Officially Signed: Sheldon Rankins

[casear2727]

(03-18-2024, 10:15 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Reader signed for 13.62 million per year with only 9 million guaranteed over the two year contract.  The Lions didnt even guarantee a full season in that contract.  They guaranteed 2/3 of one season.  There is no reason the Bengals couldnt have done that.  Now they are in need of a run stopping NT in the hardest division in football with very few options.  Royal screw up by the front office handling that one.

The initial lowball offer to DJ was almost disrespectful. Im not sure he even cared what the last offer was. 

[casear2727]

(03-18-2024, 10:23 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I was disappointed they didn’t retain Reader. He was worth some overpay. They could have done like Detroit hedge on the guarantee. His locker room character  and immovable presence was worth it. But I’m not surprised. I’ve said on several threads a couple of weeks ago I’d traded Tee and Browning and moved up in both the first two rounds.

No one is more disappointed in losing DJ than me.

[Soonerpeace]

(03-18-2024, 10:39 PM)casear2727 Wrote: No one is more disappointed in losing DJ than me.

For sure. I’m a little disappointed in some things I’ve heard. But I’ll know some more after the first of the month.

[Joelist]

Okay how about actual proof of a lowball offer or disrespect. Or are we doing the usual here - something happens we don't like so we make the worst possible inferences about the team? The fact is WE DO NOT KNOW what transpired.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-19-2024, 01:07 AM)Joelist Wrote: Okay how about actual proof of a lowball offer or disrespect. Or are we doing the usual here - something happens we don't like so we make the worst possible inferences about the team? The fact is WE DO NOT KNOW what transpired.

DJ basically said as much in his Lions presser.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Just watched Rankins interview, like Weezy said, the dude definitely doesn't lack confidence and happy he is on our team.

He says he has been a run stopper as well with the Jets when they were one of the best run stopping Defenses in the league.

So he is not just a pass rusher which is awesome. I wanted Rankins before we got him, but I love the signing much more after listening
to him talk. He likes to get into QB's heads and he talks a lot of shit, him being reunited with Trey will be some fun times. Between BJ
Hill and Sheldon Rankins we have some characters at DT now lol

[Sled21]

(03-18-2024, 10:39 PM)casear2727 Wrote: No one is more disappointed in losing DJ than me.

I am very disappointed he did not stay; he was one of my favorites. That said, now that he's gone, many on the board are pretending the last couple of months about how "DJ had TWO quad injuries and would not be able to play until mid-season so we should not re-sign him" never happened.....

[Sled21]

(03-19-2024, 01:45 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: DJ basically said as much in his Lions presser.

Did he mention how the Bengals made him one of it not the highest paid NT with his last contract?

[samhain]

(03-19-2024, 02:10 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Just watched Rankins interview, like Weezy said, the dude definitely doesn't lack confidence and happy he is on our team.

He says he has been a run stopper as well with the Jets when they were one of the best run stopping Defenses in the league.

So he is not just a pass rusher which is awesome. I wanted Rankins before we got him, but I love the signing much more after listening
to him talk. He likes to get into QB's heads and he talks a lot of shit, him being reunited with Trey will be some fun times. Between BJ
Hill and Sheldon Rankins we have some characters at DT now lol

IIRC, when he came out of Louisville as a prospect, some if not all draft eval services listed him as a NT.  

Oddly, some list Byron Murphy as a NT as well.  There are a few that even believe that it's his best position.

Mass and weight help, but it's not everything when it comes to the position.

[QueenCity]

(03-22-2024, 09:36 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I am very disappointed he did not stay; he was one of my favorites. That said, now that he's gone, many on the board are pretending the last couple of months about how "DJ had TWO quad injuries and would not be able to play until mid-season so we should not re-sign him" never happened.....

Right I think the injury risk for me was just asking for trouble. 

I wish we had a replacement available but perhaps the draft helps in that regard.

[samhain]

(03-22-2024, 09:36 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I am very disappointed he did not stay; he was one of my favorites. That said, now that he's gone, many on the board are pretending the last couple of months about how "DJ had TWO quad injuries and would not be able to play until mid-season so we should not re-sign him" never happened.....

Yeah, agree with your take.  

It's sucks right now, but nobody's going to be upset about the decision in the fall if he misses the first month.  Or he's not the same player he was here when he does play.  Or he suffers yet another major injury that causes him to miss even more time.  He missed time in 3/4 seasons he was here. 

They stuck to their guns philosophically.  He's 30 and gets hurt a lot.  Great player, exemplary human by most accounts, but still a major risk.  If we signed a player from another team with the same risk profile, people would ***** about it.  

At some point, the team has to cultivate talent.  There's not always a ready made replacement in the wings.  Sometimes the next guy isn't quite the player as the one he replaced was.  

To me it's a wash.  We lost Reader, but even if he were still a Bengal, there was no guarantee that he'd be the same guy we're used to.  We have no idea when he'd even get back to the field or if he'd stay when he does.  

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(03-18-2024, 04:24 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Rankins doesnt play Reader's position but he will take Reader's starting spot on the defensive line next to BJ Hill.  They will in all likelihood have Hill take over the Reader role since he is better suited to do so than Rankins.

Close, but still not right IMHO.

Rankins is gonna take Hill's spot, and Hill is gonna take Reader's. BJ is bigger and closest to a NT type. Rankins is 3T all the way. Like Nate said. 

FWIW, this piece seems to suggest the original plan was Rankins and Reader. 

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2024/03/20/bengals-want-dj-reader-sheldon-rankins-interest-arik-armstead-free-agency/

I  terms of PT. 

The Bengals played roughly 1,100 defensive snaps last year (Dax Hill played 99.45% of D snaps with 1,091). 

If one assumes 2 DT per snap (say 3 DL with 1 DT snaps balance out heavy 5 DL with 3 DT snaps), that is 2,200 DT snaps available. It is probably a bit higher because I think we play heavier more often. And put DEs at DT on some passing downs. 

Here are the snap counts for us, last 3 years,,at DT.

2023: Hill 778, Reader 535, Carter 500, Tupou 287, Tufele 96, 

2022: Hill 816, Reader 397, Carter 396, Tupou 272, Tufele 138, Davis 38, Shelvin 24.

2021: Larry O 724, Reader 590, Hill 502, Tupou 410, Daniels 64, Shelvin 49. 

Rankins snap counts last 3: 597, 558, 641. 

Hill usually plays the most because he is more of a hybrid. Rankins & Reader less because the are more defined/limited in their roles: 3T & NT. 

I am firmly in the camp that thinks Rankins was not brought in to replace Reader, but be Larry O with Hill & Reader rotating with him. 

There are more than enough snaps to go around, or were, between the 3 of them. With the remainder to be filled by NT2 (Tupou), DT3 (Carter) and DEs moving inside in passing downs. In fact, BJ has probably been playing too much because of our lack of depth, ditto Reader on passing downs. 

But since we cheaped out on Reader, Hill has to start with Rankins while we scramble to find a replacement for DJ. Rankins is a poor run defender. Hill is OK but nowhere near Reader. The safety FA help should improve things some, regardless of personnell. 

But we still need DT/NT help, badly. I'd expect at least one of each and maybe 2 NT types signed or drafted.

Carter and/or Tufele need upgraded and Reader & Tupou need replaced.

For me, we still need: 

2 NT 
1 WR 
1 CB 
1 IOL 
1 LB 

No hole, but definitely could use upgrades: 
1 OT 
1 DT 
1 P 
1 TE
1 RB

I think QB, DE, S, PK, & LS are set. 

Now, some solutions may already be signed or on the roster. 

Maybe we feel Chuck Sizzle is ready for WR3 and like Shedrick Jackson for WR6 this year. 

I could see thinking TE is set even though I don't personally think we have a TE1 on the roster. There are 3 signed + Wilcox is not a disaster. 

We really liked Maxwell before he got hurt last year. Maybe they think he helps. 


My high round draft ammo would go: RT, NT, WR, & CB. But a stud DT (Murphy) or TE (Bowers) could change my mind. Maybe IOL if a stud drops. 

As for NT/DT, my rotations with what we have:

NT/DT: Hill, (Tupou), Tufele
3T/DT: Rankins, Hill, Carter, Tufele 

That needs some help.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-22-2024, 09:43 AM)samhain Wrote: IIRC, when he came out of Louisville as a prospect, some if not all draft eval services listed him as a NT.  

Oddly, some list Byron Murphy as a NT as well.  There are a few that even believe that it's his best position.

Mass and weight help, but it's not everything when it comes to the position.

That is interesting, but honestly it is understandable if a player is comfortable playing NT, that is his groove.

There are NT's that are only around 300 pounds, it happens. Billings and the other DT for the Bears are both only around 300 and
they were the best run stopping Defense in the league last year.

[Soonerpeace]

(03-18-2024, 09:12 PM)casear2727 Wrote: We will see how early Sweat goes. I wont be sad if we do not get him, I think his snap count could be very limited. Im also not as big on Guyton, especially if we do not sign a quality bridge guy. I would be shocked if they took Guyton over Latham or Mims.

I’d be shocked more than you

[TKUHL]

(04-23-2024, 12:26 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I’d be shocked more than you

I hope we don’t take Mims or a WR in the first.

[Bengalbug]

(03-22-2024, 01:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is interesting, but honestly it is understandable if a player is comfortable playing NT, that is his groove.

There are NT's that are only around 300 pounds, it happens. Billings and the other DT for the Bears are both only around 300 and
they were the best run stopping Defense in the league last year.

Yep, you’re right. Don’t need to be 330+ to be great. I just googled best nose tackles and found an article from mid last season that listed 10. The guys below are the ones under 320lbs. So 60% of the top 10 NT are under 320.

(2) Jarren Reed 6’3” 306
(3) Grady Jarrett 6’1” 291 (I also found 305)
(6) Harrison Philips 6’3” 307
(7)Montravius Adams 6’4” 306
(8) DaQuan Jones. 6’4” 317
(9) Andrew billings 6’1” 311

I’m sure that you could generate a similar, yet different, list using a different grading system. But you’re point stands on you don’t have to be 330+ to be a good Nt.

https://www.nfl.com/news/top-10-nose-tackles-entering-week-9-of-2023-nfl-season-dexter-lawrence-on-a-leve

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-23-2024, 09:53 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Yep, you’re right.  Don’t need to be 330+ to be great.  I just googled best nose tackles and found an article from mid last season that listed 10.  The guys below are the ones under 320lbs.   So 60% of the top 10 NT are under 320.  

(2) Jarren Reed 6’3” 306
(3) Grady Jarrett 6’1” 291 (I also found 305)
(6) Harrison Philips 6’3” 307
(7)Montravius Adams 6’4” 306
(8) DaQuan Jones. 6’4” 317
(9) Andrew billings 6’1” 311

I’m sure that you could generate a similar, yet different, list using a different grading system.  But you’re point stands on you don’t have to be 330+ to be a good Nt.

https://www.nfl.com/news/top-10-nose-tackles-entering-week-9-of-2023-nfl-season-dexter-lawrence-on-a-leve

Thanks for looking that up Bengalbug. That is cool, I didn't know there were that many NT's under 320 which backs up what we were talking
about even more. Nose Tackle is more the position a certain player is comfortable playing rather than size. Strength is huge when playing NT
and these players are all very strong just like Byron Murphy. We all remember how much Billings could squat, it was insane.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-22-2024, 09:43 AM)samhain Wrote: IIRC, when he came out of Louisville as a prospect, some if not all draft eval services listed him as a NT.  

Oddly, some list Byron Murphy as a NT as well.  There are a few that even believe that it's his best position.

Mass and weight help, but it's not everything when it comes to the position.

Yep, leverage, technique, getting low, and good angles into the gap can make up for the lack of mass. Speed, quickness, and agility can also contribute to the mix.

[NUGDUKWE]

(03-19-2024, 01:07 AM)Joelist Wrote: Okay how about actual proof of a lowball offer or disrespect. Or are we doing the usual here - something happens we don't like so we make the worst possible inferences about the team? The fact is WE DO NOT KNOW what transpired.

I know DJ said with Kay Adam's that the Bengals didn't approach him at all until free agency started. It made him feel like the interest wasn't there and that he should see what else was available. 

[jj22]

Some of this is the feeling we play in the AFCN and need a Sam Adams.

I've caught a couple of Texans games and watched Rankins specifically. He is OK. I wouldn't risk giving him more then his typical number of snaps. I would even argue Larry O was and is the better player. Larry flashed in the run game as well.