Dax Hill

[Big_Ern]

Well, at least he'll be affordable

[leonardfan40]

Didn’t like the pick from the start, but we’ve got to give him another year to hopefully show he can play at this level. I’d definitely like a better backup plan next season so it’s not Dax or bust.

I loved the Battle pick, luckily he had a very solid rookie year and will hopefully improve even more next season. That’ll make a miss on Dax easier to handle if he doesn’t improve next year.

[SunsetBengal]

CTB took the lead on the issues with the secondary this season, spoke of a general lack of communication, the type of communication that existed the year before when the secondary was led by a pair of veteran Safeties. I think that it's much too soon to be trying to play "pin the tail on the donkey" and attempting to lay blame on any individual player for the faults of an entire unit (secondary). CTB has stepped forward as the new vocal leader of this young secondary, and says that he's calling on all members of the secondary to get together and work specifically on communication this offseason.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-17-2024, 11:54 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: CTB took the lead on the issues with the secondary this season, spoke of a general lack of communication, the type of communication that existed the year before when the secondary was led by a pair of veteran Safeties.  I think that it's much too soon to be trying to play "pin the tail on the donkey" and attempting to lay blame on any individual player for the faults of an entire unit (secondary).  CTB has stepped forward as the new vocal leader of this young secondary, and says that he's calling on all members of the secondary to get together and work specifically on communication this offseason.

Nice post Sunset, I like hearing this from CTB. We need leadership in the Secondary, I know Mike brings some as well as Chido but CTB
is the future back there.

[J24]

My two cents

Hill is more of a NB/SS/LB than a true deep Safety. Now that doesn't mean he can't play deep on occasion but it shouldn't be is main position. With the way the Ravens play Hamilton at Nickle and the Lions play Branch at a Nickle. That's the way Dax should be used but not like Jessi Bates.


Also; I think Dax could be our best defensive player next season and could get some DPOY votes.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-19-2024, 04:27 PM)J24 Wrote: My two cents

Hill is more of a NB/SS/LB than a true deep Safety. Now that doesn't mean he can't play deep on occasion but it shouldn't be is main position. With the way the Ravens play Hamilton at Nickle and the Lions play Branch at a Nickle. That's the way Dax should be used but not like Jessi Bates.


Also; I think Dax could be our best defensive player next season and could get  some DPOY votes.

What do you do then this year with Hilton and Battle if Hill really isn't a fit at FS?
Battle isn't a true deep safety type either. He's more of a SS.
Hilton is a nickel CB.

My thought - Give Hill one more year to see if he can be a good FS, and if not, put him in at nickel CB in 2025 after Hilton leaves.

[*bfine32*]

We're not Make love No More was my jam

[J24]

(01-19-2024, 04:39 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What do you do then this year with Hilton and Battle if Hill really isn't a fit at FS?
Battle isn't a true deep safety type either. He's more of a SS.
Hilton is a nickel CB.

My thought - Give Hill one more year to see if he can be a good FS, and if not, put him in at nickel CB in 2025 after Hilton leaves.

I would trade or cut Hilton. Then draft, sign, or trade for a deep Safety!

[*ochocincos*]

(01-19-2024, 05:51 PM)J24 Wrote: I would trade or cut Hilton. Then draft, sign, or trade for a deep Safety!

So you're gonna basically force out a good player just to have worry about spending an early draft pick or expensive salary on a potential upgrade?

If you let go of Hilton, you're only freeing up $6.45 mill.
That's not going to get you a good deep safety.
And the Bengals will have too many other needs to take a safety in Rd 1 or Rd 2 in the draft.

Bengals have so much youth at DB now with the departures of Apple, Bates, and Bell. Awuzie also likely not returning.
Hilton will be the only veteran starter back there.
He's also familiar with the defense and has made solid impacts in the years he's been here.
You gotta keep him around for this final year.

Also, let's give Hill (and Battle) another year before writing off and looking for a replacement.
We do that way too quick with draft picks, IMO.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-19-2024, 05:51 PM)J24 Wrote: I would trade or cut Hilton. Then draft, sign, or trade for a deep Safety!

That makes 0 sense.  Why create another hole at Slot CB, for the spiteful sake of not being completely satisfied with how the new deep Safety is developing?  Dax Hill will continue to evolve, getting rid of Mike Hilton only adds to the list of positions to be filled.

[J24]

(01-19-2024, 07:54 PM)ochocincos Wrote: So you're gonna basically force out a good player just to have worry about spending an early draft pick or expensive salary on a potential upgrade?

If you let go of Hilton, you're only freeing up $6.45 mill.
That's not going to get you a good deep safety.
And the Bengals will have too many other needs to take a safety in Rd 1 or Rd 2 in the draft.

Bengals have so much youth at DB now with the departures of Apple, Bates, and Bell. Awuzie also likely not returning.
Hilton will be the only veteran starter back there.
He's also familiar with the defense and has made solid impacts in the years he's been here.
You gotta keep him around for this final year.

Also, let's give Hill (and Battle) another year before writing off and looking for a replacement.
We do that way too quick with draft picks, IMO.

1.) Hilton can't cover in man to man anymore which limits what Lou can call on defense. Replacing him with Hill gives the defense more flexability in what Lou can call. Also I think you could trade Hilton to another team for a mid rd pick or a player. 

1b.) That 6.4 million could be used for two DTs. Like A Maurice Hurst and Joseph Day combination.

2.) We will have to draft his replacement at Nickle anyways this season(or draft a safety if Hill is innfact the replacement).Considering that in all likelihood we won't resign him next off season and the Bengals like to draft players replacements a year in advance. 

2b.)Why can't we draft a Safety early? We were the 31st ranked defense for yards allowed, gave up the most yards per a pass, and yards per a play. How is any positon(except for Hendrickson) not on the chopping block this off season?

3.) Or let's  use one of our best players at his best position. Hill is a dynamic player that can cover in man to man, play elite run defense, and blitz at a high level. Let's use him properly instead of playing him deep!

[*ochocincos*]

(01-19-2024, 10:01 PM)J24 Wrote: 1.) Hilton can't cover in man to man anymore which limits what Lou can call on defense. Replacing him with Hill gives the defense more flexability in what Lou can call. Also I think you could trade Hilton to another team for a mid rd pick or a player. 

1b.) That 6.4 million could be used for two DTs. Like A Maurice Hurst and Joseph Day combination.

2.) We will have to draft his replacement at Nickle anyways this season(or draft a safety if Hill is innfact the replacement).Considering that in all likelihood we won't resign him next off season and the Bengals like to draft players replacements a year in advance. 

2b.)Why can't we draft a Safety early? We were the 31st ranked defense for yards allowed, gave up the most yards per a pass, and yards per a play. How is any positon(except for Hendrickson) not on the chopping block this off season?

3.) Or let's  use one of our best players at his best position. Hill is a dynamic player that can cover in man to man, play elite run defense, and blitz at a high level. Let's use him properly instead of playing him deep!

Bengals have already invested a 1st, two 2nds, and a 3rd round pick into DB the past 2 drafts.
That's quite a lot of early round investment to put into one position group.
Gotta let the guys see if they can turn into something before trying to add yet another replacement.

Other positions the Bengals have to worry about:
WR2 (unless they get a deal done with Higgins. Just a tag doesn't cut it)
RT
NT
UT (Hill entering final year on deal and Carter has shown far less to take that spot compared to what Hill showed at DB)
TE
RB
IOL (Scharping and Ford hitting FA plus Karras entering final year under contract)
LB (all backups are hitting FA, doubt all will be retained)

Yes, the Bengals can address some of these positions in FA, but not all will be (at least not with "good" players).
Some of these will have to be addressed with early-round picks.
If you invest an early round pick into DB, you're now bumping one of those other positions later in the draft.

My personal opinion is give these young safeties one more year to see what they can do and invest most of the draft picks toward offense and DT.
If Hill and/or Battle still not doing well by next offseason, look at getting a new safety then. You can always get a slot CB on Day 2 of the draft and have them be an immediate contributor.

[casear2727]

(01-19-2024, 10:01 PM)J24 Wrote: 1.) Hilton can't cover in man to man anymore which limits what Lou can call on defense. Replacing him with Hill gives the defense more flexability in what Lou can call. Also I think you could trade Hilton to another team for a mid rd pick or a player. 

1b.) That 6.4 million could be used for two DTs. Like A Maurice Hurst and Joseph Day combination.

2.) We will have to draft his replacement at Nickle anyways this season(or draft a safety if Hill is innfact the replacement).Considering that in all likelihood we won't resign him next off season and the Bengals like to draft players replacements a year in advance. 

2b.)Why can't we draft a Safety early? We were the 31st ranked defense for yards allowed, gave up the most yards per a pass, and yards per a play. How is any positon(except for Hendrickson) not on the chopping block this off season?

3.) Or let's  use one of our best players at his best position. Hill is a dynamic player that can cover in man to man, play elite run defense, and blitz at a high level. Let's use him properly instead of playing him deep!

Jake you would be making life hard on Lou if you got rid of his last veteran in the secondary. 

I have complained about Hiltons man defense for sometime, although he played the ball well this year.   Hilton rotated to free safety for the most reps in his career this past season and when he did they brought Dax into the box.  Perhaps we will see more of that this in 2024?  

[The D.O.Z.]

I wouldn't cut Hilton, but I WOULD start preparing for his departure. With how Hill showed at FS this year gives me little confidence going in to next season that he's the FS of the now-and-future. What if he doesn't improve as a deep safety and we're back talking about this issue again NEXT off season? Another year of LBs having to babysit. Another year of giving up MANY big plays. Another year of hoping our QB can come back healthy enough to outscore opposing teams and not being able to shut teams down in the fourth quarter? Not saying this is ALL on Dax, but playing him out of position (he's a NCB, let's stop trying to fool ourselves) isn't playing to the strengths of one of your best players, it's pounding a square peg into a round hole.

It's a real shame Nick Scott sucked so bad this year. If he would've played well, we may have seen more Dax at NCB / blitz CB. It's also a shame Tycen Anderson got hurt too, as his preseason showed he has a nose for where to be and where the ball is going. I really hope he comes back healthy, wanting FS snaps, and is willing to fight tooth and nail for it. And I hope the Bengals staff gives him a chance, a fair shake, at winning the spot.

Too many holes to fill in FA and the draft, I just don't foresee us spending any capital on a safety with what we already have rostered at present.