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to give us an idea of what the top DT market will look like
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(03-08-2024, 08:23 PM)pally Wrote: to give us an idea of what the top DT market will look like
I think just under $25 for Madubuike is as expected. Wilkins will be in that ballpark. Williams probably $13-$18. Jones will be $30.
I aim high here. Reader + elite DT.
With whatever is left: vet S (cut Scott to save $2 mil if I need more cap) + Hurst & Townsend.
The draft can get me OT (1st), WR3/CB4 (Day 2), I can circle back on day 3 for 6 of the following 7: TE, IOL, RB, CB, S, LB, NT.
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Madubuike inked.
Signed:
-----------Tier 1----------
6. Madubuike, DR, Balt, 4 yrs/&98 mil
8. Johnson, CB, Chi, 4 yrs/76 mil
-------Tier 2------
13. Evans, WR, TB, 2 yrs/$52 mil
------Tier 3-------
-----Tier 4-------
27. Dotson, G, Rams, 3 yrs/$48 mil
33. Schultz, TE, Hou, 3 yr/36 mil
Tagged:
-------Tier 1----------
3. Burns, DE, Panthers, $24 mil.
4. Allen, DE, Jags, $24 mil
7. Higgins, WR, Bengals, $21.8 mil.
9. Winfield, S, TB, $17.123 mil
10. Sneed, CB, KC, $19.8 mil.
------------Tier 2------
14. Pittman, WR, Colts, $21.8 mil
----------Tier 3----
---------Tier 4--------
25. Dugger, S, NE, $13.8 Transition
Available atm:
1. Jones, DT, KC
2. Cousins, QB, Min
5. Wilkins, DT, Miami
------Tier 2----------
11. Greenard, Edge, Hou
12. Hunter, DE, Minny
15. McKinney, S, NYG
16. Queen, LB, Ravens
17. Ridley, WR, Jax
18. L. Williams, DT, Sea
---------Tier 3-------
19. Mayfield, QB, TB
20. Brown, WR, Arizona
21. Barkley, RB, NYG, No Tag
22. Young, DE, 49ers
23. Huff, DE, Jets
-------Tier 4---------
24. Hunt, G, Miami
26. Jackson, G, Det
28. Onwenu, G/T, NE
29. Luvu, LB, Car
30. Jacobs, RB, LV
31. J. Williams, OT, Bengals
32. Brooks, LB, Sea
--------Tier 5--------
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There's a couple good Centers available, and the Bills just cut their C too. Sign one and kick Karras back over to LG. Then we'd only have a rookie RT to worry about.
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(03-09-2024, 12:19 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: There's a couple good Centers available, and the Bills just cut their C too. Sign one and kick Karras back over to LG. Then we'd only have a rookie RT to worry about.
I think IOL is a sneaky need as well. And usually it is not expensive as other positions. Volson is our best run blocker, however. And we need to run it better and more, not less & worse. He did get better in pass pro after that terrible start.
For that reason, I think we probably spend $$ elsewhere. DTx2 & S for sure. With what is left, I still might go P, Chido, RT before IOL. Though a discounted Risner or C. Williams (injury) might make some sense.
I think a mid-round pick is certainly possible.
The thing we need to do in FA is start giving out more guaranteed money after the first year. It would allow us to lower present cap hits.
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(03-09-2024, 11:56 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I think IOL is a sneaky need as well. And usually it is not expensive as other positions. Volson is our best run blocker, however. And we need to run it better and more, not less & worse. He did get better in pass pro after that terrible start.
For that reason, I think we probably spend $$ elsewhere. DTx2 & S for sure. With what is left, I still might go P, Chido, RT before IOL. Though a discounted Risner or C. Williams (injury) might make some sense.
I think a mid-round pick is certainly possible.
The thing we need to do in FA is start giving out more guaranteed money after the first year. It would allow us to lower present cap hits.
Is Karras at LG really an upgrade over Volson? It's been a couple of years for Karras at LG.
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Ford has returned on a 1 year deal.
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(03-09-2024, 12:41 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Is Karras at LG really an upgrade over Volson? It's been a couple of years for Karras at LG.
I'm an upgrade over Volson.
WTS, I feel the LG starting gig is his as long as Pollack is Oline coach.
1
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(03-09-2024, 01:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm an upgrade over Volson.
WTS, I feel the LG starting gig is his as long as Pollack is Oline coach.
Likewise, the whole glass eater concept.
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The Bengals have re-signed OT/G Cody Ford to a one year deal. Terms not available yet..
https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/bengals_g_cody_ford_signs_1_year_contract/s1_17049_40081362
Ford was our #3 OT and arguable #3 OG last season. I will adjust the OT, IOL, and Roster sections accordingly. Cannot do cap space until terms are out.
I'd expect a vet min deal or slighly above with no dead cap if cut. But I fully expect Ford to make the 53, we'd need to sign 3 OTs to bump him.
I do think this decreases the likelihood we sign a mid-level OT AND draft one at #18. But does not rule it out completely. Ford at OT4/OG3-4 is more appropriate for his level than swing tackle, IMHO.
3. Offensive Tackle
A. Signed
Player; Cap; Dead Cap; FA Year; PFF L3, 2023 Snaps
1. O. Brown: $16,354,000; $23,325,000; '27; 66.1/75.8/75.4; 1,059 O + 71 ST.
------------Starter Line-----------
2. Ford: $????; '25; 53.9/41.2/46.7; 79 O + 72 ST
3. Carman: $2,370,438; $694,536; '25; 56.6/60.7/56.3, 12 O + 1 ST
4. D. Smith (OT/G): $1,179,136; $124,836; '25; x/48.2/53.0.
----------Reserve Line---------
5. Cochran: $795,000; $0; '25; x/x/x, Zero.
6. Kirkland (OT/G): $795,000; $0; '25; x/x/x, Zero
----------Future's/PS Line--------
B. Unsigned
Player, FA Status, PFF L3, 2023 Snaps
1. J. Williams, UFA, 58.5/61.2/77.5; 1,088 O + 72 ST
------------Starter Line-------
-----------Reserve Line-------
C. Analysis: New
Brown is set to start at LT and the RT spot is open with Jonah hitting FA. Ford was our primary OT backup and played more OG snaps than Scarping, I believe. He is back in the fold now. Carman & Smith under contract. Cochran & Kirkland were both injured early on last year and spent the year on IR. Kirkland signed a Future's contract this year.
I do not think there is any way in the world we pay $10-$15 mil for Jonah, long term. He is decent, and pretty durable, but gets overwhelmed too often vs top level DEs. We are picking high this year due to Burrow's injury, and it is a historically good OT class. I think 8 1st rounders is realistic. Further, 4 of those 8, and 4 of the top 7, are RTs: Fuaga, Latham, Guyton, and Mims.
Further, it is not a stellar year for OTs in FA, and two of the best are 30+ (Smith & Brown). And Onwenu likely expensive. I could see a FA OT signing as a bridge type (Eluemunor) if it can be done for cheap-ish. Especially if the target at #18 is likely to be raw (Guyton, Mims). And it would allow us possibly go in a different direction at #18 (Bowers, Murphy, Newton, CB). I'd love Smith but he'll never sign here if he isn't the guaranteed starter...and he has not played RT in a long while.
As for the reserves, we have brought back Ford for (presumably) cheap. Carman & Smith are signed. If we get a bridge RT in FA and draft one, then somone will have to go. Heck, even 1 new OT likely means someone is gone, thiugh Ford/Carman both have experience at G as wel.
I'd prefer to bring back Carman over Smith. The former two have at least played meaningful snaps for us. Though Carman sermingly beeing LT only hurts him as a reserve.
I don't think cap should impact the decision on the reserves. Cutting Carman does not save us much $$, given the nearly $700k in Dead Cap & having to play a replacement. Just take the best guys. Cochran & Kirkland both coming off injury, and the latter may be more of a G. But competing for the #4 OT (or G in Kirkland's case) is likely best case scenario for either.
I think we take a RT at #18. Right now I'd say 40/60 on an Elumunor type bridge, though if it isn't a significant upgrade from Ford, what is the point?
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Ford is back.
https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/bengals_g_cody_ford_signs_1_year_contract/s1_17049_40081362
IDK how much that impacts the IOL thinking. Volson & Cappa played virtually every snap, so the pecking order was hard to know. I *think* Ford may have gotten more G snaps than Scharping.
7. Interior OL
A. Signed
Player, Cap, Dead Cap, FA Yr, PFF L3, 2023 Snaps
1. Cappa: $9,250,000; $4,500,000; '26; 64.9/67.6/74.2, 1,067 O
2. Karras: $7,400,000; $1,000,000; '25; 67.4/62.6/72.8
3. Volson: $1,149,221; $328,442; '26; 58.3/51.6/x, 1,088 O + 72 ST
----------------Starter Line-------------
4. T. Hill: $1,103,088; $48,088; '25; x/57.0/53.3, Zero.
5. Ford (OT/G): UFA; 53.9/41.2/46.7, 79 O + 72 ST
6. Carman (OT/G): $2,370,438; $694,536; 56.6/60.7/56.3, 12 O + 1 ST
7. D. Smith (OT/G): $1,179,136; '25; X/48.2/53.0, Zero
----------------Reserve Line-----------
7. Gilliam (OG/C); $795,000; $0; '25; x/x/x, Zero
8. Kirkland (OT/G); $795,000; $0; '25; x/x/x Zero.
--------------PS/Future's Line--------
B. Unsigned
Player, FA Status, PFF L3, 2023 Snaps
----------Starter Line-----------
1. Scharping (G/C): UFA; 78.1/60.5/59.9, 13 O + 72 ST
C. Analysis
All three starters are signed. It is Karras' last year and Cappa & Volson have two more. Karras is a better pass blocker than run, but is above average overall. Volson the opposite but not as good overall. Cappa more even. If there is an upgrade, it needs to be Volson's spot.
T. Hill is the only guy from the 53 last year who is signed. Though Ford & Carman are back and both have experience at Guard. Smith has played so little, but he has theoretical G abilities. The club lists them all as tackles.
Gilliam and Kirkland are both signed to Future's deals and were PS/Inj guys last year. Gillian at G/C and Kirkland at G/OT.
Our starting OL was extremely durable last year. Ford got the most snaps, mostly at OT, but might have still gotten more G snaps than Scharping's 12. Hill & Smith did not play a snap anywhere, and Carman got 1 offensive snap.
Not gonna lie, I'd love an upgrade or some new blood, but given the other issues at OT, DT, WR3, TE, CB, S, and even P, I think anything other than a Day 3 pick or vet min type signings (Scharping) is unlikely.
The only way I see a big FA signing would be if we strike out at higher profile positions (DT, OT, TE, S) and have excess cash and there is a stud LG/C out there for reasonable. Risner? C. Williams injury discount?
The only way I could see spending early draft capital would be if we sign enough FAs at other spots that IOL becomes the BPA at a position of need. If we landed Onwenu/Smith, then maybe OT is off the board at #18 & JPJ makes sense? Or we sign Onwenu, draft an OT & move Mike to LG. But IOL ahead of OT, WR, DT, CB, TE, or S early in the draft would really require a crazy good FA period.
IDK if a guy like Eluemunor would get me off OT at #18. Might make me OK with risking a trade down for more picks. Coupled with a good FA class, maybe I spend early on IOL in that case.
Ford being back does not impact me much. Though it could perhaps mean we go with 9 instead of 10 this year if the reserves are more versatile.
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Regarding Ford, I do kind of like the move. He is a known guy. He can play OT/G. It means our OT depth will be, at worst, equal to what it was last year.
IDK if we keep 5 guys who are primarily OTs again. Carman has almost $700k in dead cap, and I'd rate him ahead if Smith, but saving $1.7 mil might be tempting.
FWIW, aside from filling the spits vacated buly our starter level FAs (Higgins, Reader, Jonah, Chido, Irv), I am pretty comfortable bringing back most of the min type vets.
I'd rank D. Sample, Hudson, and ADG highest, but they could be a smidge more expensive. Ford, Scharping, Irwin, Tupou, T. Williams, Bailey, & Bachie I'd expect back to camp at least if the players are interested.
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(03-09-2024, 01:51 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I think we take a RT at #18. Right now I'd say 40/60 on an Elumunor type bridge, though if it isn't a significant upgrade from Ford, what is the point?
Eluemunor received a 68.5 PFF grade last year and 75.3 the year before. Cody Ford has received a 53.9 and 41.2 grade the last two years. While Eluemunor is not a great tackle he is certainly better than Ford. I'm not sure how Ford is on the team. He has looked pretty bad every time he is out on the field.
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The Broncos traded WR Jerry Jeudy to the Browns. They took a 5th and 6th for him
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If Im the Bengals, I spend the 15 million on Onwenu. He is a proven starter that should should do a good job protecting the right side. This also takes the need to draft an unproven RT off the board and opens up the draft for other positions. Eluemunor would be a good backup plan should the Bengals not be able to get Onwenu but Eluemunor would be more of a bridge than a long term solution like Onwenu. If the decision is 15 million for Onwenu and 7.5 million for Eluemunor, we should get Onwenu.
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(03-09-2024, 12:55 PM)jj22 Wrote: Ford has returned on a 1 year deal.
I'm good with that.
(03-09-2024, 02:36 PM)pally Wrote: The Broncos traded WR Jerry Jeudy to the Browns. They took a 5th and 6th for him
I'm not good with that. I've never been high on Jeudy, however he is talented enough that he can be an excellent compliment. On a team that has a legit run game, #1, and defense like Cleveland; he can do some damage to the opposition.
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(03-09-2024, 11:56 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I think IOL is a sneaky need as well. And usually it is not expensive as other positions. Volson is our best run blocker, however. And we need to run it better and more, not less & worse. He did get better in pass pro after that terrible start.
Holic listed the PFF grades heading into the last week. PFF isn't the end-all-be-all, but Volson had a 44.4 pass blocking grade last year which was the worst among the starters by over 12 points.
We need to run it better, but we also need to pass block better so the highest paid QB in the NFL doesn't keep getting broken coming back from surgery.
(03-09-2024, 12:41 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Is Karras at LG really an upgrade over Volson? It's been a couple of years for Karras at LG.
Karras is a solid C, and he was a better LG than C.
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(03-09-2024, 02:36 PM)pally Wrote: The Broncos traded WR Jerry Jeudy to the Browns. They took a 5th and 6th for him
I almost feel bad for Bronco fans..
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(03-09-2024, 01:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm an upgrade over Volson.
WTS, I feel the LG starting gig is his as long as Pollack is Oline coach.
You'd get killed 
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(03-09-2024, 01:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm an upgrade over Volson.
WTS, I feel the LG starting gig is his as long as Pollack is Oline coach.
Sometimes your Volson hate gets a little over the top Bfine lol
I agree he should be depth instead of a starter but he is at the very least quality depth. You wouldn't be an upgrade over Charmin.
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