robbins-michigan-wolverines-hang-time





Worst in a decade haha.

I have to reiterate, I'm not talking about penalties: I'm talking about how we had a guy ready to make the tackle/impede the returner, thus the coverage was good (that was my point). If he isn't blocked in the back, the return doesn't go for 26.

And I will take bad HT with 10 yards more per punt any day of the week, over better HT with no yards: when you need to flip the field/coffin corner, you need someone with a big leg.

Again, I'm ready for someone completely new next year and punt (no pun intended) Robbins

[CJD]

(12-12-2023, 10:56 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I have to reiterate, I'm not talking about penalties: I'm talking about how we had a guy ready to make the tackle/impede the returner, thus the coverage was good (that was my point). If he isn't blocked in the back, the return doesn't go for 26.

And I will take bad HT with 10 yards more per punt any day of the week, over better HT with no yards: when you need to flip the field/coffin corner, you need someone with a big leg.

Again, I'm ready for someone completely new next year and punt (no pun intended) Robbins

If Chrisman were offering us 10 more yards per punt, I'd agree. But he is only offering 2 to 4 more yards per punt, depending on if you count net or average.

But I think everyone in this thread agrees that neither player is the long term answer unless they do something to completely resolve their biggest weakness (distance for Robbins, HT for Chrisman).

[fisherscatfan]

Matt Araiza removed from civil lawsuit. Worth a look?

[Mgbrown66]

Punt God story is fascinating. I think he deserves a second chance.

[Millhouse]

It looks like Tory Taylor out of Iowa is the top punter coming out. He's a junior and an Aussie too. Looking at what he has done so far, I would be ok using a 5th rounder on him. Getting a punter that is accurate and can pin opponent deep would be on the roster for the next decade.