Bengals To Get Better Look At Senoir Bowl

[Nepa]

(01-31-2024, 10:11 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Tyler got nicked up at Oklahoma about the 9th game. OU was out of the playoffs. He was cleared to play but chose not to play pretty much and disappointed the staff and particularly his OL coach Bill Bedenbaugh. I’m sure he was trying to protect himself realizing his potential windfall. On his last game he got in the very last series on his Senior Day as his parents were probably there. Bedenbaugh has tweeted about him so the relationship is still there. I don’t think they hold it against him yet disappointed. As I’ve mentioned before Guyton has tremendous upside. I know that word is thrown around a lot but he’s not started a ton of games at RT. He was a DT in high school and converted to offensive tackle his second year after playing some H-back at TCU and TE. If he goes high it will rest on his performance at the Senior Bowl & combine. I learned that the Bengals look at video of players versus elite players. They don’t look at anything guys like Guyton did versus players that won’t play in the league.

Interesting. But I hope the Bengals don't  have to go all the way down to Tyler Guyton and expect him to protect Burrow and improve the run game. Maybe if he was a depth piece the first year, but the Bengals will need a replacement for Williams, and Guyton would not exactly be plug and play out of the gate. I hope they can get someone like JC Latham, who could probably step right into the RT position the first year. Although he may be gone by then, and Guyton would surely be gone by the 2nd round.

[*Synric*]

(01-31-2024, 10:11 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Tyler got nicked up at Oklahoma about the 9th game. OU was out of the playoffs. He was cleared to play but chose not to play pretty much and disappointed the staff and particularly his OL coach Bill Bedenbaugh. I’m sure he was trying to protect himself realizing his potential windfall. On his last game he got in the very last series on his Senior Day as his parents were probably there. Bedenbaugh has tweeted about him so the relationship is still there. I don’t think they hold it against him yet disappointed. As I’ve mentioned before Guyton has tremendous upside. I know that word is thrown around a lot but he’s not started a ton of games at RT. He was a DT in high school and converted to offensive tackle his second year after playing some H-back at TCU and TE. If he goes high it will rest on his performance at the Senior Bowl & combine. I learned that the Bengals look at video of players versus elite players. They don’t look at anything guys like Guyton did versus players that won’t play in the league.

All I know is Duke was like 5 yards from Guyton for the entire period lol.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-31-2024, 09:52 AM)Synric Wrote:

Here is every one-on-one rep for #Oklahoma RT Tyler Guyton during Day 1 of the Senior Bowl: pic.twitter.com/B60PyDRlPr

— Marcus Mosher (@Marcus_Mosher) January 30, 2024

A little work with hand placement, and that man will be a very good RT.

[Soonerpeace]

(01-31-2024, 10:23 AM)Synric Wrote: All I know is Duke was like 5 yards from Guyton for the entire period lol.

Despite shutting it down though nicked up he’s well thought of at OU for his time here. He wouldn’t be the first player to choose his future over teammates. Granted OU was out of the Big 12 Championship. Again he’s far from a finished product. Word is he whiffed bad on only one rep but my understanding the scouts don’t worry about 1 or 2 snaps as the one on ones benefit the defense. He had a fantastic day.

[*Synric*]

(01-31-2024, 11:04 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Despite shutting it down though nicked up he’s well thought of at OU for his time here. He wouldn’t be the first player to choose his future over teammates. Granted OU was out of the Big 12 Championship. Again he’s far from a finished product. Word is he whiffed bad on only one rep but my understanding the scouts don’t worry about 1 or 2 snaps as the one on ones benefit the defense. He had a fantastic day.

He ducked his head and lost to a spin move inside but everyone loses reps. Adisa Isaac showed some great bend getting around the arc of Taliese Fuaga which showed Fuaga's lack of length a little. Patrick Paul was woof in pass pro hands were everywhere early late high low wide the only place they weren't was on time and inside.

Day 2 and 3 is where we see guys settle down and DL get to plan moves for guys. Christian Jones OT Texas had a great first day but I expect thr edge guys to come back with more power to speed counters for Jones today.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-30-2024, 03:38 PM)kevin Wrote: Of course it is better to go to The Super Bowl than The Senior Bowl.  It is also better to go to The AFC Championship Game.  However the Bengals have always had less scouts than most NFL teams.  Bengals have expected Head Coaches and Coaches to do their own scouting.  That is hard to do when you are at The Super Bowl or just finishing AFC Championship Game.  

So this year Bengals Head Coach and Coaches will be in full force at The Senior Bowl.  It there is anybody worth drafting at The Senior Bowl, the Bengals coaches will know.

So to some this is touch football Pro Bowl week.  To Bengals coaches it is Senior Bowl week.

I'm glad they were able to go this year. I hate not knowing who is available to draft. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-30-2024, 05:09 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Is the Senoir Bowl a French version of the Senior Bowl?

Thanks G. Now i'll be walking around at work all day saying. "It's the seenwahhh bowl!" out loud to everyone. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-30-2024, 10:00 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I support this strategy.

And lose PA's phone number.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-30-2024, 11:12 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I don't see much correlation in more scouts mean greater success, Cleveland has had a large scouting department, not equal much. Bengals have always put their coaches more in involved than most teams, a PB legacy

Bull shit. They got Vontae Mack and Ray Jennings in rd 1 and were still able to keep their #1s for the next 3 years. 

[TecmoBengals]

(01-31-2024, 12:05 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: And lose PA's phone number.

Another solid move.

[*Synric*]

Bengals coaches are getting first-hand experience with prospects at this year's college all-star games.

Charles Burks will be coaching the National Team's DBs at the @seniorbowl, and Brad Kragthorpe will be the East QB Coach at the @ShrineBowl pic.twitter.com/h9etpLo2bh

— Cincinnati Bengals (@Bengals) January 31, 2024

[*ochocincos*]

A favorite of mine to keep an eye on - Ben Sinnott, TE/FB Kansas St.

He's the only TE in the draft class (at least outside of Bowers) to register a PFF score of 70+ in receiving, pass blocking, and run blocking.

Here's a link on Sinnott from Day 1 observations from Senior Bowl
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/2024-senior-bowl-notes-wide-receivers-stand-out-on-day-1/ar-BB1hvULj

Quote:At 6'4" and 254 pounds, Ben Sinnott has ideal size for a tight end. He also flashed the ability to run seam routes and catch the ball in traffic during team periods for the American side.

Sinnott started two years for Kansas State, catching 80 passes for 1,123 yards and 10 touchdowns while playing a variety of roles for the Wildcats. A willing blocker with good hands, Sinnott doesn’t have the athleticism to wow scouts, but he’s solid in a litany of other aspects.

Watching Sinnott, it’s clear that he has good wiggle in his routes with explosiveness at the top. If drafted into an offense that features a pass-catching tight end, there’s reason to believe Sinnott could start out playing in 12 personnel (one running back, two tight ends) because of his varied skill set before becoming a permanent starter.

In a tight-end draft known for Georgia’s Brock Bowers, Sinnott projects as a top five project at the position in this class with the potential to be a late Day 2 pick, but the likelihood of going on Day 3.

[*Synric*]

(01-31-2024, 03:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: A favorite of mine to keep an eye on - Ben Sinnott, TE/FB Kansas St.

He's the only TE in the draft class (at least outside of Bowers) to register a PFF score of 70+ in receiving, pass blocking, and run blocking.

Here's a link on Sinnott from Day 1 observations from Senior Bowl
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/2024-senior-bowl-notes-wide-receivers-stand-out-on-day-1/ar-BB1hvULj

Sinnott had some drops day 1 but a few nice blocks during the team period. He just had a nice catch in 1 on 1s a few minutes ago and had another punched out by Georgia's Tykee Smith.

[Sled21]

(01-31-2024, 10:33 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: A little work with hand placement, and that man will be a very good RT.

Nice, but is he going to be there?

[SunsetBengal]

(02-01-2024, 11:00 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Nice, but is he going to be there?

As uncertain as he looks when lining up at LT?  I would think that most teams that are looking for a T in the top half of the 1st round are going to want someone who looks and feels at home on the Left side.

[kalibengal]

(01-30-2024, 04:08 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Embarrassing that in 2024 the Bengals still only have 4 scouts to cover both Pro Scouting and College Scouting.

and it shows....they rely too much on Sr Bowl, meanwhile other teams are hitting homeruns with late picks and FAs
Does anyone have the scouting dept size  through out NFL for comparison? Im guessing most have at least 6 to 8

[Nepa]

(02-01-2024, 11:57 AM)kalibengal Wrote: and it shows....they rely too much on Sr Bowl, meanwhile other teams are hitting homeruns with late picks and FAs
Does anyone have the scouting dept size  through out NFL for comparison? Im guessing most have at least 6 to 8

Inspired by your question, I tried to do some digging into numbers. The best I came up with was an 2022 Athletic article by Dehner ("How the NFL's tinest scouting staff built the Bengals into the next big thing").  These are some quotes:  

"The league average for player personnel people is 21. The second-fewest listed on any team website is 15."

 "Cincinnati does have the smallest staff. Eight people are listed in the player personnel department but only six are fully entrenched scouts: Tobin, Radicevic, director of college scouting Mike Potts and scouts Andrew Johnson, Christian Sarkisian and Trey Brown."

"The Rams have 26 people in player personnel: scouts, regional scouts, pro scouts, national scouts, directors, assistant directors, scouting strategy directors, consultants, general manager, two special assistants to the general manager. That doesn’t even touch the cadre of operations analysts and managers."

"The Bengals defy convention on purpose. The group takes pride in the conscious choice for extra work. They see the benefit in the versatility of spreading across departments instead of extreme specialization. They think, contrary to popular belief, that the family dynamic and collaborative philosophy of involving coaches more — following a blueprint set by Paul Brown — creates a significant advantage."

https://theathletic.com/3113500/2022/02/08/how-the-nfls-tiniest-scouting-staff-built-the-bengals-into-the-next-big-thing/

[Nepa]

Continuing what was posted above, a 2019 blog noted these two points:

"Cincinnati has always been known as a team that counts its pennies and checks them twice. This is why the team doesn’t employ a traditional scouting department, per se. Instead, the team tends to lean on its coaches to make the major personnel decisions, and though the team is slowly expanding its scouting presence, evaluators have to mold their opinions to coaches, instead of vice versa."

"The Browns are unusual in that they have more scouts and scouting assistants than anyone in the NF (17 as of our count last summer)."

https://succeedinfootball.com/2019/06/04/a-look-at-modern-nfl-scouting-department-models/

[BFritz21]

(01-30-2024, 11:12 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I don't see much correlation in more scouts mean greater success, Cleveland has had a large scouting department, not equal much. Bengals have always put their coaches more in involved than most teams, a PB legacy

It's not as much of an issue anymore because of the internet, but scouts used to be needed to find the prospects from the smaller schools, as well as guys on teams that weren't as well known.

There are 128 D1 football schools, and that's not even considering other football leagues or foreign players.

Of all those, you want to watch as many plays from a prospect, as well as find out about their character, practice habits, worth ethic, and a bunch of other things. I realize that you don't need to do that with every player, but you want to do it with as many players as possible.

I think part of it was just Mike Brown being cheap and partly because he thought he knew better than any scout could tell him.

(01-30-2024, 11:35 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Not to mention, we have every video on prospects as all the other clubs...

But a lot of those are just highlights. You want scouts to stop in practices, interview players, and to see more plays, rather than what the coaches or players want you to see.

Even if you think you could watch all the plays on tape, that's still a lot of plays on a lot of teams to watch. 

(01-31-2024, 03:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: A favorite of mine to keep an eye on - Ben Sinnott, TE/FB Kansas St.

He's the only TE in the draft class (at least outside of Bowers) to register a PFF score of 70+ in receiving, pass blocking, and run blocking.

Here's a link on Sinnott from Day 1 observations from Senior Bowl
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/2024-senior-bowl-notes-wide-receivers-stand-out-on-day-1/ar-BB1hvULj

I do like Sinnott and I'm starting to favor him a lot because I'm bringing myself to the reality that Bowers won't be there.

Your link took me to an article about the size of scouting departments (just fyi and probably just linked the wrong tab since that's what we're discussing).

I like Sinnot up the seam and on out/corner routes where DBs will be covering Chase deep.

He was also a walk-on and only seems to be improving.

(02-01-2024, 11:57 AM)kalibengal Wrote: and it shows....they rely too much on Sr Bowl, meanwhile other teams are hitting homeruns with late picks and FAs
Does anyone have the scouting dept size  through out NFL for comparison? Im guessing most have at least 6 to 8

That's exactly what I've been saying for crippled years and I mention it above.

That's where the draft is won because, yes, it's important to hit on high round picks and free agents, but you need the players that the regular person wouldn't even consider that can come in and get the job done.

You need to sit down with guys and figure out their work ethic and how they'll improve the team.

(02-01-2024, 01:51 PM)Nepa Wrote: Continuing what was posted above, a 2019 blog noted these two points:

"Cincinnati has always been known as a team that counts its pennies and checks them twice. This is why the team doesn’t employ a traditional scouting department, per se. Instead, the team tends to lean on its coaches to make the major personnel decisions, and though the team is slowly expanding its scouting presence, evaluators have to mold their opinions to coaches, instead of vice versa."

"The Browns are unusual in that they have more scouts and scouting assistants than anyone in the NF (17 as of our count last summer)."

https://succeedinfootball.com/2019/06/04/a-look-at-modern-nfl-scouting-department-models/

It bugs me that now they're saying that we're smart because we've had some success drafting when our history is full of bad picks and busts.

ESPN ranks us 27th in drafting, and that's just since 2012!

Even if you don't draft players that end up as big names, you need a department that identifies role players from big and small schools.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-01-2024, 03:21 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Your link took me to an article about the size of scouting departments (just fyi and probably just linked the wrong tab since that's what we're discussing).

I clicked on the link to make sure I put the right one up, and it definitely is going to the right place for me.
The linked article should be starting with...
"The 2024 Senior Bowl began Tuesday at the University of South Alabama in Mobile, kicking off the unofficial start of NFL draft season.
For some, it was a day of promise and potential being showcased in front of 32 teams and a hoard of media members. For others, it was a teaching moment, with prospects hoping to do better in the week's second practice Wednesday."
It then goes into talking about some WRs, DBs, and Ben Sinnott.