January 8th mock no trade

[Jpoore]

I like this draft but REALLY want a trade back to get more top 100 picks.

18- jerhan newton 3-tech Illinois

49-t’vondre sweat NT Texas

80- Cade stover te osu

114- Christian mohogany OG bc

145- Zac zinter OG michigian

176- roger rosengarten OT Washington

210- Jaquan Shepard cb Maryland.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-08-2024, 11:49 PM)Jpoore Wrote: I like this draft but REALLY want a trade back to get more top 100 picks.

18- jerhan newton 3-tech Illinois

49-t’vondre sweat NT Texas

80- Cade stover te osu

114- Christian mohogany OG bc

145- Zac zinter OG michigian

176- roger rosengarten OT Washington

210- Jaquan Shepard cb Maryland.

As long as the Bengals cover RT and WR in FA, I would love this draft bruh.

[kalibengal]

(01-09-2024, 11:39 AM)ochocincos Wrote: As long as the Bengals cover RT and WR in FA, I would love this draft bruh.

I still think we need to add a legit edge rusher on left side 
Id love if they added JAGS Josh Allen in FA. Him a Trey would be a leathal combo

[*Synric*]

All your mocks are starting to look very similar.

[Whatever]

So, we just missed the playoffs and our top three picks are going to go to positions that have long learning curves and rookies struggle to make significant contributions?

[Whatever]

(01-09-2024, 12:22 PM)Synric Wrote: All your mocks are starting to look very similar.

On a somewhat related note, how do you see Newton holding up in the AFCN?  He is a bit undersized and his arm length is a big issue.  I question how well he will hold up in a run heavy AFCN.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-09-2024, 11:44 AM)kalibengal Wrote: I still think we need to add a legit edge rusher on left side 
Id love if they added JAGS Josh Allen in FA. Him a Trey would be a leathal combo

The reality is the Bengals can't address every single need. At least that's my view.
Bengals still have 5 DEs under contract in 2024 - Hubbard, Hendrickson, Murphy, Sample, and Ossai
They are not going to add a good starter caliber guy with the guys they already have.
If they add anyone, it will be just a rotational guy who we probably shouldn't expect more than a few sacks from, best case. And that person would be competing with Ossai and Sample for that final spot.

The positions they have to worry about going into FA/draft:
- starting RT (Williams hitting FA)
- OL depth (Ford, Scharping hitting FA)
- starting WR2 (Higgins likely hitting FA or getting tagged)
- starting slot WR (Boyd hitting FA)
- All TE spots (all TEs hitting FA)
- RB upgrade perhaps (Williams set to hit FA)
- starting NT (Reader set to hit FA)
- backup NT (Tupou set to hit FA)
- rotational/future starting UT (Carter hasn't shown enough in 2 years)
- LB depth (Bailey and ADG both set to hit FA)
- DB depth (At least Awuzie hitting FA)
- P (Robbins sucked)
- LS (Adomitis hitting FA)

I'm sure some of those guys are going to be re-signed, but some will depart.
My expectation (or at least worry) is that there won't be enough draft picks after FA to fill and improve every position still.
We're going to have to deal with some positions being just ok with who they got.

[Jpoore]

(01-09-2024, 01:33 PM)Whatever Wrote: So, we just missed the playoffs and our top three picks are going to go to positions that have long learning curves and rookies struggle to make significant contributions?

I disagree that DT has a long learning curve… like most dline it will take some time to put everything together, but we’re so weak there they should get immediate snaps. Same with TE. Instant impact. Nowhere else will we be able to provide instant impact,

[Whatever]

(01-09-2024, 03:21 PM)Jpoore Wrote: I disagree that DT has a long learning curve… like most dline it will take some time to put everything together, but we’re so weak there they should get immediate snaps. Same with TE. Instant impact. Nowhere else will we be able to provide instant impact,

Chris Jones started 11 games as a rookie and had 2 sacks.  Justin Madubuike had a combined 14 starts his first two years and totalled 3 sacks. Christian Wilkins had 3.5 across 26 starts his first two years.  Those are your top names in UFA this year.  Occasionally, there are freaks like Carter and Donald that come out and wreck people immediately, but usually, you suffer through a year or two of subpar play trying to develop them.  

Sure, the TE with a 4th round grade that you're reaching for in the third of probably the worst TE draft in over a decade is going to be the exception to the slow returns rule for TE's.  

[Hammerstripes]

(01-09-2024, 01:33 PM)Whatever Wrote: So, we just missed the playoffs and our top three picks are going to go to positions that have long learning curves and rookies struggle to make significant contributions?

Short term answers come in free agency, mid to long in the draft.  You can't count on a rookie to come in and contribute immediately.  We used to do that and we got burned by it over and over.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-09-2024, 01:33 PM)Whatever Wrote: So, we just missed the playoffs and our top three picks are going to go to positions that have long learning curves and rookies struggle to make significant contributions?

every position has a learning curve, most of the time it is less the position but the ability of the player drafted

[Essex Johnson]

(01-09-2024, 07:14 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Short term answers come in free agency, mid to long in the draft.  You can't count on a rookie to come in and contribute immediately.  We used to do that and we got burned by it over and over.

?? we got burned in FA also.. Collin,Scott and Smith are the three most recent

[Jpoore]

(01-09-2024, 03:55 PM)Whatever Wrote: Chris Jones started 11 games as a rookie and had 2 sacks.  Justin Madubuike had a combined 14 starts his first two years and totalled 3 sacks. Christian Wilkins had 3.5 across 26 starts his first two years.  Those are your top names in UFA this year.  Occasionally, there are freaks like Carter and Donald that come out and wreck people immediately, but usually, you suffer through a year or two of subpar play trying to develop them.  

Sure, the TE with a 4th round grade that you're reaching for in the third of probably the worst TE draft in over a decade is going to be the exception to the slow returns rule for TE's.  

Couple things… Wilkins, jones, and Madibuike, all went to established IDL rooms. That’s not the case here. Furthermore regarding stover he’s my te2, the consensus te3. He is being criminally undervalued.

[*Synric*]

(01-09-2024, 01:44 PM)Whatever Wrote: On a somewhat related note, how do you see Newton holding up in the AFCN?  He is a bit undersized and his arm length is a big issue.  I question how well he will hold up in a run heavy AFCN.

Johnny Newton and Byron Murphy are gonna be guys to keep and eye on during the process. Both shorter guys with less length but amazing hands, leverage, and a solid first step. They are gonna have to beat certain benchmarks during testing because of the size issue. One example is the 10 yard split. They will need to come in under the average which is like 1.71.


Newton is peobabaly going to be a better pass rusher than run defender especially out of thr gate. Like most 3Ts size is an issue against doubles but Newton does a good job of forcing the double and keeping them occupied so they don't combo and climb every time. They are probabaly not gonna shade at times like the Bengals do with BJ Hill.

[Jpoore]

(01-10-2024, 08:01 AM)Synric Wrote: Johnny Newton and Byron Murphy are gonna be guys to keep and eye on during the process. Both shorter guys with less length but amazing hands, leverage, and a solid first step. They are gonna have to beat certain benchmarks during testing because of the size issue. One example is the 10 yard split. They will need to come in under the average which is like 1.71.


Newton is peobabaly going to be a better pass rusher than run defender especially out of thr gate. Like most 3Ts size is an issue against doubles but Newton does a good job of forcing the double and keeping them occupied so they don't combo and climb every time. They are probabaly not gonna shade at times like the Bengals do with BJ Hill.

Newton has insane agility which also helps

[Whatever]

(01-09-2024, 09:59 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Couple things… Wilkins, jones, and Madibuike, all went to established IDL rooms. That’s not the case here. Furthermore regarding stover he’s my te2, the consensus te3. He is being criminally undervalued.

Wilkins started 26 of a possible 32 games his first two years and Jones started 11 games his rookie year, so I'm not seeing how that's an argument.  Hill is a decent starter with a significant contract and will likely make most, if not all, of the starts at 3 tech, while Newton is a rotational pass rusher/package player.

Dude, you have a track record for grading Ohio State guys at least 2 rounds too high(see your mock with Williams in the first).  It's not a surprise to anybody that you have a Buckeye with a consensus 4th round grade grader as a 2nd rounder.  

[Whatever]

(01-09-2024, 07:38 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: every position has a learning curve, most of the time it is less the position but the ability of the player drafted

I'm simply stating what the trends are.  Is your point that DT's and TE's have less talent than players at other positions and that's why they tend to be slow starters?  

[Jpoore]

(01-10-2024, 04:14 PM)Whatever Wrote: Wilkins started 26 of a possible 32 games his first two years and Jones started 11 games his rookie year, so I'm not seeing how that's an argument.  Hill is a decent starter with a significant contract and will likely make most, if not all, of the starts at 3 tech, while Newton is a rotational pass rusher/package player.

Dude, you have a track record for grading Ohio State guys at least 2 rounds too high(see your mock with Williams in the first).  It's not a surprise to anybody that you have a Buckeye with a consensus 4th round grade grader as a 2nd rounder.  

Y’all said the same shit with dawand jones… sure would love to have him right now huh? Cade stover is a do it all te, a great at everything te, would INSTANTLY be te1, and the consensus te3 in draft. Te 2 on some name brand scouters.

[Whatever]

(01-11-2024, 01:06 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Y’all said the same shit with dawand jones… sure would love to have him right now huh? Cade stover is a do it all te, a great at everything te, would INSTANTLY be te1, and the consensus te3 in draft. Te 2 on some name brand scouters.

And y'all said the same shit about Wyatt Davis.  Seriously, Jones has been mediocre at best in an offense practically designed to cover up his weaknesses, isn't a scheme fit, and has a season ending knee injury.  Why would anyone in their right mind want him here?

Gee, if Stover is all that, why isn't he in 1st round consideration? Maybe because the people doing the rankings actually watch teams other than Ohio State. Just give the Buckeye homer takes a rest.

[Jpoore]

(01-11-2024, 11:49 AM)Whatever Wrote: And y'all said the same shit about Wyatt Davis.  Seriously, Jones has been mediocre at best in an offense practically designed to cover up his weaknesses, isn't a scheme fit, and has a season ending knee injury.  Why would anyone in their right mind want him here?

Gee, if Stover is all that, why isn't he in 1st round consideration? Maybe because the people doing the rankings actually watch teams other than Ohio State. Just give the Buckeye homer takes a rest.

Stover is hated bc of the history at Ohio state. Same reason Bryce young was the number 1 consensus pick when anyone with half a brain cell saw that cj stroud was better… stover isn’t elite athleticism which apparently is all teams care about anymore. He’s a phenomenal football player. But he’s not in the Kyle pitts realm so he gets downgraded.