Tough Year

[Essex Johnson]

(01-01-2024, 12:46 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Lamar is great, but he plays for a team and a coach that won a Super Bowl 5 years before he got there.

Burrow joined a team with an upstart HC (who looked like a disaster), and a franchise that hadn’t won a playoff game in 3 decades.

They did not start from the same place.

Lamar also took over a team that was under 500 the previous 3 years total and no playoffs, so a shell of the 5 yr AGO SB team, trust me we go 3 seasons in a row no playoffs our SB run will  in back mirror also

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Blaming this season on injuries is just weak. We've been one of the healthier teams in the NFL this year.

Only 5 of the 16 AFC teams had their Week 1 QB starting in Week 17, we're not special there.
Last I knew we were one of only 2 or 3 teams in the NFL to have their entire starting OL not miss a start.
Reader is our only starting defensive player who has gone down for the season and that was in Week 14, and the defense was atrocious before then.

There are only 5 teams with less people on the IR than us.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-01-2024, 01:54 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Lamar also took over a team that was under 500 the previous 3 years total and no playoffs, so a shell of the 5 yr AGO SB team, trust me we go 3 seasons in a row no playoffs our SB run will  in back mirror also

Lamar also has had a Top-3 scoring defense in 5 of his 6 years in the NFL, and the only year he didn't have a Top-3 scoring defense, the Ravens had a losing record.

He's also terrible and 1-3 in the playoffs.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-01-2024, 01:54 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Lamar also took over a team that was under 500 the previous 3 years total and no playoffs, so a shell of the 5 yr AGO SB team, trust me we go 3 seasons in a row no playoffs our SB run will  in back mirror also

The year before they drafted Lamar the Ravens went 9-7. Baltimore has only had 2 losing seasons under John Harbaugh in 16 years. Again, Lamar walked into a much better situation than Burrow. It’s not even debatable.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-01-2024, 02:01 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Lamar also has had a Top-3 scoring defense in 5 of his 6 years in the NFL, and the only year he didn't have a Top-3 scoring defense, the Ravens had a losing record.

He's also terrible and 1-3 in the playoffs.

Yep. People love to talk about his lack of WR’s but he always has a top defense, top TE, good to great running game, and a Super Bowl winning coach.

[Science Friction]

We should have beaten the Rams when we had them. You get very, very few chances like that in a lifetime . Just needed one stop...couldn't get it!

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-01-2024, 02:55 AM)Science Friction Wrote: We should have beaten the Rams when we had them. You get very, very few chances like that in a lifetime . Just needed one stop...couldn't get it!

Hopefully Burrow is Elway and not Marino.

[mhbsavant]

(12-31-2023, 10:42 PM)QueenCity Wrote: I'm guessing it's because Burrow was injured for the vast majority of the year?

Cmon we just giving bad end of the year takes now?

Ijs why do the Bengals need EVERYONE healthy to produce

[NUGDUKWE]

(01-01-2024, 02:55 AM)Science Friction Wrote: We should have beaten the Rams when we had them. You get very, very few chances like that in a lifetime . Just needed one stop...couldn't get it!

From what I remember we got several stops. We also needed one drive and couldn't get it. 

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(01-01-2024, 03:45 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Hopefully Burrow is Elway and not Marino.

That’s true — but without better protection he’s going to be Andrew Luck.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-01-2024, 02:55 AM)Science Friction Wrote: We should have beaten the Rams when we had them. You get very, very few chances like that in a lifetime . Just needed one stop...couldn't get it!

 of course last drive by rams was  the key lead change drive, but it was not last play ogf game to say last stop. we don't know if that was going to be their last drive , there was plenty of time to have stopped us in the game if we stopped them at various points on that drive. Go ahead late score hell yes  but was not last play of game so can't say one stop definitively.  Remember when we stopped Pittsburgh in playoffs one stop we win  with Burfict int right but time still clock and we lost.   What if the phantom interference call on Lawson does not happen, 4th and goal from 8 instead of 1st and goal from 4, so many plays in a football game that could have changed outcome. In the end Rams made the late plays to win the game.. If there was ever a play in Bengal SB history to say last stop it was SB 23 Taylor Td sadly...

[Essex Johnson]

(01-01-2024, 02:17 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yep. People love to talk about his lack of WR’s but he always has a top defense, top TE, good to great running game, and a Super Bowl winning coach.

Well as you have said multiple times, having a top tier QB give you greater odds than anything else in getting to and winning SB and Lamar does that regardless of other variables,  and he has grown as a QB and fully healthy  so this might be the year but regardless just as Burrow healthy is #1 variable to us making it back so is Lamar healthy is for Ravens.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-01-2024, 03:45 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Hopefully Burrow is Elway and not Marino.

Oof, please don't bring that up. I had managed to successfully forget that stat/list that came out in the '21-'22 offseason about QBs not winning a SB after losing in their first appearance.

Until just now. Lol. Now it's back in my mind with the no HC/QB combo having ever won a SB together if they didn't win one in their first 5 years one.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-01-2024, 02:55 AM)Science Friction Wrote: We should have beaten the Rams when we had them. You get very, very few chances like that in a lifetime . Just needed one stop...couldn't get it!

When it came down to the final moments...

They called on Cooper Kupp to make a play. We called on Samaje Perine to make a play.
They called on Aaron Donald to win a 1-on-1. We called on Eli Apple to win a 1-on-1.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-01-2024, 02:01 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Lamar also has had a Top-3 scoring defense in 5 of his 6 years in the NFL, and the only year he didn't have a Top-3 scoring defense, the Ravens had a losing record.

He's also terrible and 1-3 in the playoffs.

Strong defense yes for sure, but Lamar did play well 2 of the 4 games he played in the playoffs but he has to turn that around or that will weigh on where he ranks in top 5 QBs

He is an absolute a stud in winning with a record of 62-24 considering even with a very strong defense with injuries at the Oline, with a revolving door at RB and outside of Andrews not much at WR during his career overall

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-01-2024, 04:50 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Strong defense yes for sure, but Lamar did play well 2 of the 4 games he played in the playoffs but he has to turn that around or that will weigh on where he ranks in top 5 QBs

He is an absolute a stud in winning with a record of 62-24 considering even with a very strong defense with injuries at the Oline, with a revolving door at RB and outside of Andrews not much at WR during his career overall

78.8 QB Rating - Scored 3 points in the first 3 quarters, got down 23-3.
63.2 QB Rating - Scored 6 points in the first 3 quarters, got down 28-6.
74.8 QB Rating
61.5 QB Rating - Scored 3 points total.

2020 Wild Card was the only year they weren't getting absolutely shut down, and Lamar threw 0 TD/1 INT for 179 yards in that game. He just went full RB and carried it 16 times.

- - - - - - -

Keep in mind this is the same team and philosphy that made some people think Joe Flacco was elite. Flacco was 72-40 in his first 7 years there and won at least 1 playoff game each of his first 5 years, including a SB. 

The Ravens have always been a team that will play amazing defense, have a good running game, and make their QBs look better than they are with a lot of wins.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-01-2024, 05:21 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 78.8 QB Rating - Scored 3 points in the first 3 quarters, got down 23-3.
63.2 QB Rating - Scored 6 points in the first 3 quarters, got down 28-6.
74.8 QB Rating
61.5 QB Rating - Scored 3 points total.

2020 Wild Card was the only year they weren't getting absolutely shut down, and Lamar threw 0 TD/1 INT for 179 yards in that game. He just went full RB and carried it 16 times.

- - - - - - -

Keep in mind this is the same team and philosphy that made some people think Joe Flacco was elite. Flacco was 72-40 in his first 7 years there and won at least 1 playoff game each of his first 5 years, including a SB. 

The Ravens have always been a team that will play amazing defense, have a good running game, and make their QBs look better than they are with a lot of wins.

but difference is how have ravens done without Lamar.. it is pretty obvious they are not the same team without him, when healthy he has been a top 5 QB with his dual threats.. and is in line for MVP this year...

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-01-2024, 05:28 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: but difference is how have ravens done without Lamar.. it is pretty obvious they are not  the same team without him, when healthy he has been a top 5 QB with his dual threats.. and is in line for MVP this year...

Only due to greatly reduced expectations because his play is exciting.

3,614 yards, 21 TD/8 INT, 94.7 QB Rating
4,280 yards, 31 TD/11 INT, 113.0 QB Rating
3,907 yards, 28 TD/10 INT, 95.9 QB Rating
3,678 yards, 24 TD/7 INT, 102.7 QB Rating
4,255 yards, 28 TD/12 INT, 96.4 QB Rating
4,451 yards, 28 TD/12 INT, 103.0 QB Rating
4,237 yards, 32 TD/8 INT, 104.2 QB Rating
3,844 yards, 21 TD/5 INT, 99.0 QB Rating

All of those statlines are QBs who are either in the playoffs or have solid chances to make the playoffs. Only one of those guys are being called an MVP favorite. Heck there's two QBs with 15 rushing TDs each this season and they aren't even on that list.

Despite Lamar having low passing yards in his MVP season, he at least led the NFL in passing TDs, had a 113.3 QB Rating, and had 1,200 rushing yards at like 7 yards per carry despite only playing 15 games. That was a real MVP season, he's only being called the favorite this year because he has a great team around him and has name power that people like to hype up. 

Good season in 2023? Yes. MVP season? No.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-01-2024, 07:19 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Only due to greatly reduced expectations because his play is exciting.

3,614 yards, 21 TD/8 INT, 94.7 QB Rating
4,280 yards, 31 TD/11 INT, 113.0 QB Rating
3,907 yards, 28 TD/10 INT, 95.9 QB Rating
3,678 yards, 24 TD/7 INT, 102.7 QB Rating
4,255 yards, 28 TD/12 INT, 96.4 QB Rating
4,451 yards, 28 TD/12 INT, 103.0 QB Rating
4,237 yards, 32 TD/8 INT, 104.2 QB Rating
3,844 yards, 21 TD/5 INT, 99.0 QB Rating

All of those statlines are QBs who are either in the playoffs or have solid chances to make the playoffs. Only one of those guys are being called an MVP favorite. Heck there's two QBs with 15 rushing TDs each this season and they aren't even on that list.

Despite Lamar having low passing yards in his MVP season, he at least led the NFL in passing TDs, had a 113.3 QB Rating, and had 1,200 rushing yards at like 7 yards per carry despite only playing 15 games. That was a real MVP season, he's only being called the favorite this year because he has a great team around him and has name power that people like to hype up. 

Good season in 2023? Yes. MVP season? No.

, your not changing my position and im not changing yours, so moving on .