Joe Burrow thoughts from a hand surgeon

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-18-2024, 07:32 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Yes, it was an acute injury.  His wrist was bothering him prior and may/likely made it weaker.  Yeah, the ligament he tore was in his wrist, same wrist he was treating for some sort of discomfort immediately prior to the acute injury 

Ligament is in the HAND, not the wrist.

[*Synric*]

(01-19-2024, 10:46 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: Don't care what you mentioned.  An already sore wrist in a brace had something going on that MAY have made the tear more likely to occur.  Think of a pitcher who has a throwing motion that puts strain on a ligament then one day it had enough and pops.  You cannot say with any certainty, nor can anyone else, that Joe's throwing motion or a previous incident wasn't impacting that ligament.  Because something in his wrist required that brace he was wearing. 

This incident has already proven false by a NFL investigation which included practice footage and team medical reports. You can keep the conspiracy theory going by saying the Bengals hid it from the NFL but then it makes it exactly what it is a conspiracy theory.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-19-2024, 10:58 AM)Synric Wrote: This incident has already proven false by a NFL investigation which included practice footage and team medical reports. You can keep the conspiracy theory going by saying the Bengals hid it from the NFL but then it makes it exactly what it is a conspiracy theory.

Not to stoke the fire on this too much, but the NFL investigation actually just determined that the Bengals followed the rules as far as injury report compliance goes.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/what-is-nfl-injury-policy-rules-and-procedures-for-nfl-teams/

Quote:" A reportable injury is considered any injury that causes a player to miss a game, prevents them from finishing a game, or prevents them from completing their normal practice workload."

As long as a player didn't miss the previous game, didn't leave the previous game early, and is able to take their full load of practice reps, the injury doesn't need to be reported. So the NFL investigation was just proving that they didn't break the rules, not that Burrow wasn't already sore/hurt/injured and toughing through it with a full workload.


The "practice footage" from that week was just a walkthrough. Lol. The Bengals played on Thursday night that week. Tuesdays are NFLPA mandated days off. So all a player would do that short week is do film and walkthroughs, there aren't really any actual practices. He played 100% of the Houston snaps, so as long as Burrow was able to fully participate in watching film and doing a non-contact walkthrough, he didn't need to be on the injury report by rule.

[burreauxs]

(01-19-2024, 10:46 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: Don't care what you mentioned.  An already sore wrist in a brace had something going on that MAY have made the tear more likely to occur.  Think of a pitcher who has a throwing motion that puts strain on a ligament then one day it had enough and pops.  You cannot say with any certainty, nor can anyone else, that Joe's throwing motion or a previous incident wasn't impacting that ligament.  Because something in his wrist required that brace he was wearing. 

Lmao no one can say anything for certain. You can't say for certain that anything he was dealing with prior to the injury DID in fact predispose him to an SL lig tear. You don't know. No one has a pre-injury MRI of his wrist. Also unless he was straight up lying, Joe said it was a compression sleeve. Also soreness does not predispose you to ligament injuries. My point was, there are a lot of things that can be going on in the elbow-wrist complex that might make an athlete use a compression sleeve, but those things do not necessarily incr your risk for a lig tear. 

[Big_Ern]

(01-19-2024, 10:58 AM)Synric Wrote: This incident has already proven false by a NFL investigation which included practice footage and team medical reports. You can keep the conspiracy theory going by saying the Bengals hid it from the NFL but then it makes it exactly what it is a conspiracy theory.

The evidence didn't state he had zero wrist discomfort prior. And trust me the NFL needed that investigation to go that way for the gambling implications. There are no coincidences 

[Big_Ern]

(01-19-2024, 01:06 PM)burreauxs Wrote: Lmao no one can say anything for certain. You can't say for certain that anything he was dealing with prior to the injury DID in fact predispose him to an SL lig tear. You don't know. No one has a pre-injury MRI of his wrist. Also unless he was straight up lying, Joe said it was a compression sleeve. Also soreness does not predispose you to ligament injuries. My point was, there are a lot of things that can be going on in the elbow-wrist complex that might make an athlete use a compression sleeve, but those things do not necessarily incr your risk for a lig tear. 

That's why I said plausible in my first post. 

[grampahol]

At least he didn't have to go to urgent care to have surgery..We'd be calling him Joey Hook by now..  Doctors in those places are just one step away from being prison doctors. In some cases they actually have side gigs as prison doctors . lol

[TecmoBengals]

(01-19-2024, 07:45 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: How many of us actually played in the NFL? If that's the case, probably only 2 of us in this forum could speak.

I watch a lot of football so I'm okay spit balling my opinions on this forum about the game and the player's performance. I've not watched medical professionals doing their work and thus I'm don't have much to say.

[grampahol]

(01-19-2024, 02:01 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I watch a lot of football so I'm okay spit balling my opinions on this forum about the game and the player's performance. I've not watched medical professionals doing their work and thus I'm don't have much to say.

I've watched surgery on me before so that at least qualifies me to run an NFL franchise and comment on saying ouch!  I'm extremely qualified to say ouch.. and cuss with impunity..  Heck..the only thing I'm missing is a couple billion dollars.. Please give generously and I'll give you all jobs in the NFL..

[WeezyBengal]

Another thing to consider is that Burrows injury will most likely have an increased chance of complete recovery because of the use of biologics or stem cells. A lot of pro athletes travel to different countries to have these kinds of procedures. I wouldn't be shocked if Joe did the same.

There were actually faint rumblings he did this with his knee.

[Big_Ern]

(01-19-2024, 10:51 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Ligament is in the HAND, not the wrist.

Point to that spot on your body and ask someone what it is?  Everyone is calling it a wrist injury

[casear2727]

(01-20-2024, 10:06 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Another thing to consider is that Burrows injury will most likely have an increased chance of complete recovery because of the use of biologics or stem cells. A lot of pro athletes travel to different countries to have these kinds of procedures. I wouldn't be shocked if Joe did the same.

There were actually faint rumblings he did this with his knee.

The surgeon quoted in the original post was asked about stem cells.  His take was very negative, he said if a professional athlete is going that route it may mean that there is not a basic, easy fix for whatever injury.....  I have zero medical knowledge, if I get time I will try to find the quote.  I was surprised by his comment.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-20-2024, 10:42 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: Point to that spot on your body and ask someone what it is?  Everyone is calling it a wrist injury

Everyone here in Ontario calls a Walleye a Pickerel: doesn't make it right.

If anything, it shows people's ignorance.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-20-2024, 03:11 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Everyone here in Ontario calls a Walleye a Pickerel: doesn't make it right.

If anything, it shows people's ignorance.

[Nepa]

(01-19-2024, 10:51 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Ligament is in the HAND, not the wrist.

All of the surgeons and societies of surgeons that I found discussing this particular ligament describe it as being in the wrist. It appears that the issue is defining a wrist.  For many authorities, the wrist includes the scaphoid and lunate bones (proximal carpal bones). For some it even includes all the carpal bones, even the distal carpal bones. I don't think I would die on the hill of it's in the hand, not the wrist, when surgeons and scientific societies are referring to it as in the wrist.

[Bengalholic]

Joe said the thing he was wearing was for compression, to prevent swelling. If I had to bet my house, I'd say the swelling concern came from him banging his hand pretty hard off a Texans player the week before. As he said, you deal with things every week in the NFL.

That's a separate issue from what happened in the Raven's game though. That was just an unfortunate freak injury.

[Big_Ern]

(01-20-2024, 03:11 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Everyone here in Ontario calls a Walleye a Pickerel: doesn't make it right.

If anything, it shows people's ignorance.

What do reporters call them?

[Savagehenry54]

(01-16-2024, 05:36 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Dr Jesse Morse adding his two cents:

One of my initial concerns after he injured his wrist was either a scapholunate ligament tear or a TFCC ligament tear.
• It was confirmed that the tore the scapholunate ligament, and Dr. Thomas Graham (Allentown, PA) performed the surgery to repair it (per @KelseyLConway)
• This injury occurs in approximately 10-30% of intra-articular distal radius fractures or carpal fractures.
• The ligament has 3 components that span between the scaphoid and lunate bones (dorsal, proximal and volar components)

What does the data show?
“The mid-term outcome after open subacute SL repair overall shows that > 70% of the patients will have a significant improvement in pain, grip strength will reach approximately 85% of the normal wrist and movement will become almost 80% of that of the normal side.”
With that being said, I’m not overly concerned about this injury as it pertains to Joe Burrow.
He should return for 2024 with no restrictions and back to 100% pre-injury.

Just some info I hadn't seen before and thought was interesting and wanted to share.

Love this, thx for posting.  Why the doom and gloom over his prospects from many of you.  Im sure everyone here knows about his grandma dropping 80 in a high school girls game and and how this guy is a straight up thoroughbred, from as good of stock athletically speaking as you're gonna find.  To me it sounds like the doctors are saying the same thing but with their smart doctor words.

If most jabrones make complete or almost complete recoveries, then Burrow will have no issues and the ligament he injured will be stronger, in a league where QBs, especially one of Burrow's face of the league level stature, have never been more protected from contact by the refs.....yea, I really doubt it's gonna be an issue going forward.

[tms]

I don't know if he was hurt going into that game. Sleeve might have just been a coincidence. But if he was, and now he's dealing with a possible career-ending injury as a direct consequence of playing through it, imagine how they'd all be feeling internally right now (doctors, coaches, players- everyone). The regret would be off the charts.

Thankfully I haven't noticed any toxic energy like that so I'm sure it's fine. Nobody "regrets" anything, accidents happen, it's just the nature of football and they assume he'll be fine. But I'd still love to see the VH1 Behind the Music on this one (now I'm dating myself lol).

[SunsetBengal]

(01-19-2024, 10:51 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Ligament is in the HAND, not the wrist.

Well, you know, the hand bone's connected to the wrist bone...