Glass half full...from a normally glass half empty guy... future outlook

[740Bengal]

For the Bengals to play the way they did with Jake Browning and the injuries we dealt with this season, this gives me great hope moving forward if we can keep 9 heathy and continue to build the offensive line. Chase Brown is the back of the future and I also think Yoshi can step up with the probably imminent departure of Tyler Boyd... I think the Bengals tag Higgins and we put all of our chips on the table to make a run at a Lombardi next season in New Orleans(storybook). I think Lou's defense this season(not his fault) will allow us to possibly retain him as well, just need Zac to continue to improve(he has) as a playcaller and the Bengals will be right back in the mix next season! I also believe Burrow being out was a blessing in disguise possibly for him mentally, he could step back and see the offense with Browning, with the less audibles etc.

[TecmoBengals]

The Zac Taylor and Joe Burrow span of Bengals football has made me become a "glass half full" guy but prior to that I wasn't even a "glass half empty" fan.

I basically viewed the glass as knocked off the table and shattered all over the floor. My fandom, starting in 1987, and prior to the first playoff win in a long time under Zac, had comprised way too much disappointment.

A Word Cloud expressing my misery would include some of the following:

49'ers
Klingler
Akili
Coslet
Dave Shula
Big Daddy Bust
Ki-Jana's knee
Jeff Query
3-13
4-12

[WeezyBengal]

Team can still be in contention but it's going to take a really good off-season and money spent by the organization. They need to fill holes with quality players in free agency.

[Sled21]

(01-02-2024, 03:13 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: The Zac Taylor and Joe Burrow span of Bengals football has made me become a "glass half full" guy but prior to that I wasn't even a "glass half empty" fan.

I basically viewed the glass as knocked off the table and shattered all over the floor. My fandom, starting in 1987, and prior to the first playoff win in a long time under Zac, had comprised way too much disappointment.

A Word Cloud expressing my misery would include some of the following:

49'ers
Klingler
Akili
Coslet
Dave Shula
Big Daddy Bust
Ki-Jana's knee
Jeff Query
3-13
4-12

Cook's shoulder
Palmers Knee
Dalton's thumb

[NUGDUKWE]

(01-02-2024, 02:24 PM)740Bengal Wrote: For the Bengals to play the way they did with Jake Browning and the injuries we dealt with this season, this gives me great hope moving forward if we can keep 9 heathy and continue to build the offensive line.  Chase Brown is the back of the future and I also think Yoshi can step up with the probably imminent departure of Tyler Boyd... I think the Bengals tag Higgins and we put all of our chips on the table to make a run at a Lombardi next season in New Orleans(storybook). I think Lou's defense this season(not his fault) will allow us to possibly retain him as well, just need Zac to continue to improve(he has) as a playcaller and the Bengals will be right back in the mix next season! I also believe Burrow being out was a blessing in disguise possibly for him mentally, he could step back and see the offense with Browning, with the less audibles etc.

I'm in the negative camp but I'm sure I'll move to more positive as we go thru the off season. Burrow is a question mark going forward and I'm really hoping his wrist turns out good. I've all but given up on the Burrow can learn from the offense we were running with Browning. Unless we stopped to save it for next year because we went back to the same offense after the two positive starts. I guess we were literally running the same pass concepts to end the game against the Chiefs that we lost to them with in the AFCCG last year. I'm really hoping we were not trying to tip our hand for the future because if we are running the same concepts with Browning that we lost using with Burrow in an attempt to legitimately beat the Chiefs that is idiotic. I'll hold out hope but I'm not very confident.  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-02-2024, 03:13 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: The Zac Taylor and Joe Burrow span of Bengals football has made me become a "glass half full" guy but prior to that I wasn't even a "glass half empty" fan.

I basically viewed the glass as knocked off the table and shattered all over the floor. My fandom, starting in 1987, and prior to the first playoff win in a long time under Zac, had comprised way too much disappointment.

A Word Cloud expressing my misery would include some of the following:

49'ers
Klingler
Akili
Coslet
Dave Shula
Big Daddy Bust
Ki-Jana's knee
Jeff Query
3-13
4-12

Don't forget 2-14!

[bengals1969]

(01-02-2024, 02:24 PM)740Bengal Wrote: For the Bengals to play the way they did with Jake Browning and the injuries we dealt with this season, this gives me great hope moving forward if we can keep 9 heathy and continue to build the offensive line.  Chase Brown is the back of the future and I also think Yoshi can step up with the probably imminent departure of Tyler Boyd... I think the Bengals tag Higgins and we put all of our chips on the table to make a run at a Lombardi next season in New Orleans(storybook). I think Lou's defense this season(not his fault) will allow us to possibly retain him as well, just need Zac to continue to improve(he has) as a playcaller and the Bengals will be right back in the mix next season! I also believe Burrow being out was a blessing in disguise possibly for him mentally, he could step back and see the offense with Browning, with the less audibles etc.

Im not surprised the Bengals had a down year, the division has studied the Bengals and put together teams to beat them.  
Burrow was never himself this year.
We reaped the effects of his giant contract when we lost Bell and Bates leading to  our big play numbers exploding.
We didn't attend to the running game in past drafts and have become one dimensional and predictable on offense.

These are fixable 2024 problems in FA and the draft.  Maybe some stale coaching is a problem as well, again fixable.  

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-03-2024, 11:31 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I'm in the negative camp but I'm sure I'll move to more positive as we go thru the off season. Burrow is a question mark going forward and I'm really hoping his wrist turns out good. I've all but given up on the Burrow can learn from the offense we were running with Browning. Unless we stopped to save it for next year because we went back to the same offense after the two positive starts. I guess we were literally running the same pass concepts to end the game against the Chiefs that we lost to them with in the AFCCG last year. I'm really hoping we were not trying to tip our hand for the future because if we are running the same concepts with Browning that we lost using with Burrow in an attempt to legitimately beat the Chiefs that is idiotic. I'll hold out hope but I'm not very confident.  

1. How is Burrow a question mark, after two freak injuries? His wrist will be fine.
2. What is the bolded supposed to mean? That he is stubborn and won't go with what works? What makes you think he won't modify things if they work better? What has he shown/demonstrated that he feels that way?

It's amazing how obtusely the mind thinks.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-02-2024, 03:29 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Team can still be in contention but it's going to take a really good off-season and money spent by the organization. They need to fill holes with quality players in free agency.

Yep they could lose some key cogs this offseason in Higgins (WR2), Boyd (slot WR), Reader (NT), and Jonah (RT).

Yes, some seem to have no issues letting Boyd and even Jonah walk to try to find a replacement, but it is possible to get worse at those positions based on the guys they currently have and the uncertainty that comes with a draft pick or new FA filling that spot instead.
Look at Nick Scott/Jordan Battle replacing Vonn Bell as an example.

Bengals will also likely be losing Chido, but some/many think that backfill is essentially covered in Turner's growth.
However, even if Turner gets promoted after Chido's departure, CB typically has injuries and thus quality depth is needed there.
It's possible the Bengals get worse at CB.

The Bengals do have the ability to tag one player if they need/want to reduce the need for replacements, and I would think they'd try to retain (at least) one of the incumbent guys mentioned above aside from whoever gets tagged, but I do think we'll see (at least) two departures.
We can't have the Bengals thinking guys like Irv Smith or Nick Scott will be quality replacements if any of the key guys leave. That's a recipe for disaster.

[Millhouse]

I"ll wait and see what happens in next few months, as these will be crucial going forward. If Bengals stick to their "model model" and make few changes to anything other than trying to replace the ufas, I will lean towards a half glass empty going forward.

[NUGDUKWE]

(01-03-2024, 01:07 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: 1. How is Burrow a question mark, after two freak injuries? His wrist will be fine.
2. What is the bolded supposed to mean? That he is stubborn and won't go with what works? What makes you think he won't modify things if they work better? What has he shown/demonstrated that he feels that way?

It's amazing how obtusely the mind thinks.

1. I just think a wrist injury is scary for a Quarterback and a big unknown as it's not an injury we've seen a QB deal with ( I may be wrong ). 
2. I guess I did leave that fairly vague. I have all but given up hope that Burrow audibling out of plays is even a thing. We gave Taylor and Co. all this credit after Jax and Indy and wondered if that was the offense and if Burrow audibles out. I was never really sold on this but now that we completely reverted back it seems more likely to me the changes we saw in those two games were more just trying to get Browning up to speed to run the offense we normally do. If anything after the KC game it showed why we need Burrow to change the play. The offense got stuck in some bad plays that we could've used the ability to change out of them. 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-03-2024, 02:03 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: 1. I just think a wrist injury is scary for a Quarterback and a big unknown as it's not an injury we've seen a QB deal with ( I may be wrong ). 
2. I guess I did leave that fairly vague. I have all but given up hope that Burrow audibling out of plays is even a thing. We gave Taylor and Co. all this credit after Jax and Indy and wondered if that was the offense and if Burrow audibles out. I was never really sold on this but now that we completely reverted back it seems more likely to me the changes we saw in those two games were more just trying to get Browning up to speed to run the offense we normally do. If anything after the KC game it showed why we need Burrow to change the play. The offense got stuck in some bad plays that we could've used the ability to change out of them. 

Thanks for clarifying: I still think that it is a strange way to think: we aren't in meetings or helping draw up the plays or anything and Burrow does have a winning record in his career, so it's not like he's severely hurting the team or anything.

I think many are discounting just how much the calf held us back in the beginning of the year.

[Sled21]

(01-03-2024, 02:03 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: 1. I just think a wrist injury is scary for a Quarterback and a big unknown as it's not an injury we've seen a QB deal with ( I may be wrong ). 
2. I guess I did leave that fairly vague. I have all but given up hope that Burrow audibling out of plays is even a thing. We gave Taylor and Co. all this credit after Jax and Indy and wondered if that was the offense and if Burrow audibles out. I was never really sold on this but now that we completely reverted back it seems more likely to me the changes we saw in those two games were more just trying to get Browning up to speed to run the offense we normally do. If anything after the KC game it showed why we need Burrow to change the play. The offense got stuck in some bad plays that we could've used the ability to change out of them. 

I saw a clip of Burrow walking out off the field at Burrowhead and raising his right hand to high five fans. My first thought was please no one grab it, then the second thought is he's not protecting it, so it must be ok.

[NUGDUKWE]

(01-03-2024, 03:46 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I saw a clip of Burrow walking out off the field at Burrowhead and raising his right hand to high five fans. My first thought was please no one grab it, then the second thought is he's not protecting it, so it must be ok.

Okay I didn't see that. I'm glad it's improving quickly and I'm sure I will be more at ease later in the offseason when he starts to throw.

[Soonerpeace]

(01-03-2024, 11:31 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I'm in the negative camp but I'm sure I'll move to more positive as we go thru the off season. Burrow is a question mark going forward and I'm really hoping his wrist turns out good. I've all but given up on the Burrow can learn from the offense we were running with Browning. Unless we stopped to save it for next year because we went back to the same offense after the two positive starts. I guess we were literally running the same pass concepts to end the game against the Chiefs that we lost to them with in the AFCCG last year. I'm really hoping we were not trying to tip our hand for the future because if we are running the same concepts with Browning that we lost using with Burrow in an attempt to legitimately beat the Chiefs that is idiotic. I'll hold out hope but I'm not very confident.  

You’re in the negative? I’ll attest to that. LOL ?
Let’s look at the offense vs KC vs their average with a backup.
KC Def 16.8 points given up at home. Cincy 17. KC First Downs 17.4 Cincy 20.
KC Defense third down conversions 4.8 Cincy 8
KC Def opponent TOP 29.18 Cincy 34.17
KC Def Opp first downs per play 0.288. Cincy 0.281
KC Total Defense 285.8 Cincy 263
KC Sacks 3.4 against Cincy 6.
We also didn’t have full strength Tee or Chase against KC.

Not signaling out you necessarily but my thoughts. Anybody is naive if you think these coaches on offense aren’t trying to win and make the playoffs and frankly stupid. They aren’t going to say let’s not use what’s been successful against the Colts, Vikings, SF, Buffalo, or Jags. They look at film and the entire offensive staff and analysts are going to formulate a game plan based on the opponents defense and our matchup advantage or disadvantages.

The RPO’s and Play action not very successful with a crap running game. Start there. It also takes more time. As far as blaming Joe or the coaches for the lack of under center full stop. It’s probably both. You know they are tailoring the offense to Joe. Blame them for being the Indians not the Chiefs. Blame Joe for not recognizing there’s some things he needs to rethink.

bengals1969: the division is better. Baltimore improved their weakness at WR and their OC and of course a healthy Lamar. I’m not saying teams don’t focus on the division but really it’s just improving their team period. Cleveland is a bad matchup with them so physically better in the trenches. If you want to say we need to be better in the trenches? Oh hell yes but it’s versus everybody. Their 11 wins isn’t just for us. Only 1 win versus us. The mantra the division has caught up with us? They are just improved. Pittsburg had a somewhat outlier game versus us but we’ve struggled in protection a lot of times against them not just this year.

The OL was protecting better when Joe went down. We’d made the playoffs how far would have simply rested on protection for Joe and the defense playing better. For next year the defense especially against the rush and big plays has to get better. The run game needs to improve for the viability of the whole offense.

[NUGDUKWE]

(01-03-2024, 04:16 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: You’re in the negative? I’ll attest to that. LOL ?
Let’s look at the offense vs KC vs their average with a backup.
KC Def 16.8 points given up at home. Cincy 17. KC First Downs 17.4 Cincy 20.
KC Defense third down conversions 4.8 Cincy 8
KC Def opponent TOP 29.18 Cincy 34.17
KC Def Opp first downs per play 0.288. Cincy 0.281
KC Total Defense 285.8 Cincy 263
KC Sacks 3.4 against Cincy 6.
We also didn’t have full strength Tee or Chase against KC.

Not signaling out you necessarily but my thoughts. Anybody is naive if you think these coaches on offense aren’t trying to win and make the playoffs and frankly stupid. They aren’t going to say let’s not use what’s been successful against the Colts, Vikings, SF, Buffalo, or Jags. They look at film and the entire offensive staff and analysts are going to formulate a game plan based on the opponents defense and our matchup advantage or disadvantages.

The RPO’s and Play action not very successful with a crap running game. Start there. It also takes more time. As far as blaming Joe or the coaches for the lack of under center full stop. It’s probably both. You know they are tailoring the offense to Joe. Blame them for being the Indians not the Chiefs. Blame Joe for not recognizing there’s some things he needs to rethink.

bengals1969: the division is better. Baltimore improved their weakness at WR and their OC and of course a healthy Lamar. I’m not saying teams don’t focus on the division but really it’s just improving their team period. Cleveland is a bad matchup with them so physically better in the trenches. If you want to say we need to be better in the trenches? Oh hell yes but it’s versus everybody. Their 11 wins isn’t just for us. Only 1 win versus us. The mantra the division has caught up with us? They are just improved. Pittsburg had a somewhat outlier game versus us but we’ve struggled in protection a lot of times against them not just this year.

The OL was protecting better when Joe went down. We’d made the playoffs how far would have simply rested on protection for Joe and the defense playing better. For next year the defense especially against the rush and big plays has to get better. The run game needs to improve for the viability of the whole offense.

Well I would assume the coaches are always trying to win. But when you appear to tweek the offense by giving Browning more half field reads and increase play action appear to schemes pass routes for single players and then not only does Browning respond well but the whole team does I just don't understand going back to counting on him to read the whole field again as Burrow would do. I get different teams different matchups but we struggled against the Steelers the 1st go round did we think the same plan would work with Browning having more experience? I mean we had the tape of Minnesota and he still appeared to be really struggling to read the safeties as he was against Pitt the 1st game so you could see he hadn't improved much at all. 
Then against KC yes we did score some and more the ball. But the offense>defense for the reason we lost the game and not all that great when the defense didn't play all that well. But when we don't score at all in the 2nd half and we start taking sacks and it appears no one is open you would tend to tip your hat to the defense. But then when you watch the breakdown and they say that we are running the same passing concepts that we did in the AFCCG that failed and we lost with Burrow. What do you think it is running those same concepts now with Browning? It's either you don't want to tip your hand or it's idiotic? I mean it's that simple you can't ask Browning to do something that wasn't working with Burrow and realistically expect it to succeed can you? Just to be clear I do not blame Burrow for any of our problems. 

[Soonerpeace]

(01-03-2024, 06:54 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Well I would assume the coaches are always trying to win. But when you appear to tweek the offense by giving Browning more half field reads and increase play action appear to schemes pass routes for single players and then not only does Browning respond well but the whole team does I just don't understand going back to counting on him to read the whole field again as Burrow would do. I get different teams different matchups but we struggled against the Steelers the 1st go round did we think the same plan would work with Browning having more experience? I mean we had the tape of Minnesota and he still appeared to be really struggling to read the safeties as he was against Pitt the 1st game so you could see he hadn't improved much at all. 
Then against KC yes we did score some and more the ball. But the offense>defense for the reason we lost the game and not all that great when the defense didn't play all that well. But when we don't score at all in the 2nd half and we start taking sacks and it appears no one is open you would tend to tip your hat to the defense. But then when you watch the breakdown and they say that we are running the same passing concepts that we did in the AFCCG that failed and we lost with Burrow. What do you think it is running those same concepts now with Browning? It's either you don't want to tip your hand or it's idiotic? I mean it's that simple you can't ask Browning to do something that wasn't working with Burrow and realistically expect it to succeed can you? Just to be clear I do not blame Burrow for any of our problems. 

You are going to have to elaborate more?

[NUGDUKWE]

(01-03-2024, 07:39 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: You are going to have to elaborate more?

Well I'm not gonna pretend to be a scholar of the game. As such I tend not to criticize play calling as many have said there are too many variables. I tend to keep my criticism to situational football which I think we need to get better. But I watch Goodberrys breakdowns and I really enjoy them. He is someone who tends to not criticize playcalling and is a fan of Taylor. But he pointed out that we were running the same concept against KC that we did in the AFCCG game. KC was just doubling Chase and Higgins if he was out there and playing man on everyone else. We had no answer to it. Probably why in the AFCCG we were making progress with Boyd but once he went out we really struggled. So as I said if the defense stops us you tip your hat but if you find out the defense is stopping you and your running the same plays that they stopped you with before it makes you wonder. Are we holding back? Are we really that uncreative to come up with a new gameplan? If it's because Browning is in then asking him to do what Burrow could not is extremely unrealistic. 

[Soonerpeace]

(01-03-2024, 07:56 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Well I'm not gonna pretend to be a scholar of the game. As such I tend not to criticize play calling as many have said there are too many variables. I tend to keep my criticism to situational football which I think we need to get better. But I watch Goodberrys breakdowns and I really enjoy them. He is someone who tends to not criticize playcalling and is a fan of Taylor. But he pointed out that we were running the same concept against KC that we did in the AFCCG game. KC was just doubling Chase and Higgins if he was out there and playing man on everyone else. We had no answer to it. Probably why in the AFCCG we were making progress with Boyd but once he went out we really struggled. So as I said if the defense stops us you tip your hat but if you find out the defense is stopping you and your running the same plays that they stopped you with before it makes you wonder. Are we holding back? Are we really that uncreative to come up with a new gameplan? If it's because Browning is in then asking him to do what Burrow could not is extremely unrealistic. 

I listened to his YouTube. He was pretty critical of the OL & Browning. He liked the first half. We didn’t score the second half. That has to be on the players and coaches. He said that. He said we got out coached the second half duh! I’d encourage you to DM him on twitter he’s pretty positive about our offense. Yes he thinks Joe bails us out a lot but all the great ones do. Again Tony Romo was pretty positive too and it wasn’t filler for the game. The game plan was pretty simple for Jake vs the others. I’m sure they felt he could take on more. If they are doubling Chase and Tee it’s more of a personnel issue. We’ve obviously got to address that.

[Soonerpeace]

(01-03-2024, 07:56 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Well I'm not gonna pretend to be a scholar of the game. As such I tend not to criticize play calling as many have said there are too many variables. I tend to keep my criticism to situational football which I think we need to get better. But I watch Goodberrys breakdowns and I really enjoy them. He is someone who tends to not criticize playcalling and is a fan of Taylor. But he pointed out that we were running the same concept against KC that we did in the AFCCG game. KC was just doubling Chase and Higgins if he was out there and playing man on everyone else. We had no answer to it. Probably why in the AFCCG we were making progress with Boyd but once he went out we really struggled. So as I said if the defense stops us you tip your hat but if you find out the defense is stopping you and your running the same plays that they stopped you with before it makes you wonder. Are we holding back? Are we really that uncreative to come up with a new gameplan? If it's because Browning is in then asking him to do what Burrow could not is extremely unrealistic. 

And I’ll add. He mentioned Joe saves us a lot. All the top QB’s do and why Jake’s a backup. And further all the internet scrutizers were critiquing the heck out of Andy Reid WITH Mahomes the 3 games we’ve beat them and several game stretch this year.