Jonah Williams

[*ochocincos*]

(12-29-2023, 05:13 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I wasnt speaking of just edge rushers just elite pass rushers in general.  The Bengals line hasnt been good enough to stop either edge or inside and that's the problem. 

Gotcha.
But typically it's not the OT's responsibility to take on the IDL.
Maybe I made a jump, but adding a new RT wouldn't have really mattered if going against Aaron Donald or Chris Jones, as those guys bullied the IOL.

With that said, we cannot expect an overhaul of the OL in one offseason, at least with this coaching staff.
Pollack brought in these guys over the past 2-3 years, so 4 of them are there whether we like it or not.
Jonah is the only spot on the OL I see even being in question for 2024.

[007BengalsFan]

(12-29-2023, 05:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Gotcha.
But typically it's not the OT's responsibility to take on the IDL.
Maybe I made a jump, but adding a new RT wouldn't have really mattered if going against Aaron Donald or Chris Jones, as those guys bullied the IOL.

With that said, we cannot expect an overhaul of the OL in one offseason, at least with this coaching staff.
Pollack brought in these guys over the past 2-3 years, so 4 of them are there whether we like it or not.
Jonah is the only spot on the OL I see even being in question for 2024.

I agree.  The line will be the same with the exception of Jonah. As mediocre as Jonah has played, we could end up with someone worse. 

I think the only way the O line is able to improve next year is if we get rid of Pollack.  He has been here long enough and the line still isnt that good.  They play well every now and then but overall they are not where they should be.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-29-2023, 05:12 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If I'm putting myself in the mindset of the Bengals braintrust, I think they're thinking this:
- This team was responsible for getting to the Super Bowl and two AFCCGs. You don't get there by replacing a good number of players. You try to keep the team as intact as possible within budget.
- These are the guys we know and helped get the team where it is, so we're higher on them than the fans probably are.
- With Burrow's big contract about to hit, we have to be mindful of what we can fit in budget these upcoming next few years.

So I think they'll look to only change out a few spots like they did this past year.
If they can fit it in the budget, they'll try to have as few departures of impending FAs as they can. Specifically Higgins, Reader, and even Jonah.
They'll fill the departures with probably a couple cost-appropriate vets and a couple high draft picks.
Most/all draft picks will end up being depth guys out of the gate and groomed to take over in future year(s), just like Murphy was selected.

That is true, there is only so much money to work with.  

With the advent of Free Agency and the Salary Cap, the NFL has done some great things during my viewing lifetime.  It would be nice to see them take things a step further and institute positional salary caps.  Not capped in terms of dollars, but as in a percentage of the cap for their respective team.  We're now seeing QBs eating 20% and more of a team's salary cap, and the best position players commanding 10-15%, of a number that is supposed to spread across 53 players.  With so many front offices becoming adept at cap manipulation and making money seemingly 'disappear', it seems time for the league to go a step further to ensure that level playing field.

[007BengalsFan]

(12-29-2023, 05:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That is true, there is only so much money to work with.  

With the advent of Free Agency and the Salary Cap, the NFL has done some great things during my viewing lifetime.  It would be nice to see them take things a step further and institute positional salary caps.  Not capped in terms of dollars, but as in a percentage of the cap for their respective team.  We're now seeing QBs eating 20% and more of a team's salary cap, and the best position players commanding 10-15%, of a number that is supposed to spread across 53 players.  With so many front offices becoming adept at cap manipulation and making money seemingly 'disappear', it seems time for the league to go a step further to ensure that level playing field.

When a player like Burrow takes up 55 million and these other QBs taking 50+ million that just leaves less for everyone else on those teams.  Im sure the other guys on the Bengals would like to get paid too.  When you have one or two guys taking up so much of the salary cap it limits what everyone else can make.  The NBA has a max contract so there is no reason the NFL couldnt come up with their own version of a max contract

[Housh]

(12-29-2023, 03:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Jonah was doing rather well prior to playing the Steelers this year.
Ever since Week 12 (5 games), he's allowed 4 sacks.
Compare that to 4 sacks in the10 games prior.
Steelers games alone accounted for 3 of those 4 sacks in the past 5 games.

Divisional games have resulted in just 2 sacks allowed. The other 6 have come in the divisional games.
So the division has both schemed a way to beat him and also the AFC North just has really good pass rushers.

At the end of the day, I say Jonah is solid. He does well against non-elite rushers. But he does get beat pretty bad against good rushers, which probably isn't the best when playing against CLE, PIT, and BAL twice a year.

I'm ok if Jonah departs after this season, but we also should be prepared that it is possible the Bengals get even worse at RT bringing in someone new.

Sadly this likely means he’s gone

What good is he to us if he’s average or slightly above
Against weaker guys but totally ass in the 8 games that are most important


I’d rather just get a rookie whose league average against everyone

[The D.O.Z.]

(12-30-2023, 01:27 PM)Housh Wrote: Sadly this likely means he’s gone

What good is he to us if he’s average or slightly above
Against weaker guys but totally ass in the 8 games that are most important


I’d rather just get a rookie whose league average against everyone

This. We've seen what Jonah brings at this point. Why not TRY to improve there rather than go with the status quo? If he's like this against Garrett and Watt, what's he gonna be like against a Bosa / Young combo, or the like, in a possible SuperBowl? We should want and expect better. Just because he's the best available in a very limited FA class shouldn't dictate us spending $12+ million per year on a guy who isn't worth $12 million per. Let some other team sign him to big bucks and try to "fix" him.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-30-2023, 01:45 PM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: This. We've seen what Jonah brings at this point. Why not TRY to improve there rather than go with the status quo? If he's like this against Garrett and Watt, what's he gonna be like against a Bosa / Young combo, or the like, in a possible SuperBowl? We should want and expect better. Just because he's the best available in a very limited FA class shouldn't dictate us spending $12+ million per year on a guy who isn't worth $12 million per. Let some other team sign him to big bucks and try to "fix" him.

Damn rights. Lets get a player in here at RT that can get better.

[Bronxbengal]

This team has a series of questions needing to be addressed in the off season. RT is a glaring hole. Jonah to me has been meh, but serviceable. My problem with the line ( I believe) is due to the strategy of the offense dictated by Taylor and Burrow. Both want to run a pass happy offense and Pollack has players for a run centric offense. The line was good when we ran the ball more.

This board goes nuts about our line but I see all lines across the NFL giving up sacks or having the QB scramble. I have not seen many lines this year creating the consistent true pocket for the QB.

Overall, I would try to keep Jonah at a good price assuming he wants to stay with the Bengals and willing to stay at RT.


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[*Synric*]

(12-31-2023, 09:45 AM)Bronxbengal Wrote: This team has a series of questions needing to be addressed in the off season.  RT is a glaring hole.  Jonah to me has been meh, but serviceable.  My problem with the line ( I believe) is due to the strategy of the offense dictated by Taylor and Burrow.  Both want to run a pass happy offense and Pollack has players for a run centric offense.  The line was good when we ran the ball more.  

This board goes nuts about our line but I see all lines across the NFL giving up sacks or having the QB scramble.  I have not seen many lines this year creating the consistent true pocket for the QB.

Overall, I would try to keep Jonah at a good price assuming he wants to stay with the Bengals and willing to stay at RT.  


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I could argue against that. lol

[Bronxbengal]

(12-31-2023, 10:57 AM)Synric Wrote: I could argue against that. lol

So let’s hear your argument lol


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[Bengal Dude]

Whether you like Jonah or not, I think he's leaving. We know he was frustrated with the team not reaching out to him about the OBJ signing. In multiple interviews throughout the season, Jonah mentioned that the team still hadn't talked to him. You could definitely tell he was still ticked about it. With the way the OL play has been around the league, someone is going to offer a big deal to Jonah. I wouldn't be surprised to see someone offer him a LT deal, but let him know that they won't avoid a LT in the draft and potentially kick him over to RT.


Although, I thought for sure Pratt was gone last offseason and we brought him back. So, who really knows?

[Bengalfan4life27c]

He's a good backup below average starter if someone in the NFL wants to offer him a ton of money let them just dont let it be us, He is also liability the run game I rarely see long runs on his side. We had nice 3 game stretch running on OBJ side then defenses adjusted.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-30-2023, 01:27 PM)Housh Wrote: Sadly this likely means he’s gone

What good is he to us if he’s average or slightly above
Against weaker guys but totally ass in the 8 games that are most important


I’d rather just get a rookie whose league average against everyone

Who is to say a rookie will be able to handle the likes of TJ Watt, Alex Highsmith, Myles Garrett, Zadarius Smith, Odafe Oweh, and Jadaveon Clowney at least "league average?"
Pretty sure most OL struggle against those guys, which is why they are so good.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-30-2023, 01:45 PM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: This. We've seen what Jonah brings at this point. Why not TRY to improve there rather than go with the status quo? If he's like this against Garrett and Watt, what's he gonna be like against a Bosa / Young combo, or the like, in a possible SuperBowl? We should want and expect better. Just because he's the best available in a very limited FA class shouldn't dictate us spending $12+ million per year on a guy who isn't worth $12 million per. Let some other team sign him to big bucks and try to "fix" him.

Fair, but unless the Bengals are either A) really, really good at assessing OL talent (they haven't shown it in the past), and/or B) willing to spend top-dollar for a bona fide elite RT (unlikely with big internal contracts/extensions coming), they're gonna have to either be happy with who they have or risk possibly getting even worse at a position.