Joe Goodberry - Who will be the most available at 18 and 49

[depthchart]

(04-03-2024, 01:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You should add an OT forecasted in the mid-late 20's into your list like Guyton, I think.

If I had to pick out of your list though, I'd probably go Newton, personally.
This would be a situation I'd probably try to trade back into the mid-late 20's.

Would you give up the Bengals 4th round pick #115 to move up say 3 or 4 spots to pick #14 or #15

to get one of Latham -or Fuaga -or Fashanu ?

                                                            -OR- 

Would you trade 3rd round pick #97 to go up 5 or 6 spots to pick #12 or #13 to get one of Latham -or Fuaga -or Fashanu ?

[*Synric*]

(04-03-2024, 02:48 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I just get weary of someone who hasn't even started an entire season's worth of games in college.
It just feels too risky to me.
But I'm probably more risk-averse than most people, and I'm by no means anywhere close to a scout in regard to identifying talent or whether someone will be good or not.
Just my uneducated opinion.

I just try to rate the film with the little bit of outside information as I can. Jermaine Burton is a guy I'm higher on because he's a good player but he has the off-field that we're on the field issues. 


Speaking or Mims he's in Cincy for a top 30 visit today adding to the thread lol.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-03-2024, 03:11 PM)Synric Wrote: I just try to rate the film with the little bit of outside information as I can. Jermaine Burton is a guy I'm higher on because he's a good player but he has the off-field that we're on the field issues. 


Speaking or Mims he's in Cincy for a top 30 visit today adding to the thread lol.

I will admit too that I was skeptical of Josh Allen when he came out of Wyoming too.
Had it been me, I would have passed on him because of the work he needed.
I know he had the tools, but he was not good coming into the league, and it even took him a couple years to get things going.

I hope Mims blossoms into a great OT, especially if he were to be a Bengal.
I just don't trust this staff to groom an OT properly.

[Frank Booth]

read somewhere that he isnt a fit at guard. So if they draft Mims, Volson will remain the starting LG

[Bilbo Saggins]

Both Latu and Verse don't seem to get much respect with whatever process he's using.  That surprises me because both look like steals at 18.

Fuaga with a ~20% and Latham with a ~80% shot of being there at 18 is interesting.  Fuaga intrigues me but I'd wonder if his true home isn't at guard in the pros.  Latham would be my favorite realistic OT pick at 18.

Barton isn't given much respect here either, even making it to the 2nd round pick ~10% of the time.  Is he not the most promising C prospect in this draft?  Frazier in 2 would be great imo(he's at ~60% probability of being available in the 2nd).

Mims screams potential bust imho.  8 career starts?  We need Jim Mora to say "8 starts????"  Not enough evidence that he's a first rounder.

Turner, Mitchell, Fautanu, Thomas, Arnold...none really excite me.  Both of the DTs look to be a little overhyped.  Maybe I'm ignorant.

Bowers...ok he's interesting.  Wouldn't be my first choice.  They've never really needed a first round pedigree type of TE in this offense.  It'd be interesting to see just what they'd do with him and if they could maximize his skills.

It's an interesting thought exercise.  It'd be cool if he revisited his process after the draft and maybe even years later once we know who the hits and misses were to evaluate just how accurate it was.

[BoomerFan]

I think one reason that the Bengals might pass on Latham is Andre Smith. Smith was fine in the long run I guess but he had injury issues and was overdrafted where he was picked. And I remember Coach Lewis saying he felt like Alabama had misrepresented Andre. I would love Fautanu but I think it will be Latham and Mims and 18. I think we go with Mims and I am OK with that. Yeah there is a some risk due to a limited number of starts but it is either Mims or you trade the 3rd round comp to move up a couple of spots. I don't think it is worth losing that pick and there are other things I like about Mims: His school, his attitude, and who he played against.

With the right guy it doesn't matter how many starts they had in college. We aren't trying to win "most starts in college" we're trying to win a super bowl.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-04-2024, 03:21 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Both Latu and Verse don't seem to get much respect with whatever process he's using.  That surprises me because both look like steals at 18.

He is factoring need into this as well, FWIW.
Bengals are arguably completely full on DE.
Hendrickson, Hubbard, Murphy, Ossai, Sample.

[depthchart]

(04-04-2024, 03:21 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Both Latu and Verse don't seem to get much respect with whatever process he's using.  That surprises me because both look like steals at 18.

Fuaga with a ~20% and Latham with a ~80% shot of being there at 18 is interesting.  Fuaga intrigues me but I'd wonder if his true home isn't at guard in the pros.  Latham would be my favorite realistic OT pick at 18.

Barton isn't given much respect here either, even making it to the 2nd round pick ~10% of the time.  Is he not the most promising C prospect in this draft?  Frazier in 2 would be great imo(he's at ~60% probability of being available in the 2nd).

Mims screams potential bust imho.  8 career starts?  We need Jim Mora to say "8 starts????"  Not enough evidence that he's a first rounder.

Turner, Mitchell, Fautanu, Thomas, Arnold...none really excite me.  Both of the DTs look to be a little overhyped.  Maybe I'm ignorant.

Bowers...ok he's interesting.  Wouldn't be my first choice.  They've never really needed a first round pedigree type of TE in this offense.  It'd be interesting to see just what they'd do with him and if they could maximize his skills.

It's an interesting thought exercise.  It'd be cool if he revisited his process after the draft and maybe even years later once we know who the hits and misses were to evaluate just how accurate it was.

I like DE Laiatu Latu alot but many Posters on this Board would not even consider him an option because the Bengals 

just took DE Myles Murphy in round 1 last year and the Bengals have some depth there. 

(Similar to some not wanting a Corner in round 1 because the Bengals have Drafted them high recently)

I would still consider either if I think they could be Great though I would prefer a Great OT right now.



Laiatu Latu - 6 foot 4 & 3/4 inches tall  259 pounds 4.64 forty  13 sacks in 2023  (Neck issue appears to be clear but would want to confirm ok)

TJ Watt - 6 foot 4 and 1/2 inches tall 252 pounds 4.69 forty



*I am slow to rule out players like Latu & say a Top Corner in order to focus more on a current or near future Hole like Right Tackle.

** A Great RT right now would be best but I would not just ignore certain players that could be Great at other positions.

***I wonder what Posters responses would be if the Bengals did take a Round 1 Defensive End again in 2024 after taking Myles Murphy last year.

****Many would hate that...

[Luvnit2]

(04-03-2024, 01:43 PM)depthchart Wrote: This is where I start thinking about BPA.

Who is more likely NOT to Bust ?

Amarius Mims or Byron Murphy II or Brian Thomas JR or Quinyon Mitchell or Jer'Zhan Newton or Jackson Powers-Johnson or even DE Laiatu Latu

I agree.

I feel we are going to have a choice of a long-term starter with #18 pick. I mentioned in another thread, we may draft a WR. Can you imagine a WR room of:

Chase
Higgins
Thomas/Mitchell (1st round pick)
Yoshi
Jones
Irwin

TE weapon Gesicki

Chase can play anywhere including the slot. Opposing defenses would be kept guessing if Chase was in motion, who covers him and how do they double him? 

I like the ND starting RT in round 2 if we choose to skip an OT in round 1. I like Sweat as a possibly round 3 pick, but we may have to move up in round 3 to get him.

[depthchart]

(04-04-2024, 01:53 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree.

I feel we are going to have a choice of a long-term starter with #18 pick. I mentioned in another thread, we may draft a WR. Can you imagine a WR room of:

Chase
Higgins
Thomas/Mitchell (1st round pick)
Yoshi
Jones
Irwin

TE weapon Gesicki

Chase can play anywhere including the slot. Opposing defenses would be kept guessing if Chase was in motion, who covers him and how do they double him? 

I like the ND starting RT in round 2 if we choose to skip an OT in round 1. I like Sweat as a possibly round 3 pick, but we may have to move up in round 3 to get him.

Your idea definitely adds SPEED with a wide receiver that runs in the 4.3 range and Gesicki ran a 4.54 at his Combine.

While Defenses worry about Chase, Higgins is a threat or one of your New rookies could hurt them with speed.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-03-2024, 01:08 PM)depthchart Wrote: Mims might be a good option. He is MASSIVE.

6 foot 7 and 3/4 inches tall  340 pounds  36 & 1/8 inch long arms

The Steelers seem interested in Mims at pick #20. They met with him.

I am for Mims even more then lol

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(04-04-2024, 01:53 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree.

I feel we are going to have a choice of a long-term starter with #18 pick. I mentioned in another thread, we may draft a WR. Can you imagine a WR room of:

Chase
Higgins
Thomas/Mitchell (1st round pick)
Yoshi
Jones
Irwin

TE weapon Gesicki

Chase can play anywhere including the slot. Opposing defenses would be kept guessing if Chase was in motion, who covers him and how do they double him? 

I like the ND starting RT in round 2 if we choose to skip an OT in round 1. I like Sweat as a possibly round 3 pick, but we may have to move up in round 3 to get him.

Who is blocking?

Toys are nice, but games are won in the trenches.

I would love it if Joe could just run backwards until someone came open, ala Madden, but protection and d-line is more importatn, IMO, than adding another weapon, especially with Tee still on the team.

If the o-line was rock solid and the Bengals had a better d-line, I would be on board. At the moment, not so much.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Just watched the majority of the Goodberry vid, but got tired of listening. Saw the chart and he had Fautanu and Latham as the most
likely OT's for us at 18. I like Fautanu, he is solid and is less of a risk to me than Latham so would understand taking him. But it also
has Newton and Murphy available. In this scenario I would take Newton or Murphy and hope Blake Fisher OT ND is around at 49. Talk
about upgrading the trenches.

Then add our NT in the 3rd, plenty of good ones should be around and I am still not sold on Sweat going early 2nd at all.

[Bilbo Saggins]

(04-04-2024, 10:24 AM)ochocincos Wrote: He is factoring need into this as well, FWIW.
Bengals are arguably completely full on DE.
Hendrickson, Hubbard, Murphy, Ossai, Sample.

That's not how I see it. Hendrickson is the 2nd most vital player on the team behind Burrow. Hubbard is a solid, productive guy. Sample is more of a hybrid IDL/gap holder than terror off the edge. Murphy and Ossai are questionable as backups. Murphy was solo blocked by a TE at times.  Should Hendrickson have to miss any time the pass rush looks really shaky. 

[Frank Booth]

(04-04-2024, 09:13 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: That's not how I see it. Hendrickson is the 2nd most vital player on the team behind Burrow. Hubbard is a solid, productive guy. Sample is more of a hybrid IDL/gap holder than terror off the edge. Murphy and Ossai are questionable as backups. Murphy was solo blocked by a TE at times.  Should Hendrickson have to miss any time the pass rush looks really shaky. 

they need big help at both DE and DT.  you can never have enough edge rushers

[Luvnit2]

(04-04-2024, 06:55 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: Who is blocking?

Toys are nice, but games are won in the trenches.

I would love it if Joe could just run backwards until someone came open, ala Madden, but protection and d-line is more importatn, IMO, than adding another weapon, especially with Tee still on the team.

If the o-line was rock solid and the Bengals had a better d-line, I would be on board. At the moment, not so much.

I feel good about our OL. Brown, Volson, Karras, Capa and Brown is an upgrade IMHO. 

i also think there are many RT's available and will be available with our 2nd round pick. Add Sweat in round 3 (may have to move up into round 2 or 3) and I am happy camper.

Pick #1 Thomas - WR
#2 Fisher OT ND
#3 - Sweat

Add Gilmore or a vet corner like Nelson to help the CB room.

Then use rest of picks BPA and for depth. 

[*Synric*]

(04-03-2024, 03:14 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I will admit too that I was skeptical of Josh Allen when he came out of Wyoming too.
Had it been me, I would have passed on him because of the work he needed.
I know he had the tools, but he was not good coming into the league, and it even took him a couple years to get things going.

I hope Mims blossoms into a great OT, especially if he were to be a Bengal.
I just don't trust this staff to groom an OT properly.

What's fun about Amarius Mims is if you disregard the playing time and look at everything else he is the best overall fit at OT for the Bengals with his position (RT over Left), tape, measureables, where his upside is, pedigree (5 star national top 10 recruit), winning program... lol

[*ochocincos*]

(04-04-2024, 09:13 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: That's not how I see it. Hendrickson is the 2nd most vital player on the team behind Burrow. Hubbard is a solid, productive guy. Sample is more of a hybrid IDL/gap holder than terror off the edge. Murphy and Ossai are questionable as backups. Murphy was solo blocked by a TE at times.  Should Hendrickson have to miss any time the pass rush looks really shaky. 

JFC, people need to learn to give patience to rookies.
What is to say drafting yet another DE will result in any kind of decent playing time for that rookie this year?
The pecking order will be Hendrickson and Hubbard getting majority of snaps with Murphy likely first off the bench.
Hendrickson and Hubbard are signed through 2025, so any rookie is likely not getting significant playing time until 2026.
You wanna toss yet another 1st round pick to DE when they may not make significant contributions until Year 3?

But if you add another edge, then 1) you'll have to cut Sample or Ossai, and 2) that's another premium draft pick toward a position they just added to last year and taking away from a position that is more of a need.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-05-2024, 08:50 AM)Synric Wrote: What's fun about Amarius Mims is if you disregard the playing time and look at everything else he is the best overall fit at OT for the Bengals with his position (RT over Left), tape, measureables, where his upside is, pedigree (5 star national top 10 recruit), winning program... lol

Yea I know, but the lack of experience is what scares me.
If the Bengals feel like that's not a problem and like what he has to offer, I'll hope for the best, obviously.

[depthchart]

(04-05-2024, 11:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: JFC, people need to learn to give patience to rookies.
What is to say drafting yet another DE will result in any kind of decent playing time for that rookie this year?
The pecking order will be Hendrickson and Hubbard getting majority of snaps with Murphy likely first off the bench.
Hendrickson and Hubbard are signed through 2025, so any rookie is likely not getting significant playing time until 2026.
You wanna toss yet another 1st round pick to DE when they may not make significant contributions until Year 3?

But if you add another edge, then 1) you'll have to cut Sample or Ossai, and 2) that's another premium draft pick toward a position they just added to last year and taking away from a position that is more of a need.

This is how I look at it.

Could you be passing up a GREAT player ?

Say we have 7 reasonable Choices at pick #18.         OT      DT     DE    Corner    Tight End     WR    Interior O-line

If 1 guy at 1 of those positions Stands out as being someone you expect to be GREAT should you pass on him for a bigger need ?

If ALL are equally good then go with need or maybe also to help with the Future Finances like a TEE replacement.

People may be leaning towards OT which may be the Weakest or riskiest option depending on who is there.

Would a GREAT IOL prospect be better than a more developmental OT longer term ?

If you thought a DE could be the next TJ Watt, should you pass on him because the Bengals have Depth there ?  Or pass on a Great Corner ?

There may be no right or wrong answer here just preferences and I would just think hard before ruling a Position or Player out.