Joe Mixon - Rumors He May Be Cut

[NUGDUKWE]

(02-20-2024, 04:22 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Joe Mixon 2023 among 44 qualified RBs:
10th in yards before contact per rush
43rd in yards after contact per rush

Yes I am a Mixon fan as I am a fan of most Bengals players. But I just can't help but think there is something more to this stat. I know Mixon had some runs where he had a chance to get thru one guy for bigger gains and failed. But more often than not plays just didn't seem to be there. On some of his worst games the blocking upon review was laughably bad. Not saying he was top 10 or that we shouldn't be trying to be more dynamic in the run game. But the stat of top 10 before contact to 43rd after contact just doesn't meet up with the eye test for me. But again maybe there is more to this stat that I'm not seeing. It just gives the impression that we were a top 10 run blocking team and that clearly can not be the case.

[NUGDUKWE]

(02-20-2024, 04:22 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Joe Mixon 2023 among 44 qualified RBs:
10th in yards before contact per rush
43rd in yards after contact per rush

Okay so quickly looking at it I may see my problem. I see those numbers as the team doing its job and Mixon not doing his ( which I do not agree with ). But the stat may actually point to the opposite of Mixon doing his job and the blocking not doing theirs. Yards before contact can point to Mixons vision and cuts and while the yards after contact point to Mixon not making single guys miss (which we have all seen at times ) but when multiple defenders get thru ( which we have all seen multiple times) a player will not break those tackles at a high rate thus dropping him on the list. Again I know Mixon has his faults but the disparity of that stat has to have an explanation and I think that may be it.

[*jason*]

(02-20-2024, 08:29 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Okay so quickly looking at it I may see my problem. I see those numbers as the team doing its job and Mixon not doing his ( which I do not agree with ). But the stat may actually point to the opposite of Mixon doing his job and the blocking not doing theirs. Yards before contact can point to Mixons vision and cuts and while the yards after contact point to Mixon not making single guys miss (which we have all seen at times ) but when multiple defenders get thru ( which we have all seen multiple times) a player will not break those tackles at a high rate thus dropping him on the list. Again I know Mixon has his faults but the disparity of that stat has to have an explanation and I think that may be it.

I think it's as simple as saying Joe Mixon gets what's blocked for him and not much else. Breece Hall plays behind a bad O line too. He had the second most yards from scrimmage this past year.

[NUGDUKWE]

(02-20-2024, 10:27 PM)jason Wrote: I think it's as simple as saying Joe Mixon gets what's blocked for him and not much else. Breece Hall plays behind a bad O line too. He had the second most yards from scrimmage this past year.

Mixon doesn't have legit home run speed like a Breece Hall but Hall has also dealt with some severe injuries already. But all backs are dependent on what the line gives them but without homerun speed it will be more so. I still think Mixon is the least of our problems in the run game. We need to be more dynamic in the run game but that's all aspects not just replacing Mixon and calling it a day. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-20-2024, 08:29 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: But the stat may actually point to the opposite of Mixon doing his job and the blocking not doing theirs.

Out of 44 qualified RBs in 2023 Mixon was 37th in rushing attempts per broken tackle. 

In 2022 out of 41 qualified RBs he was 35th in yards after contact per rush and 29th in rushing attempts per broken tackle.

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-21-2024, 12:02 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Mixon doesn't have legit home run speed like a Breece Hall but Hall has also dealt with some severe injuries already. But all backs are dependent on what the line gives them but without homerun speed it will be more so. I still think Mixon is the least of our problems in the run game. We need to be more dynamic in the run game but that's all aspects not just replacing Mixon and calling it a day. 

Vehemently Disagree!!

And the stats prove it beyond any doubt. As has been said dozens of times Mixon gets what's blocked - AND THAT"S IT He very,  very, rarely creates any extra yards on his own. As you said, he doesn't have that breakaway speed. He's not elusive in any way, I question his football vision??

In short he's not a very good running back. He's stinks at pass pro most of the time. His two good attributes are ball security and he's a decent receiver.

We need an upgrade at RB #1

[*Synric*]

If Joe could pass protect I wouldn't mind him staying in Cincy but at this point in his career he's shown you just can't trust him in that area.

[*jason*]

(02-21-2024, 12:02 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Mixon doesn't have legit home run speed like a Breece Hall but Hall has also dealt with some severe injuries already. But all backs are dependent on what the line gives them but without homerun speed it will be more so. I still think Mixon is the least of our problems in the run game. We need to be more dynamic in the run game but that's all aspects not just replacing Mixon and calling it a day. 

Yeah but we're saying the same thing. If we're gonna have a shaky O line, we're gonna need somebody with burst, who can make somebody miss too.

[NUGDUKWE]

(02-21-2024, 11:02 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Vehemently Disagree!!

And the stats prove it beyond any doubt. As has been said dozens of times Mixon gets what's blocked - AND THAT"S IT He very,  very, rarely creates any extra yards on his own. As you said, he doesn't have that breakaway speed. He's not elusive in any way, I question his football vision??

In short he's not a very good running back. He's stinks at pass pro most of the time. His two good attributes are ball security and he's a decent receiver.

We need an upgrade at RB #1

Well he's 10th in yards before contact and this stat points to a player having above average speed and vision. So take that for what it's worth. I'm not saying don't get better. But you better be trying to improve every facet of the run game.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-20-2024, 01:56 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yup

A couple guys have posted the stats, I don't remember them exactly?? But he's amongst the highest in yards before contact, and among the lowest in yards after contact !!

I know that this is a Joe Mixon thread, but something just jumped out at me. With yards before contact being an OL stat, and our primary ball carrier being in the top 10 of yards before contact, why is our OL graded and regarded so poorly?

[KillerGoose]

(02-21-2024, 02:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I know that this is a Joe Mixon thread, but something just jumped out at me. With yards before contact being an OL stat, and our primary ball carrier being in the top 10 of yards before contact, why is our OL graded and regarded so poorly?

It depends on the outlet. ESPN ranks the Bengals ninth in run blocking in their run block win rate stat, if you place any value in it. PFF, conversely, ranks Cincinnati 22nd in both run block and pass block grade. 

Personally, I think Cincinnati's run blocking was better than their pass pro. I think the Bengals pass protection is largely why public opinion is so low on the offensive line. QBs are the face of teams and Burrow gets hit a lot.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-21-2024, 02:20 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: It depends on the outlet. ESPN ranks the Bengals ninth in run blocking in their run block win rate stat, if you place any value in it. PFF, conversely, ranks Cincinnati 22nd in both run block and pass block grade. 

Personally, I think Cincinnati's run blocking was better than their pass pro. I think the Bengals pass protection is largely why public opinion is so low on the offensive line. QBs are the face of teams and Burrow gets hit a lot.

How much of that is the OL, and how much of that is on Joe for not getting rid of the ball? There must be some sort of measurable way to define that metric.

[TecmoBengals]

(02-21-2024, 02:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How much of that is the OL, and how much of that is on Joe for not getting rid of the ball? There must be some sort of measurable way to define that metric.

Add Pollack to the formula as well.

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-21-2024, 02:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I know that this is a Joe Mixon thread, but something just jumped out at me. With yards before contact being an OL stat, and our primary ball carrier being in the top 10 of yards before contact, why is our OL graded and regarded so poorly?

I've wondered the same thing myself in past threads and posts by others about how poor Mixon is in yards before/after contact?? It makes one wonder is our Oline really that bad? Or is it Mixon making it look worse than it is? 

I believe it's the latter.

I forget what game it was? I believe it was just after JB went out? But Mixon was hitting the holes with authority, head down taking what was given. He didn't set any rushing records or anything but it was one of his better rushing games in some time.

It's when he tries his L. Bell impression that he stinks!! (which is more often than not) he doesn't have the quickness, juking ability, vision to run with that style and it hurts his stats, makes the Oline look bad, and more importantly hurts the team in winning.

[KillerGoose]

(02-21-2024, 02:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How much of that is the OL, and how much of that is on Joe for not getting rid of the ball? There must be some sort of measurable way to define that metric.

It's definitely some of this, some of that. It's not all the offensive line and Pollack. The Bengals like to send five into routes and leave the linemen on islands. You take a guy like Orlando Brown, who isn't a great athlete, and he can get exposed in those situations. The Bengals lack of pass blocking running backs is an issue as well. 

I think if Cincinnati grabbed a better pass blocking back and limited their use of five route plays, pass protection would increase sharply. I don't think that the individual players on the line are as bad as many think they are. 

[SunsetBengal]

(02-21-2024, 02:38 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: It's definitely some of this, some of that. It's not all the offensive line and Pollack. The Bengals like to send five into routes and leave the linemen on islands. You take a guy like Orlando Brown, who isn't a great athlete, and he can get exposed in those situations. The Bengals lack of pass blocking running backs is an issue as well. 

I think if Cincinnati grabbed a better pass blocking back and limited their use of five route plays, pass protection would increase sharply. I don't think that the individual players on the line are as bad as many think they are. 

I've expressed that opinion a time or two as well, and am usually refuted with "But PFF says...".

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-21-2024, 03:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I've expressed that opinion a time or two as well, and am usually refuted with "But PFF says...".

I've also posted sack numbers from Joe's time at LSU.....and it's gone largely ignored. The man himself has said he'll take a sack on third down unless he's in field goal range to try to keep the play alive. This oline is far from the Hogs of the 80s Skins teams, but it's a little bit better than the numbers show.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-20-2024, 03:42 PM)Wyche Wrote: I'm all for using that money elsewhere, but at the same time, Chris Evans is not an answer. You'd have to replace him and Mixon. I like Brown, and Williams is decent enough. Evans was a wasted draft pick.

Easy enough, there are lots of options in FA and the Draft to replace both for cheaper and we could get much better at the position while doing it.

[pulses]

(02-20-2024, 03:42 PM)Wyche Wrote: I'm all for using that money elsewhere, but at the same time, Chris Evans is not an answer. You'd have to replace him and Mixon. I like Brown, and Williams is decent enough. Evans was a wasted draft pick.

Williams is replaceable with this kid here...good in pass pro too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_lpVYif3QE&t=315s

[NUGDUKWE]

(02-21-2024, 02:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I know that this is a Joe Mixon thread, but something just jumped out at me. With yards before contact being an OL stat, and our primary ball carrier being in the top 10 of yards before contact, why is our OL graded and regarded so poorly?

I'm not so sure the yards before contact is an oline stat. I know it reads like that and that's what I assumed it pointed to. But when you look up what factors into the yards before contact stat. It says that a good yards before contact points to a player having above average speed and vision. Not saying Mixon isn't some of the problem in our run game. But the idea that the team would be top 10 giving Mixon a chance and he would be almost dead last in what he does with that is just obviously not true.