Cordell Volson and this offensive line

[Joelist]

Pressure is a subjective stat in any event. It does not take the whole offense into account (what was the play call, was there supposed to be another blocker (like Mixon who constantly just went out to catch leaving his blocking spot prematurely) and a number of other factors. It's pretty meaningless to the point that different sources have different pressure numbers.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-28-2024, 10:57 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I know that a pressure is not a good thing...

I'm just saying that he hasn't allowed many sacks.
That doesn't mean I'm saying allowing pressures is ok, just that at least there haven't been 10+ sacks to go along with those pressures.
It's still bad, just not as bad as it could be.

Yeah, it would be much different if Olrando was giving up a ton of Sacks on top of the pressures. 

Honestly, it was a bit unfair to judge a lot of the OL last year with Burrow being hurt for most of the year.

I think if both stay healthy this year both should have their best season. I think Burrow when healthy helps Orlando out more than 
the running QB's he blocked for before. Burrow can run, but only when needed or he calls it.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-28-2024, 02:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, it would be much different if Olrando was giving up a ton of Sacks on top of the pressures. 

Honestly, it was a bit unfair to judge a lot of the OL last year with Burrow being hurt for most of the year.

I think if both stay healthy this year both should have their best season. I think Burrow when healthy helps Orlando out more than 
the running QB's he blocked for before. Burrow can run, but only when needed or he calls it.

Brown in KC was also used to having an upper-tier OG next to him too.
In Cincy, he has Volson.

[Lucius Cincinnatus]

(03-28-2024, 05:38 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Brown in KC was also used to having an upper-tier OG next to him too.
In Cincy, he has Volson.

We're paying him $16M a year and you all are really sitting here saying "well, yea, he leads the league in pressures allowed but at least he isn't giving up that many sacks" and saying well, he doesn't have an all-pro guard next to him...Are we really that afraid to say he didn't live up to his contract last year? 

He isn't a young player to make excuses for. Let's call a spade a spade. He isn't paid to be an average to below average LT where you need to squint your eyes, make excuses, and convince yourself that his play isn't as bad as it looked.

[Joelist]

I've been consistent - he did not have a bad year. Pressures are a VERY subjective thing and in addition the system the team uses on offense is OL unfriendly. When they have actually done things to confuse defenses and let the linemen attack everything looks a lot different - and better.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-28-2024, 06:39 PM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: We're paying him $16M a year and you all are really sitting here saying "well, yea, he leads the league in pressures allowed but at least he isn't giving up that many sacks" and saying well, he doesn't have an all-pro guard next to him...Are we really that afraid to say he didn't live up to his contract last year? 

He isn't a young player to make excuses for. Let's call a spade a spade. He isn't paid to be an average to below average LT where you need to squint your eyes, make excuses, and convince yourself that his play isn't as bad as it looked.

You're making a leap that I'm saying he played well by pointing out facts that he didn't allow a lot of sacks.
I never said I think he did well.
I pointed out multiple times throughout the season he was allowing a ton of pressures.
I don't think he played well.
I'm just saying it could have been even worse.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-28-2024, 07:49 PM)Joelist Wrote: I've been consistent - he did not have a bad year. Pressures are a VERY subjective thing and in addition the system the team uses on offense is OL unfriendly. When they have actually done things to confuse defenses and let the linemen attack everything looks a lot different - and better.

To some extent.

What exactly determines a hurry by definition?
Sack and hit are obvious.

The definition I always went off of was when the QB is forced to move to avoid contact or throwing the ball earlier than expected (typically resulting in an incompletion).
I think intent of scrambling and/or throwing sooner than planned is what can be considered subjective.

[*bfine32*]

(03-28-2024, 06:39 PM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: We're paying him $16M a year and you all are really sitting here saying "well, yea, he leads the league in pressures allowed but at least he isn't giving up that many sacks" and saying well, he doesn't have an all-pro guard next to him...Are we really that afraid to say he didn't live up to his contract last year? 

He isn't a young player to make excuses for. Let's call a spade a spade. He isn't paid to be an average to below average LT where you need to squint your eyes, make excuses, and convince yourself that his play isn't as bad as it looked.

What constitutes "pressure"? 

Made-up stats are made up.

OBJ did fine at LT last year. 

[Housh]

(03-28-2024, 06:39 PM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: We're paying him $16M a year and you all are really sitting here saying "well, yea, he leads the league in pressures allowed but at least he isn't giving up that many sacks" and saying well, he doesn't have an all-pro guard next to him...Are we really that afraid to say he didn't live up to his contract last year? 

He isn't a young player to make excuses for. Let's call a spade a spade. He isn't paid to be an average to below average LT where you need to squint your eyes, make excuses, and convince yourself that his play isn't as bad as it looked.

You are drunk

OBJr was great last season

Especially seeing as Volson is his LG.

[Frank Booth]

(03-28-2024, 11:27 PM)Housh Wrote: You are drunk

OBJr was great last season

Especially seeing as Volson is his LG.

You have a strange definition of great

[XenoMorph]

(03-28-2024, 11:27 PM)Housh Wrote: You are drunk

OBJr was great last season

Especially seeing as Volson is his LG.

nothing on or about our OL was great or has been great in a few years now

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-28-2024, 06:39 PM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: We're paying him $16M a year and you all are really sitting here saying "well, yea, he leads the league in pressures allowed but at least he isn't giving up that many sacks" and saying well, he doesn't have an all-pro guard next to him...Are we really that afraid to say he didn't live up to his contract last year? 

He isn't a young player to make excuses for. Let's call a spade a spade. He isn't paid to be an average to below average LT where you need to squint your eyes, make excuses, and convince yourself that his play isn't as bad as it looked.

Not saying Orlando played well, saying he should play much better this year with a healthy Joe Burrow.

The entire OL played pretty shitty last year, but it sure didn't help being in the Shotgun most of the year when Burrow was hurt.

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(03-27-2024, 11:53 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Latham not working out at his Pro Day really has made some people turn away from him (at least fans).
Mims worries me with lack of playing time at the position up to this point.

If I'm going any RT, Fuaga is probably top of my list.
Latham, then Guyton, then Mims.
I think Mims has the higher ceiling over Guyton but I think there's more risk.

If Fuaga is still around then absolutely!  Most boards I've seen have the former Beaver going in the top 10.

My ROTs are Fuaga, Latham, Mimms, and then Guyton.  Most analysts are saying this is the best OT crop in decades, so we have to get one of them.  Then DT and CB need to be addressed.  I think DT Braden Fisk out of Florida State and Khyree Jackson CB Oregon would be good 2nd round picks to address our needs at those positions.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-28-2024, 05:38 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Brown in KC was also used to having an upper-tier OG next to him too.
In Cincy, he has Volson.

I would say it is more about coaching and scheme. He was a Pro Bowler in Baltimore, he was a Pro Bowler in Kansas City. He comes here and breaks his 4 year streak.

[Sled21]

People need to account for when you have a QB who tries to extend plays instead of making two reads and then throwing it out of bounds, pressure rates and sack rates are going to go up. It's the nature of the beast. Burrow doesn't care, just like he doesn't care about 3rd down sacks unless they take you out of field goal range.

[Frank Booth]

(04-08-2024, 10:57 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I would say it is more about coaching and scheme. He was a Pro Bowler in Baltimore, he was a Pro Bowler in Kansas City. He comes here and breaks his 4 year streak.

He should’ve never been a pro bowler those years anyways. He just happened to play for really good and media favorite teams.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-08-2024, 11:37 AM)Sled21 Wrote: People need to account for when you have a QB who tries to extend plays instead of making two reads and then throwing it out of bounds, pressure rates and sack rates are going to go up. It's the nature of the beast. Burrow doesn't care, just like he doesn't care about 3rd down sacks unless they take you out of field goal range.

Burrow couldn't even extend plays last year for most of the season so that wasn't Orlando's problem, it was always being in the Shotgun
and Burrow being hurt and running the ball the least of any team so we were predictable. Ends could just pin their ears back and go after
the QB and get mad pressure numbers on our Tackles.

(04-08-2024, 11:42 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: He should’ve never been a pro bowler those years anyways. He just happened to play for really good and media favorite teams.

Sad but probably true.