Could Bengals draft best center or best OG with #1 pick?

[007BengalsFan]

I'm a little leery of using a 1st round draft pick on a center with alligator arms.

[OSUfan]

(03-28-2024, 02:16 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The Bengals have generally devalued interior OL in the draft in round 1. I believe Zeitler was the last good #1 pick on the interior and latest bust was Price.

The Ravens and the Steelers need IOL. The Ravens need 2 guard and Steelers need a center. Our center is a FA in 2025. Should they target a future replacement for Karras? The number 1 ranked center/Guard is Jackson Powers- Johnson from Oregon. He is mocked to the Steelers at pick 20 in a few mock drafts.

He is clearly the #1 center in the2024 draft according to the experts. I keep hearing a lot about the AFCN running games, if Steelers can't get their center of the future, it could hurt them and help us at a minimum in 2025, or he could compete with Volson at LG as well.

I am assuming the versatile OL Troy Fautanu is gone, but if he available, he may a no brainer as he can play all of the OL positions including RT. 

I know we have a lot of options, but unless we extend Karras, we could have a huge hole in the middle protecting our franchise QB in 2025.

If they are going that route then the no brainer selection is Graham Barton.

[WhoDeyK]

(03-30-2024, 07:31 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I'm a little leery of using a 1st round draft pick on a center with alligator arms.

I've seen several people says this and I don't get it. JPJ's arm measurement was 32 1/4" at the combine. 
The best center in the game right now, Creed Humphrey also measured 32 1/4" 
One of the best ever who just retired Jason Kelce measured 32 1/2"
Tyler Linderbaum who's having a fine career measured 31 1/8"
Corey Linsley who was a sought after free agent just a couple years back measured 32"
David Andrews whos been solid measured 32 1/8" 
Another one of the better centers recently who retired, Ryan Jensen, measured 32 1/2"
and Ted Kerras measured in at 32 1/8"

Honestly, I'd say JPJ has the perfect size arms for his position. 

[Whatever]

(03-31-2024, 07:23 PM)WhoDeyK Wrote: I've seen several people says this and I don't get it. JPJ's arm measurement was 32 1/4" at the combine. 
The best center in the game right now, Creed Humphrey also measured 32 1/4" 
One of the best ever who just retired Jason Kelce measured 32 1/2"
Tyler Linderbaum who's having a fine career measured 31 1/8"
Corey Linsley who was a sought after free agent just a couple years back measured 32"
David Andrews whos been solid measured 32 1/8" 
Another one of the better centers recently who retired, Ryan Jensen, measured 32 1/2"
and Ted Kerras measured in at 32 1/8"

Honestly, I'd say JPJ has the perfect size arms for his position. 

32-1/2" is considered the threshold.  You will obviously find guys with shorter arms who can do the job, but they're exceptions, not rules.

A lot of folks bring up Humphrey, but KC was plagued with low shotgun snaps in the AFCCG and SB, which is a problem common to short armed C's, especially when dealing with tough assignments and having to rush the snap.  In fact, KC had a chance to win the SB in regulation, but Humphrey put the snap into the dirt and luckily Mahomes managed to recover it and throw it out the back of the end zone to preserve enough time for the FG to tie it.  

[WhoDeyK]

(03-31-2024, 07:58 PM)Whatever Wrote: 32-1/2" is considered the threshold.  You will obviously find guys with shorter arms who can do the job, but they're exceptions, not rules.

A lot of folks bring up Humphrey, but KC was plagued with low shotgun snaps in the AFCCG and SB, which is a problem common to short armed C's, especially when dealing with tough assignments and having to rush the snap.  In fact, KC had a chance to win the SB in regulation, but Humphrey put the snap into the dirt and luckily Mahomes managed to recover it and throw it out the back of the end zone to preserve enough time for the FG to tie it.  

It might be considered a goal or target length but under 32 1/2" is not the exception. Going into last year 17 of the starting centers in the NFL had under 32 1/2" arms compared to 11 who had over. 

I know some don't agree with PFF but if you go off of their center rankings, 4 of the top 10 centers had under, 3 had exactly 32 1/2 arms and 3 had over (and this is with listing Kerras at 32 1/2" as he has conflicting info.) Conversely 6 of the bottom 10 centers had over 32 1/2 arms vs 4 under. The number of starting (and good centers) with under 32 1/2" arms is only going to increase after this draft with 3 of the top prospects, JPJ, Zach Frazier and Sedrick Van Pran all having under 32 1/2" arms. 

Also one of the best Bengal centers in more recent Bengals history, Rich Braham had under 32 1/2" arms. Nothing about JPJs arm length would prevent me from selecting him in Round 1. 

[TecmoBengals]

Rapien suggests that Jackson Powers-Johnson isn't going as high as we're reading about online. Of course, it might be a GM smokescreen tactic feeding the media such information.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/nfl-teams-low-jackson-powers-johnson

[Whatever]

(03-31-2024, 09:35 PM)WhoDeyK Wrote: It might be considered a goal or target length but under 32 1/2" is not the exception. Going into last year 17 of the starting centers in the NFL had under 32 1/2" arms compared to 11 who had over. 

I know some don't agree with PFF but if you go off of their center rankings, 4 of the top 10 centers had under, 3 had exactly 32 1/2 arms and 3 had over (and this is with listing Kerras at 32 1/2" as he has conflicting info.) Conversely 6 of the bottom 10 centers had over 32 1/2 arms vs 4 under. The number of starting (and good centers) with under 32 1/2" arms is only going to increase after this draft with 3 of the top prospects, JPJ, Zach Frazier and Sedrick Van Pran all having under 32 1/2" arms. 

Also one of the best Bengal centers in more recent Bengals history, Rich Braham had under 32 1/2" arms. Nothing about JPJs arm length would prevent me from selecting him in Round 1. 

And how many of those C's were 1st round picks?

Exactly.

[TecmoBengals]

Wasn't Tyler Linderbaum supposedly a short armed player who thus resulted in having draft day concerns about him? His career his shaping up nicely.

[WhoDeyK]

(04-01-2024, 09:36 AM)Whatever Wrote: And how many of those C's were 1st round picks?

Exactly.

There are currently only 4 centers in the NFL that were first round picks. 2 with under 32 1/2" arms and 2 with over, so again under 32 1/2" arms isn't the exception.

[Whatever]

(04-01-2024, 10:47 AM)WhoDeyK Wrote: There are currently only 4 centers in the NFL that were first round picks. 2 with under 32 1/2" arms and 2 with over, so again under 32 1/2" arms isn't the exception.

And those two C's are Linderbaum, who's been good, but not great(PFF grades in the 70's his first two years), and Billy Price, a complete bust who was a mega reach based on need and the fact Ragnow was gone.  

[*bfine32*]

(04-01-2024, 10:47 AM)WhoDeyK Wrote: There are currently only 4 centers in the NFL that were first round picks. 2 with under 32 1/2" arms and 2 with over, so again under 32 1/2" arms isn't the exception.

You're doing great at supporting your stance. I've mentioned a factor about short-armed Centers is that it puts the rest of the Oline at a disadvantage. Short-armed centers have to lineup close to the ball to snap it and it makes the rest of the line lineup that much closer. 

Personally, I can't see how less than an inch can make a difference (insert joke), but folks seem to believe in it

[XenoMorph]

(03-28-2024, 02:16 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The Bengals have generally devalued interior OL in the draft in round 1. I believe Zeitler was the last good #1 pick on the interior and latest bust was Price.

The Ravens and the Steelers need IOL. The Ravens need 2 guard and Steelers need a center. Our center is a FA in 2025. Should they target a future replacement for Karras? The number 1 ranked center/Guard is Jackson Powers- Johnson from Oregon. He is mocked to the Steelers at pick 20 in a few mock drafts.

He is clearly the #1 center in the2024 draft according to the experts. I keep hearing a lot about the AFCN running games, if Steelers can't get their center of the future, it could hurt them and help us at a minimum in 2025, or he could compete with Volson at LG as well.

I am assuming the versatile OL Troy Fautanu is gone, but if he available, he may a no brainer as he can play all of the OL positions including RT. 

I know we have a lot of options, but unless we extend Karras, we could have a huge hole in the middle protecting our franchise QB in 2025.

I Like it solidify the Center of the OL for the foreseeable future

[*ochocincos*]

(03-31-2024, 09:35 PM)WhoDeyK Wrote: It might be considered a goal or target length but under 32 1/2" is not the exception. Going into last year 17 of the starting centers in the NFL had under 32 1/2" arms compared to 11 who had over. 

I know some don't agree with PFF but if you go off of their center rankings, 4 of the top 10 centers had under, 3 had exactly 32 1/2 arms and 3 had over (and this is with listing Kerras at 32 1/2" as he has conflicting info.) Conversely 6 of the bottom 10 centers had over 32 1/2 arms vs 4 under. The number of starting (and good centers) with under 32 1/2" arms is only going to increase after this draft with 3 of the top prospects, JPJ, Zach Frazier and Sedrick Van Pran all having under 32 1/2" arms. 

Also one of the best Bengal centers in more recent Bengals history, Rich Braham had under 32 1/2" arms. Nothing about JPJs arm length would prevent me from selecting him in Round 1. 

Price had 32.0" arm length, but he also did not have the athleticism and hands to compensate for lack of length.
You're right, under 32.5" arm length isn't a death sentence, but a guy NEEDS to have some other elite traits to compensate.

JPJ looks to have that athleticism that is needed, and he has longer arms than Price anyway. He could be a (very) good center.

WTS, I don't personally think IOL is high on their board this draft, and the only way I see them going IOL in Rd 1 is if he's head and shoulders above the other guys as BPA. They'll almost assuredly take OT, DT, WR, CB, or Bowers in Rd 1.

[kalibengal]

(03-28-2024, 05:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Would love for us to Draft Powers-Johnson or Graham Barton. I just don't think either will be available at 49 so we would have
to get one of them in a trade down or trade up or just take Powers-Johnson at 18. Would be fine with it by the way especially
since the stealers might target him at 20. Would love to take the guy they want he he

Not a sexy pick at 18 but I would be ok with it as it will add more talent to trenches and help shore it up in future. Had we already addressed our HUGE NT void I would be all in.
Plus I hate when we pass on someone and Pitt or Balt scoops them up and they become Pro Bowlers. 
I have been reading lately that JPJ stock is dropping?? 

[SunsetBengal]

(03-28-2024, 05:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Would love for us to Draft Powers-Johnson or Graham Barton. I just don't think either will be available at 49 so we would have
to get one of them in a trade down or trade up or just take Powers-Johnson at 18. Would be fine with it by the way especially
since the stealers might target him at 20. Would love to take the guy they want he he

Therein lies the problem.  Don't really want to reach for one of them at #18, and #49 is too far away.  This is where trading back a few spots and picking up an additional 2nd round pick would come in handy.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-28-2024, 02:16 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The Bengals have generally devalued interior OL in the draft in round 1. I believe Zeitler was the last good #1 pick on the interior and latest bust was Price.

The Ravens and the Steelers need IOL. The Ravens need 2 guard and Steelers need a center. Our center is a FA in 2025. Should they target a future replacement for Karras? The number 1 ranked center/Guard is Jackson Powers- Johnson from Oregon. He is mocked to the Steelers at pick 20 in a few mock drafts.

He is clearly the #1 center in the2024 draft according to the experts. I keep hearing a lot about the AFCN running games, if Steelers can't get their center of the future, it could hurt them and help us at a minimum in 2025, or he could compete with Volson at LG as well.

I am assuming the versatile OL Troy Fautanu is gone, but if he available, he may a no brainer as he can play all of the OL positions including RT. 

I know we have a lot of options, but unless we extend Karras, we could have a huge hole in the middle protecting our franchise QB in 2025.

There will be so many good options for OL at 18. Heck, even still if they trade back into somewhere in the 20's.

Fuaga
Latham
JPJ
Barton
Fashanu
Guyton
Mims

At least two of these dudes will be available to pick from at 18.
About the only guy I think is a guaranteed OL to not make it to Bengals is Joe Alt.

Bengals also could have a shot at one of the elite IDLs - Newton and/or Murphy.

And the best part? Bengals don't HAVE to force any OL or DL into a starting role as a rookie.

About the only spot some are worried about in regard to 2023 starters is outside CB opposite of CTB. But the Bengals do have two young high draft picks in Turner and Hill that could be fighting for that spot. And they could always add a stopgap veteran to help as well.

They are in a pretty good spot going into the draft.

[Luvnit2]

(04-02-2024, 12:43 PM)ochocincos Wrote: There will be so many good options for OL at 18. Heck, even still if they trade back into somewhere in the 20's.

Fuaga
Latham
JPJ
Barton
Fashanu
Guyton
Mims

At least two of these dudes will be available to pick from at 18.
About the only guy I think is a guaranteed OL to not make it to Bengals is Joe Alt.

Bengals also could have a shot at one of the elite IDLs - Newton and/or Murphy.

And the best part? Bengals don't HAVE to force any OL or DL into a starting role as a rookie.

About the only spot some are worried about in regard to 2023 starters is outside CB opposite of CTB. But the Bengals do have two young high draft picks in Turner and Hill that could be fighting for that spot. And they could always add a stopgap veteran to help as well.

They are in a pretty good spot going into the draft.

Does the Bengal's FO think 2024 so an impact player immediately. Or do they think 2024 and beyond with a potential impact player?

Bengals should have many options on the OL as you mentioned which if we look to 2025, is a major weakness with guys currently signed as we lose a center and a RT.

We could also go a number of other ways if they feel BPA fell into their lap.

DT - Murphy or Newton
WR - Thomas 
CB - Mitchell
TE - Bowers

The good news is we can go with BPA is something strange happens.

I could be wrong, but my guess is all of the guys mentioned above other than Newton may be in our top 15. Kepp in mind, our board has no QB's on it. If 4 QB's go before us, we likely get a top 15 talent. 

[JoeyB2023]

(03-28-2024, 02:16 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The Bengals have generally devalued interior OL in the draft in round 1. I believe Zeitler was the last good #1 pick on the interior and latest bust was Price.

The Ravens and the Steelers need IOL. The Ravens need 2 guard and Steelers need a center. Our center is a FA in 2025. Should they target a future replacement for Karras? The number 1 ranked center/Guard is Jackson Powers- Johnson from Oregon. He is mocked to the Steelers at pick 20 in a few mock drafts.

He is clearly the #1 center in the2024 draft according to the experts. I keep hearing a lot about the AFCN running games, if Steelers can't get their center of the future, it could hurt them and help us at a minimum in 2025, or he could compete with Volson at LG as well.

I am assuming the versatile OL Troy Fautanu is gone, but if he available, he may a no brainer as he can play all of the OL positions including RT. 

I know we have a lot of options, but unless we extend Karras, we could have a huge hole in the middle protecting our franchise QB in 2025.

Ahhh the difference between could and should.