Bengals Defense - 4-3 or Nickel Base?

[Hammerstripes]

(02-21-2024, 09:16 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: lol… as if we only run in nickel when the other offense has 3 WR.  Ask yourself this, do you want Mike Hilton taking on a FB or 2nd TE?  

This really boils down to, could we look to improve the Lb spot.  We really need a leader on defense. Who would you say the leader of the defense is going into 2024?  

As for Roquan, their defense was mediocre in 2022 before trading for him, and has been at or near the best defense since his arrival.

The question was if we should have a 4-3 or nickels base.  Damn near every NFL offense has a base 3 WR set.  So, the question is still whether you want a LB covering a WR.

Their defense has just as much to do with the guys the drafted along with some others drastically improving.  Give me Kyle Hamilton, MAdebueke and Travis Jones and see if that has more of an impact than signing a MLB.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-21-2024, 09:16 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: lol… as if we only run in nickel when the other offense has 3 WR.  Ask yourself this, do you want Mike Hilton taking on a FB or 2nd TE?  

This really boils down to, could we look to improve the Lb spot.  We really need a leader on defense. Who would you say the leader of the defense is going into 2024?  

As for Roquan, their defense was mediocre in 2022 before trading for him, and has been at or near the best defense since his arrival.

I would say Logan Wilson being healthy can definitely be the leader on Defense and the growth of the youth at Safety and Corner will help.

Just like Hammerstripes said, Roquan has Humphreys and the best young Safety in the NFL in Kyle Hamilton to communicate with...

[Bengalbug]

(02-22-2024, 12:51 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I would say Logan Wilson being healthy can definitely be the leader on Defense and the growth of the youth at Safety and Corner will help.

Just like Hammerstripes said, Roquan has Humphreys and the best young Safety in the NFL in Kyle Hamilton to communicate with...

And yet they were an average defense before his arrival.

[Housh]

You basically have to run nickel in today’s NFL but i also wonder about this.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-21-2024, 09:21 PM)J24 Wrote: So it was communication when Logan got beat to the edge by Mason Rudolph or was it lack of speed? Was it communication when Hill tackled Turner on an 80 yard touchdown pass or a terrible angle ? Was it miss communication when Dax missed two of the easiest Interceptions in the 2nd Browns game or poor ball skills?

Let's put it this way; our division has 4 excellent TEs getting a LB or big safety in free agency or via the draft thats capable of  covering TEs in man to man situations would be a nice addition to the roster.

Plays like the ones that you are referring to are likely the result of playing "uptight" do to insecurity about assignments and responsibilities.  When a unit has good communication and everyone is certain role their in the task at hand, they play fast and loose, and make great individual plays as a result.

[kevin]

(02-20-2024, 12:52 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Curious, i recall seeing where the bengals, like most teams, run a nickel base most often.  Knowing the division we play in, does this make sense?  I like Logan Wilson and I think Pratt is an ok 2 down player.  But neither are that second level enforcer.  Knowing the impact Roquan Smith had on the Ravens, do the bengals need to look at a free agent sideline to sideline MLB?  Would this help our run defense?  I’m not throwing shade at Wilson or Pratt, but would we better served bringing in someone that is an enforcer?  We really don’t have that guy beyond the DL (Hendrickson).  

Lovonta David (34) and Wagner (33) are both older vets, but maybe they would want to join a team.  I personally believe the impact a player like that could bring would be well worth the investment.   Obviously there are younger options in Free Agency, but I’m not sold that committing long years and dollars into the Lb position is the best play for this team, this year.

Coach Taylor says use at least 5 DB's 80 % of the game.  So don't look for change in this.  A big DB almost the size of a LB would help as kind of a Monster Man Wild Card in the deck, that can cover a WR or TE, but come up and stuff run plays also.  Like a David Fulcher type. We had one in Bates Motel, but he got over priced in a salary cap where Bengals trying to keep Burrow, Chase and other players. I'm pretty sure they can come up with a safety that can flat out tackle running plays to be a LB/ DB tweener in a 4-2-5 defense.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Our base D is 425 nickel. Just oook at the snap counts.

However, base does not mean every snap. We do run some 5 lineman heavy stuff vs Pitt, Cle, Balt, and Tenn. Usually pulling the 3rd CB for a DT.

Some folks call this a 3-4, because the ends stand up rather being in a 3 point stance. But since it is usually Hendrickson and Hubbard wide with 3 DTs in the middle, I really don't think you can call that 4 LBs. Really, we don't play anyone I'd consider an OLB. Wilson, Pratt, Bailey, and Bachie are all MLBs. Trey, Hubbard, Murphy, and C. Sample are very much DLs. ADG & Ossai come the closest.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-22-2024, 01:26 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: And yet they were an average defense before his arrival.

Naturally, just like Dax Hill, Kyle Hamilton was just a rookie and was learning. Takes a bit with rookies but Hamilton had a lot more snaps to 
improve much faster than Dax, plus Hamilton was more polished and was playing in his natural position. And the Ravens were a bit better 
than average before getting Roquan. I don't know what you are arguing now Bengalbug, communication is huge on Defense.

[J24]

(02-22-2024, 06:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Naturally, just like Dax Hill, Kyle Hamilton was just a rookie and was learning. Takes a bit with rookies but Hamilton had a lot more snaps to 
improve much faster than Dax, plus Hamilton was more polished and was playing in his natural position. And the Ravens were a bit better 
than average before getting Roquan. I don't know what you are arguing now Bengalbug, communication is huge on Defense.

Speaking of Hamilton ; the Ravens use him more in the slot than anywhere else on the field. Which is what Lou should do with Hill. Although if we do that then the FO will have to address Safety at some point in free agency!

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-22-2024, 07:33 PM)J24 Wrote: Speaking of Hamilton ; the Ravens use him more in the slot than anywhere else on the field. Which is what Lou should do with Hill. Although if we do that then the FO will have to address Safety at some point in free agency!

I actually agree with this J24. Hilton is on the last year of his deal as well isn't he? Wouldn't be a bad idea to bring in a true rangy FS and 
move Dax Hill to where he is more comfortable if he isn't comfortable where he is at. This actually might be the move besides adding to 
the DT position that could really get this Defense back to being respectable again. Love Hilton as a blitzer but we need to get Dax playing 
up his draft position and moving Dax to Slot at times could be the answer.

[Bengalbug]

(02-22-2024, 06:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Naturally, just like Dax Hill, Kyle Hamilton was just a rookie and was learning. Takes a bit with rookies but Hamilton had a lot more snaps to 
improve much faster than Dax, plus Hamilton was more polished and was playing in his natural position. And the Ravens were a bit better 
than average before getting Roquan. I don't know what you are arguing now Bengalbug, communication is huge on Defense.

Communication is key, for sure. But do you really think our defense let up all those plays due to communication? We have one singular great player on defense, it’s not enough. Going back to the Original post, would a guy like Bobby Wagner help? Would you swap Pratt for Bobby Wagner ? Whatever it was last year, something was off.

I’ll ask it differently. Who is the leader of the defense? Hendrickson could be that guy, but it’s just not. Doesn’t seem like his personality, but I could be way off.

Btw, not trying to argue, it’s just a discussion.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-22-2024, 10:15 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Communication is key, for sure.  But do you really think our defense let up all those plays due to communication? We have one singular great player on defense, it’s not enough.  Going back to the Original post, would a guy like Bobby Wagner help?  Would you swap Pratt for Bobby Wagner ?  Whatever it was last year, something was off.

I’ll ask it differently.  Who is the leader of the defense? Hendrickson could be that guy, but it’s just not.  Doesn’t seem like his personality, but I could be way off.

Btw, not trying to argue, it’s just a discussion.

Maybe, but I doubt it.  As to Wagner specifically, yeah he can still play, even though he's on the tail end of an outstanding career.  He's been a West Coast guy for his entire career and likely wants to remain out there.  I can't see him coming to the mid West and feeling at home at all.  If he chooses to play this year, it will likely be because he loves the Seahawks.

[casear2727]

(02-22-2024, 10:15 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Communication is key, for sure.  But do you really think our defense let up all those plays due to communication? We have one singular great player on defense, it’s not enough.  Going back to the Original post, would a guy like Bobby Wagner help?  Would you swap Pratt for Bobby Wagner ?  Whatever it was last year, something was off.

I’ll ask it differently.  Who is the leader of the defense? Hendrickson could be that guy, but it’s just not.  Doesn’t seem like his personality, but I could be way off.

Btw, not trying to argue, it’s just a discussion.

Wagner will be 34 years old.  We just extended Wilson and Pratt, I doubt they are even considering a starting level LB this offseason.  

I will say that when Pratt was a 2 down LB in 2022 his coverage grades were excellent, last year as a 3 down LB he dropped in every category.

[*Synric*]

Jordan Battle did really well as the big nickle (WLB) against Arizona, Baltimore, and San Francisco so I'd rather the Bengals go out and get a veteran safety to replace Nick Scott instead of a linebacker.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-22-2024, 10:15 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Communication is key, for sure.  But do you really think our defense let up all those plays due to communication? We have one singular great player on defense, it’s not enough.  Going back to the Original post, would a guy like Bobby Wagner help?  Would you swap Pratt for Bobby Wagner ?  Whatever it was last year, something was off.

I’ll ask it differently.  Who is the leader of the defense? Hendrickson could be that guy, but it’s just not.  Doesn’t seem like his personality, but I could be way off.

Btw, not trying to argue, it’s just a discussion.

I would swap last year's Pratt for last year's Wagner, but that isn't the question. It is this year's Pratt with this year's Wagner...

Move Pratt back to a 2 down LB and keep Logan Wilson as our 3 down LB'er WHO IS THE LEADER OF OUR DEFENSE.

Bring back ADG and Bailey while adding a cover LB in the Draft and we should be fine while the communication grows with our youth.

(02-23-2024, 11:12 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Wagner will be 34 years old.  We just extended Wilson and Pratt, I doubt they are even considering a starting level LB this offseason.  

I will say that when Pratt was a 2 down LB in 2022 his coverage grades were excellent, last year as a 3 down LB he dropped in every category.

Yes sir, we are young at LB, stay that way and work on improving around them while moving Pratt back to being a 2 down LB is the way.

(02-23-2024, 01:30 PM)Synric Wrote: Jordan Battle did really well as the big nickle (WLB) against Arizona, Baltimore, and San Francisco so I'd rather the Bengals go out and get a veteran safety to replace Nick Scott instead of a linebacker.

This as well. Replace Nick Scott with a good veteran Safety so we can use Dax's versatility.

[Bengalbug]

(02-23-2024, 11:12 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Wagner will be 34 years old.  We just extended Wilson and Pratt, I doubt they are even considering a starting level LB this offseason.  

I will say that when Pratt was a 2 down LB in 2022 his coverage grades were excellent, last year as a 3 down LB he dropped in every category.

Who is the bengals leader of the 2024 defense? What is the identity? I honestly think the talent is there for this defense to be the best yet, due to athleticism, youth, RAS. That said, there just isn’t “that guy” that is the field general on the defensive side of the ball (at least not that I can see). I guess someone could grow into it, but it really comes down to your LB or S position to get everyone lined up on every play. Maybe battle takes the leap?

[Bengalbug]

(02-23-2024, 04:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I would swap last year's Pratt for last year's Wagner, but that isn't the question. It is this year's Pratt with this year's Wagner...

Move Pratt back to a 2 down LB and keep Logan Wilson as our 3 down LB'er WHO IS THE LEADER OF OUR DEFENSE.

Bring back ADG and Bailey while adding a cover LB in the Draft and we should be fine while the communication grows with our youth.


Yes sir, we are young at LB, stay that way and work on improving around them while moving Pratt back to being a 2 down LB is the way.


This as well. Replace Nick Scott with a good veteran Safety so we can use Dax's versatility.

I love Logan Wilson. He is opportunistic, and does a lot of things really well. But IMo, it has to be someone else. We have Logan, while our division has Roquon, Watt, Garrett.

Maybe it can be Hendrickson, but he is a silent assassin. Kind of like Logan.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-23-2024, 04:31 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: I love Logan Wilson.  He is opportunistic, and does a lot of things really well.  But IMo, it has to be someone else.  We have Logan, while our division has Roquon, Watt, Garrett.  

Maybe it can be Hendrickson, but he is a silent assassin.  Kind of like Logan.

I wouldn't call Trey silent lol

Dude talks more shit than about any End in the NFL...

[SunsetBengal]

(02-23-2024, 04:26 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Who is the bengals leader of the 2024 defense?  What is the identity?  I honestly think the talent is there for this defense to be the best yet, due to athleticism, youth, RAS.  That said, there just isn’t “that guy” that is the field general on the defensive side of the ball (at least not that I can see).  I guess someone could grow into it, but it really comes down to your LB or S position to get everyone lined up on every play.  Maybe battle takes the leap?

CTB, without a doubt.  He saw how things went awry last season, publicly noted the lack of communication in the secondary, and vowed that the members of the secondary would be spending a lot of time together this offseason.

[casear2727]

(02-23-2024, 04:26 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Who is the bengals leader of the 2024 defense?  What is the identity?  I honestly think the talent is there for this defense to be the best yet, due to athleticism, youth, RAS.  That said, there just isn’t “that guy” that is the field general on the defensive side of the ball (at least not that I can see).  I guess someone could grow into it, but it really comes down to your LB or S position to get everyone lined up on every play.  Maybe battle takes the leap?

This is actually good question, we would hope it would be Logan Wilson.  I would guess Hubbard plays a role.  We know DJ was a big leader.  But Logan and Dax would be the 2 I would hope become the vocal leaders this year.  Of course they both need to play well.