Cris Collinsworth

[Marlon23]

Thinking about Bengal History is Mr. Collinsworth one of the best WR in Bengal History? Would you put him in front of OCHO and perhaps AJ? I know AJ's Career is still going but I always wondered where his spot is on the bengals WR of all time... He seems to be a pretty solid guy!

[*ochocincos*]

(12-11-2015, 12:27 PM)Marlon23 Wrote: Thinking about Bengal History is Mr. Collinsworth one of the best WR in Bengal History?  Would you put him in front of OCHO and perhaps AJ?  I know AJ's Career is still going but I always wondered where his spot is on the bengals WR of all time...  He seems to be a pretty solid guy!

Collinsworth played eight years in the NFL, all for Cincy. He had just under 7000 rec yards and just 36 TDs.

He's definitely not in front of Chad. Chad exceeded 10,000 receiving yards and 66 TDs for the Bengals in 10 seasons.
He's close to, but IMO is not in front of Carl Pickens, who also nearly 7000 rec yards but 63 rec TDs.
Same scenario when compared to Isaac Curtis, who had just over 7000 rec yards and 53 TDs.

Green is on pace to be the best (or second best) WR in Bengals history. In just his fifth season, he's already amassed 5911 rec yards and 42 TDs. He should exceed the franchise career receiving yards and TDs marks by the end of his Bengals career (contract through 2019 and might go out another year or two with another extension, giving him 10+ seasons).

So in terms of Top 5 right now, I'd probably put...
1) Chad Johnson
2) AJ Green (given current production, but could become top by end)
3) Isaac Curtis
4) Carl Pickens
5) Cris Collinsworth

[reuben.ahmed]

That's amazing to consider AJ wouldn't end up #1 in Bengals history given the pass happy league NFL has become (i.e. we have several receivers who are "better than Jerry Rice" playing in the league right now).

I remember Darnay Scott and Carl Pickens. Pickens was always good for a TD.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-11-2015, 12:53 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: That's amazing to consider AJ wouldn't end up #1 in Bengals history given the pass happy league NFL has become (i.e. we have several receivers who are "better than Jerry Rice" playing in the league right now).

I remember Darnay Scott and Carl Pickens. Pickens was always good for a TD.

Carl Pickens was one of the most automatic WR's I have ever seen.   If he actually had a QB like CP or Andy his numbers would be off the charts.  

Both Pickens and Darnay fell into a time when we were in Qb purgatory.   Which is a shame.

[Luvnit2]

(12-11-2015, 12:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Collinsworth played eight years in the NFL, all for Cincy. He had just under 7000 rec yards and just 36 TDs.

He's definitely not in front of Chad. Chad exceeded 10,000 receiving yards and 66 TDs for the Bengals in 10 seasons.
He's close to, but IMO is not in front of Carl Pickens, who also nearly 7000 rec yards but 63 rec TDs.
Same scenario when compared to Isaac Curtis, who had just over 7000 rec yards and 53 TDs.

Green is on pace to be the best (or second best) WR in Bengals history. In just his fifth season, he's already amassed 5911 rec yards and 42 TDs. He should exceed the franchise career receiving yards and TDs marks by the end of his Bengals career (contract through 2019 and might go out another year or two with another extension, giving him 10+ seasons).

So in terms of Top 5 right now, I'd probably put...
1) Chad Johnson
2) AJ Green (given current production, but could become top by end)
3) Isaac Curtis
4) Carl Pickens
5) Cris Collinsworth

I look at more than numbers. Chad was a lousy blocker. AJ is a good and getting better each year blocker. I think AJ surpasses Chad and I need to check the numbers, but I would be shocked if Chad has better numbers when compared to AJ when looking apples to apples (year 5 after 12 games and previous 4 years) as if I remember correctly Chad started slowly and also missed a huge part of one his first couple of years due to injury.

[M.W.]

(12-11-2015, 12:53 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: That's amazing to consider AJ wouldn't end up #1 in Bengals history given the pass happy league NFL has become (i.e. we have several receivers who are "better than Jerry Rice" playing in the league right now).

I remember Darnay Scott and Carl Pickens. Pickens was always good for a TD.

Good old Jeff Blake!

[gobobro]

(12-11-2015, 12:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Collinsworth played eight years in the NFL, all for Cincy. He had just under 7000 rec yards and just 36 TDs.

He's definitely not in front of Chad. Chad exceeded 10,000 receiving yards and 66 TDs for the Bengals in 10 seasons.
He's close to, but IMO is not in front of Carl Pickens, who also nearly 7000 rec yards but 63 rec TDs.
Same scenario when compared to Isaac Curtis, who had just over 7000 rec yards and 53 TDs.

Green is on pace to be the best (or second best) WR in Bengals history. In just his fifth season, he's already amassed 5911 rec yards and 42 TDs. He should exceed the franchise career receiving yards and TDs marks by the end of his Bengals career (contract through 2019 and might go out another year or two with another extension, giving him 10+ seasons).

So in terms of Top 5 right now, I'd probably put...
1) Chad Johnson
2) AJ Green (given current production, but could become top by end)
3) Isaac Curtis
4) Carl Pickens
5) Cris Collinsworth

While a lot of it is splitting hairs, I'd place:

1. AJ Green (He needs to get back to fighting for contested balls more, and diving for the touch catch. He fought like Hell for contested balls until he got hurt doing it against Pittsburgh his rookie year. Since then, I think he's gotten gun shy... He also used to dive for balls until the injury scare during of the 2013 training camp.)
2. Isaac Curtis (This guy was insane to watch. The stats are tough to get excited about because it was a different era of football, but he was amazing. He is the reason Ken Anderson has the stats to knock on the door of the Hall of Fame.)
3. Chad Johnson (Perhaps the most gifted receiver in Bengals history, but realized slightly less of his potential... He was a big kid at heart. He loved the diving catch too much, and didn't have the focus to be more precise in his routes. The guy could outrun anyone, and catch anything with his fingertips. He just didn't always do what he was supposed to, and I'd swear he adjusted routes for the drama of a diving catch.)
4. Carl Pickens (Spectacularly gifted hands, route running, and leaping ability. The losing was too much, though. Kind of a selfish jerk... Would have been cool to have seen if he would have been a better team player in a different era of the organization)
5. Cris Collinsworth (Honestly, the least physically gifted of these receivers. He was the Puritan work ethic poster child, though. Worked harder, studied more, and did what he could do with Swiss precision.)

[Luvnit2]

(12-11-2015, 01:47 PM)gobobro Wrote: While a lot of it is splitting hairs, I'd place:

1. AJ Green (He needs to get back to fighting for contested balls more, and diving for the touch catch. He fought like Hell for contested balls until he got hurt doing it against Pittsburgh his rookie year. Since then, I think he's gotten gun shy... He also used to dive for balls until the injury scare during of the 2013 training camp.)
2. Isaac Curtis (This guy was insane to watch. The stats are tough to get excited about because it was a different era of football, but he was amazing. He is the reason Ken Anderson has the stats to knock on the door of the Hall of Fame.)
3. Chad Johnson (Perhaps the most gifted receiver in Bengals history, but realized slightly less of his potential... He was a big kid at heart. He loved the diving catch too much, and didn't have the focus to be more precise in his routes. The guy could outrun anyone, and catch anything with his fingertips. He just didn't always do what he was supposed to, and I'd swear he adjusted routes for the drama of a diving catch.)
4. Carl Pickens (Spectacularly gifted hands, route running, and leaping ability. The losing was too much, though. Kind of a selfish jerk... Would have been cool to have seen if he would have been a better team player in a different era of the organization)
5. Cris Collinsworth (Honestly, the least physically gifted of these receivers. He was the Puritan work ethic poster child, though. Worked harder, studied more, and did what he could do with Swiss precision.)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I agree with this list. They were all great WR's for us or would not be mentioned

[gobobro]

(12-11-2015, 12:53 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: That's amazing to consider AJ wouldn't end up #1 in Bengals history given the pass happy league NFL has become (i.e. we have several receivers who are "better than Jerry Rice" playing in the league right now).

I remember Darnay Scott and Carl Pickens. Pickens was always good for a TD.

I'm still shocked we haven't found a Pickens-like end zone play since he left. He had great hands, and was such a tremendous leaper. He'd just run to the corner of the end zone and wait for Blake to throw high in his area. Either he'd out jump the double coverage for the TD, or the ball would go out of bounds. Simple strategy with insane results.

[thegimp]

What Issac Curtis accomplished, when he accomplished it is hard to argue with. Chad and AJ are amazing, Pickens was an animal, Collinsworth worked his arse off…but Curtis gets my vote

[MTBengalsFan]

(12-11-2015, 07:22 PM)thegimp Wrote: What Issac Curtis accomplished, when he accomplished it is hard to argue with.  Chad and AJ are amazing, Pickens was an animal, Collinsworth worked his arse off…but Curtis gets my vote

Yep, I would agree. For those too  young to remember Isaac Curtis, he made some amazing catches. His speed was a difference maker.

Biggest disappointment as a receiver for me? David Verser. As I recall, he was drafted in the same draft as Collinsworth (only earlier), and I expected him to be special with his rare speed. He just never got there. I may be wrong about that draft, but that's how I remember it.

[Goalpost]

I'd be tempted to put Eddie Brown in my top five.

[Baby Hawk]

(12-11-2015, 08:55 PM)MTBengalsFan Wrote: Yep, I would agree. For those too  young to remember Isaac Curtis, he made some amazing catches. His speed was a difference maker.

Biggest disappointment as a receiver for me? David Verser. As I recall, he was drafted in the same draft as Collinsworth (only earlier), and I expected him to be special with his rare speed. He just never got there. I may be wrong about that draft, but that's how I remember it.

I've always like the idea that if you have a hole that really needs to be filled, draft two players and make them compete.

Verser was a track star picked in the first round.  Collinsworth was a football player picked in the second.  Verser didn't rise to the occasion but Collinsworth did. 

[CKwi88]

(12-11-2015, 12:53 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote:  (i.e. we have several receivers who are "better than Jerry Rice" playing in the league right now

That is absurd. Anyone alleging that or even thinking that should be slapped.

















I agree with a previous poster. Collinsworth is around #5. Chad, like him or not, is top. AJ will probably overtake him though.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-11-2015, 01:25 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I look at more than numbers. Chad was a lousy blocker. AJ is a good and getting better each year blocker. I think AJ surpasses Chad and I need to check the numbers, but I would be shocked if Chad has better numbers when compared to AJ when looking apples to apples (year 5 after 12 games and previous 4 years) as if I remember correctly Chad started slowly and also missed a huge part of one his first couple of years due to injury.

If you look at more than numbers, sure Chad was a poor blocker, but AJ gives up on routes occasionally, and doesn't fight for or comes back to the ball, leading to INTs. I'd choose less INTs over better blocking. Otherwise just get a blocking TE, FB, or an extra OL out there rather than a WR.

As for the numbers, I think you'd be at least a little shocked. Even if you don't keep in mind the fact that in 2001 (Chad's rookie season) there were only TWO quarterbacks who passed for at least 4,000 yards compared to 2011 (AJ's rookie season) when there were ten quarterbacks who passed for at least 4,000 yards and three who passed for at least 5,000 yards. You were right that he did very little when he first came into the league (28/329/1, but then again.. he had Jon Kitna putting up a 53.9%/3,216yd/5.5ypa/12 TD/22 INT/61.1 QB Rating season). That said...

Chad through 5 years:
379 catches / 5,556 yards / 34 TDs

AJ through 4.75 years:
399 catches / 5,911 yards / 42 TDs

If you take the timeframe of the NFL into consideration, Chad's numbers are much more impressive. Chad led the AFC in receiving yardage in both his 3rd and 5th seasons along with the fact that he was a 3-time All-Pro in his first 5 seasons. (AJ leading the AFC in yards 0 times and only making 2nd team All-Pro twice, 1st team 0 times.

Chad was really really good back then.

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-11-2015, 12:27 PM)Marlon23 Wrote: Thinking about Bengal History is Mr. Collinsworth one of the best WR in Bengal History?  Would you put him in front of OCHO and perhaps AJ?  I know AJ's Career is still going but I always wondered where his spot is on the bengals WR of all time...  He seems to be a pretty solid guy!

EFF Chris "Collingsworth". That jackass is dead to me.

[Shake n Blake]

It's always seemed like most of the folks who bash Chad loved Palmer. Go figure. Chad was always viewed as an excellent route runner until 2010. Then Carson threw his arms up in disgust after a couple INT's and suddenly rumors about Chad "freelancing routes" grew out of control. Of course most of those rumors were started by Carson fans trying to explain away the 20 INTs and 5 pick-sixes that year.

Sure, Chad freelanced some routes, but most great WRs do. I read an article once where Drew Brees said that Colston freelances all the time, and that vet WRs are encouraged to do so. He'd see things on the field and make adjustments. Drew had trust and chemistry with him to know where he'd be. Chad and Carson were together for 8 years. They should've had plenty of trust and chemistry together.

Who you want to blame that on probably depends on who you like more. In reality, it was probably both their faults.

[Marlon23]

(12-12-2015, 12:35 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: EFF Chris "Collingsworth". That jackass is dead to me.

LOL!!!   why what did he do to you ????  LOL...  

[wolfkaosaun]

Collinsworth is not in front of Chad or AJ. He's not in front of Curtis.

I'd put him with Pickens and Brown. He's in that tier.

[Luvnit2]

(12-12-2015, 12:31 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If you look at more than numbers, sure Chad was a poor blocker, but AJ gives up on routes occasionally, and doesn't fight for or comes back to the ball, leading to INTs. I'd choose less INTs over better blocking. Otherwise just get a blocking TE, FB, or an extra OL out there rather than a WR.

As for the numbers, I think you'd be at least a little shocked. Even if you don't keep in mind the fact that in 2001 (Chad's rookie season) there were only TWO quarterbacks who passed for at least 4,000 yards compared to 2011 (AJ's rookie season) when there were ten quarterbacks who passed for at least 4,000 yards and three who passed for at least 5,000 yards. You were right that he did very little when he first came into the league (28/329/1, but then again.. he had Jon Kitna putting up a 53.9%/3,216yd/5.5ypa/12 TD/22 INT/61.1 QB Rating season). That said...

Chad through 5 years:
379 catches / 5,556 yards / 34 TDs

AJ through 4.75 years:
399 catches / 5,911 yards / 42 TDs

If you take the timeframe of the NFL into consideration, Chad's numbers are much more impressive. Chad led the AFC in receiving yardage in both his 3rd and 5th seasons along with the fact that he was a 3-time All-Pro in his first 5 seasons. (AJ leading the AFC in yards 0 times and only making 2nd team All-Pro twice, 1st team 0 times.

Chad was really really good back then.

TY for the numbers. My point was someone said Chad had better numbers when comparing to AJ Green I thought, maybe I misread it. As far as comparing from different eras and taking into account the QB, I would argue many said our QB was below average hos 1st four years in the NFL and we know AD and AJ came in immediately with no camps (either one of them) so a lot more on the intangible side than just the era. No doubt Chad was outstanding and why considered to be the best versus #3 or worse.