So how do you think we need to fix the defense this offseason?

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(01-21-2024, 05:38 PM)Joelist Wrote: After hearing Logan Wilson talking about how the LBers were hampered because they could not rely on the secondary being correctly positioned and also the constant flood of explosive plays we allowed in the passing game, I have to think the coaches will have fixing the communication problems as a high priority. Since it seems these issues arose at least partly from losing both Bates AND Bell because one of them apparently was making alignment calls based on what they were seeing, that function needs to be replaced with a better option. I see two options:

1) Proceed on the assumption that Battle in his development will next season have the proper recognition skills to take on the role and be effective at it. This may not be a bad thing as Battle in college was noted for good processing skills. But it is a risk of course.

2) Add a savvy veteran Safety or CB to fill this role. That would REALLY rest on who will be out there.

Obviously the other priority area is the Interior Defensive Line. We need a blue chip DT from Free Agency (and I mean a REAL blue chip not just someone who flashed a little) and probably need to double down on DT in the draft also. This can both really help our rush defense and our pass rush (by providing a source of consistent pass rush not named Trey).

What do you think? If we signed a free agent DT (Jones or other such) AND went DT in Round One would you say it is good or overkill (for example)?

Good OP.  We had a lot of problems on defense last year. I'd rank our issues in this order. 

Issue #1: The lack of experience & penchant for giving up big plays in the secondary. 

Issue #2: poor run defense. Even when Reader was healthy. 

Issue #3: Lack of pass rush from anyone not named Hendrickson. Particularly on the inside, where Carter,,Tupou, & Tufele combined for zero sacks. 

Issue #4: lack of playable DB depth, even assuming Hill & Turner improve.
--------- 

Solutions: 

#1. Secondary Issues. 

I would largely trust the process on Hill & Turner. Both showed flashes of good play. Hill is learning a new position. Battle & Hilton were fantastic. CTB is still young but had some great games (Seattle). 

Largely, I am gonna treat this as a depth issue. Losing Chido will hurt. Ditto the promising Ivey. But I think CTB, Turner, Hilton, Battle, D. Hill are your starters in 2024. 

Depending on how FA goes, and any possible additional funds we can free up, I might consider using big $$ or a high pick on a DB, but I see DT/NT, WR, & RT all clearly as more pressing needs. With 2 guys needed at DT/NT & WR (maybe 3) and 2 at RT ain't out of the question. And TE is also a need. DB depth is like 6th-8th on my to do list: 

1) Plus level WR2 (HiggIns)
2) Plus level DT/NT type (Reader/Sweat)
3) Interior pass rush (FA, Newton, Murphy)
4) Starting level RT (Draft, Jones/Brown FA) 
-------------BIg Gap 
5) WR3: Day 2 draft, discount Boyd 
6) Starting TE: Rd 2-4 draft, value FA. 
------------Big Gap 
7) DB depth or upgrade 
8) More NT help while Reader recovers
9) Punter upgrade
--------
The rest: depth upgrades at LB/IOL, perhaps a big swing at RB (King Henry addition would be higher).

Issue #2. Run defense. 

I start by bringing Reader back. He is an elite run stopper. We don't have anyone near him on the roster. There is no FA replacement. Draft is thin outside Sweat & Jackson. And we have needs on offense. 

I probably look for another NT/DT type later in the draft or a bargain FA to upgrade Tufele/Tupou/stand in for DJ. But I can live with Tupou if I have to. 

Issue #3: Interior Pass Rush. 

I think this could change the whole dynamic of our D, like King Henry could on O. If I can get DJ+Tee back for around $30 mil in cap, I can take a big swing at a FA DT (Wilkins, Madubuike, Williams). If I whiff, then that $$ gets diverted to other FA priorities (RT, King Henry, WE3, TE, CB4) and DT becomes a real possibility in Rd 2-3, maybe even Rd1 if I land Jones at OT. Newton & Murphy my top targets. Jenkins as well. All Rd2 or sooner. 

Issue #4. DB depth. 

Already covered above. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

3 big FAs + 3 rounds of draft can take the top 6, but then you are relying on Rd3 guys to fix the other stuff (DB depth, NT stand in) which is kinda iffy.

Going smaller in the 3rd FA (or getting better deals on one, most likely Reader) frees up more cap. But I woukdxalso aggressively try to restructure guts to free up more cap space. If that allows me to sign 1-2 lower priced FA's (RT, WR3, TE1, DB depth, NT depth), then I am set for the draft.

[Whatever]

(01-21-2024, 05:38 PM)Joelist Wrote: After hearing Logan Wilson talking about how the LBers were hampered because they could not rely on the secondary being correctly positioned and also the constant flood of explosive plays we allowed in the passing game, I have to think the coaches will have fixing the communication problems as a high priority. Since it seems these issues arose at least partly from losing both Bates AND Bell because one of them apparently was making alignment calls based on what they were seeing, that function needs to be replaced with a better option. I see two options:

1) Proceed on the assumption that Battle in his development will next season have the proper recognition skills to take on the role and be effective at it. This may not be a bad thing as Battle in college was noted for good processing skills. But it is a risk of course.

2) Add a savvy veteran Safety or CB to fill this role. That would REALLY rest on who will be out there.

Obviously the other priority area is the Interior Defensive Line. We need a blue chip DT from Free Agency (and I mean a REAL blue chip not just someone who flashed a little) and probably need to double down on DT in the draft also. This can both really help our rush defense and our pass rush (by providing a source of consistent pass rush not named Trey).

What do you think? If we signed a free agent DT (Jones or other such) AND went DT in Round One would you say it is good or overkill (for example)?

The young secondary should be improved with experience and another year together.  We should probably look at a vet CB for depth or in case Turner doesn't develop as expected.  If we can get Chido back on a one year deal after he had a rough one returning from injury, that would work for me.

The big thing is the pass rush needs to be improved.  Getting Murphy on the field more next year should help, but with Reader injured and due to be a FA, they probably need to look for a NT that brings more as a pass rusher.  Christian Wilkins has been mentioned a lot and he would be my top UFA priority.

A 1st or 2nd round DT probably isn't realistic for the draft unless we get more picks from somewhere.  Jonah is a UFA in a terrible FA T class, and probably needs upgraded on, anyways.  Tee will likely be FT'd and Boyd will be gone.  The Bengals ' MO on FT guys is to draft a replacement high the year of the tag.  They did it with Bates(took Hill round 1), AJ(took Higgins round 2), and Michael Johnson(took Margus Hunt round 2).  Given the strength of both positions in the draft, we are probably looking at our top two picks being OT and WR.  

[casear2727]

(01-22-2024, 11:05 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: When did Logan say that?

Logan didn't say it, Lou did.  I believe it was on Dave Lapham's podcast.

[Soonerpeace]

(01-22-2024, 03:09 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Logan didn't say it, Lou did.  I believe it was on Dave Lapham's podcast.

Thanks

[Joelist]

(01-22-2024, 03:09 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Logan didn't say it, Lou did.  I believe it was on Dave Lapham's podcast.

Thanks Caesar. I just saw this and yes it was Lou (my mistake whilst speed typing). 

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Another thing that can help the defense not mentioned a healthy running game so we can have better time of possession we were destroyed in this statistic early in the year when Burrow was hurt and late in the season when Browning hit a wall

[casear2727]

(01-22-2024, 06:10 PM)Joelist Wrote: Thanks Caesar. I just saw this and yes it was Lou (my mistake whilst speed typing). 

It's all good, you were correct as to context.

[casear2727]

(01-22-2024, 08:10 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Another thing that can help the defense not mentioned a healthy running game so we can have better time of possession we were destroyed in this statistic early in the year when Burrow was hurt and late in the season when Browning hit a wall

This and the offense being better in general.  Lou is so much better playing with a lead.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

There are some outstanding points being made all along this thread!

Personnel and scheme aside, my two cents’ worth on the defense is all about speed; the Cincinnati defense plays too slowly. I watched several playoff games last weekend and the thing I noticed about the most successful defenses is they all seem to play very fast. In doing so the defense became proactive thereby making the opposing offense reactive.

What I’ve seen from Cincinnati over the past two seasons is a more reactive defense; let’s wait too long for the play to develop, then respond to it. When the Bengals’ defense does that they’re always too late to make the play or blow it up entirely. Teams like Houston and Kansas City play very fast on offense —and don’t get me started on Baltimore.

So that’s it for me: Shed blocks faster, shoot gaps faster, respond to bubble screen plays faster, get heads turned around faster, etc.

[casear2727]

(01-23-2024, 08:23 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: There are some outstanding points being made all along this thread!  

Personnel and scheme aside, my two cents’ worth on the defense is all about speed; the Cincinnati defense plays too slowly.  I watched several playoff games last weekend and the thing I noticed about the most successful defenses is they all seem to play very fast.  In doing so the defense became proactive thereby making the opposing offense reactive.

What I’ve seen from Cincinnati over the past two seasons is a more reactive defense; let’s wait too long for the play to develop, then respond to it. When the Bengals’ defense does that they’re always too late to make the play or blow it up entirely.  Teams like Houston and Kansas City play very fast on offense —and don’t get me started on Baltimore.  

So that’s it for me: Shed blocks faster, shoot gaps faster, respond to bubble screen plays faster, get heads turned around faster, etc.

Shooting the gaps faster is dependent on quality dline play.

Lou's defense is a bend pray not to break scheme, we will always try to keep the ball in front of us.  We are not going to see a lot riskiness.

We have one of the fastest secondary rooms in the NFL.  They dont know what they are doing so their play speed isnt there, yet, hopefully yet.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(01-23-2024, 10:54 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Shooting the gaps faster is dependent on quality dline play.

Lou's defense is a bend pray not to break scheme, we will always try to keep the ball in front of us.  We are not going to see a lot riskiness.

We have one of the fastest secondary rooms in the NFL.  They dont know what they are doing so their play speed isnt there, yet, hopefully yet.

Yep. Hill, Turner, and Scott all have excellent speed. Battle outplayed them all. 

LB speed would be nice. But I just think we have bigger fish to fry. ADG is fast and Wilson & Pratt are both converted safeties in college. 

[casear2727]

(01-23-2024, 04:03 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Yep. Hill, Turner, and Scott all have excellent speed. Battle outplayed them all. 

LB speed would be nice. But I just think we have bigger fish to fry. ADG is fast and Wilson & Pratt are both converted safeties in college. 

I wonder if ADG comes back?