OTAs

[jj22]

(05-29-2024, 11:38 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote:  but his contract says nothing about his ability to protect the QB.

I never said it did. I said it was backup pay and if any of the 4 million was based on incentives and workout bonuses that he is missing we talking barely over vet minimum. Again, that isn't guaranteed starter money for RT.

People can twist my words all they want as they typically do when I speak fact that they hate to hear, then they work themselves up into a frenzy over their own spin of my post. I don't know how clear I can be. But I said what I said and it's all in this thread. I never spoke on Browns ability to play. I spoke on what he is getting paid.

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-29-2024, 11:51 AM)jj22 Wrote: I never said it did. I said it was backup pay and if any of the 4 million was based on incentives and workout bonuses that he is missing we talking barely over vet minimum. Again, that isn't guaranteed starter money for RT.

People can twist my words all they want as they typically do when I speak fact and they hate to hear it, then they work themselves up into a frenzy over their own spin of my post. I don't know how clear I can be. But I said what I said and it's all in this thread. I never spoke on Browns ability to play. I spoke on what he is getting paid.

I'm not trying to twist, just pointing out that his small contract isn't really reflective of his ability on the field. I just think it's important to distinguish between the two. If he was more reliable, he'd be getting paid more. 

[jj22]

I actually not concerned with Trent being out, they have been pretty open about it being for personal reasons and he has been around for some of the offseason training. I still think he starts as long as what ever is going on isn't more than what they are saying.

Rankins I think is lame for him to not be around. Given that contract and the supposed big shoes he was brought in to fill.

Chase, I'll hold my emotions. I'd love to see him here and leading the young wideout group. Setting the standard of attendance that got them the championship runs. But he'll be ready I'm sure.

[Bengalbug]

(05-29-2024, 11:51 AM)jj22 Wrote: I never said it did. I said it was backup pay and if any of the 4 million was based on incentives and workout bonuses that he is missing we talking barely over vet minimum. Again, that isn't guaranteed starter money for RT.

People can twist my words all they want as they typically do when I speak fact that they hate to hear, then they work themselves up into a frenzy over their own spin of my post. I don't know how clear I can be. But I said what I said and it's all in this thread. I never spoke on Browns ability to play. I spoke on what he is getting paid.

Trent brown is the 15th highest paid RT in the NFL for 2024 @ $4,750,000. Trent brown is the 46th highest paid tackle in the NFL (meaning most 31/32 LT are being paid more).

Trent Brown got a $2,000,000 signing bonus.

Lael Collins, signed by the bills, is getting $3,000,000 less than Trent brown. He is still the 22nd highest paid RT for 2024… but this is a better example of “backup” pay.

It’s also interesting at brown currently has the 16th highest cap hit for the bengals in 2024. Dante smith and Cody ford are around $1,250,000, and we can all agree that they are backup.

Trent brown is T-8th in 2024 prorated signing bonus with Sheldon rankins, Sam Hubbard and Logan Wilson.

Trent brown is 17th on the team in dead cap ($2,000,000) meaning if the bengals cut him, they owe him that regardless.

Sure, he might be a backup (most likely due to an injury and losing his spot). But in no way can we sit here and pretend that his salary is indicative of a backup T salary. It’s just not factual.

[*bfine32*]

(05-29-2024, 11:23 AM)Whatever Wrote: I mean, is Chase a no-show due to his contract?  Most likely, though at this point it's probably a "I'm not risking a 9 figure contract at voluntarily OTA's" sort of situation.  He's already hooked up with Joe this off-season and he knows that he's a Bengal for the next 2, almost guaranteed to be 3, years, so it's likely little more than that.  Everyone would like him to be there, but guys miss voluntaries all the time.  Look at Trey last year.  If he starts missing mandatories, it's an issue, but the guy is an elite player.  He'll be fine.

I'm more concerned with Brown, as he's been fairly inconsistent during his career and is on a one year prove-it deal.  He needs to get his chemistry down with the rest of the line.

Yeah, I'm done suggesting why JC is a no-show. Folks can believe what they want and it'll most likely be swayed by how big of a fan of his you are.

The LAST thing I'm worried about with JC sitting out not showing is his chemistry with Burrow. I wonder what he could bring to the WR JB. If we're to believe early reports, Burton is going to take on Chase's role as JC plays more in the slot.  Be nice to have JC in Burton's ear.

I agree that I'm more concerned with TB's absence. Like I mentioned earlier he was here earlier. 

bfine's conspiracy theory: Brown showed up pushing 4-bills and Zac sent him home to get in shape. I'd also like to know why Rankin's isn't present. If someone was paying me $26 Mil; I;d move a few things around to attend the Company Picnic.

[jj22]

Ok so my question is if starting RT only cost 4m how is it we've struggled to lock down the position in a decade?...

[Bengalbug]

(05-29-2024, 01:16 PM)jj22 Wrote: Ok so my question is if starting RT only cost 4m how is it we've struggled to lock down the position in a decade?...

Starting does not equal great, or even good at times. The fact is Trent brown, when healthy, is a top 10 RT and maybe top ten tackle overall.

If Trent brown had no injuries he wouldn’t be $4,750,000 he would be more. If Trent brown had no injuries, we may have needed to draft mims to start this year, the bengals may not have been able to aquire him.

The biggest reason we haven’t been able to lock down any OL in a decade is due to poor drafting.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-28-2024, 05:32 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Trent brown was the 11th highest rated tackle in 2023, when he played.  You are spot on, outside of injury, Trent brown is locked in as our RT.  10 guys in the NFL played T better than Trent brown last year.  IF mims had a full collegiate career worth of plays/experience, maybe….  But he would be on a HOF trajectory if he came in a a top 10 OL his rookie year.  I hope he develops into that, but I don’t expect anything close to that in year 1.  No one should.  

T-11. TRENT BROWN: NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS: 80.2

Now set to hit free agency this offseason, the hulking tackle struggled to put together a full season once again in 2023. He played just 11 games — including two with fewer than 35 total snaps — but when healthy, he was at the top of his game.

The Patriots tackle posted career highs in offensive grade (80.2) and run-blocking grade (80.7) and gave up just 17 total pressures on 346 pass-blocking snaps, showing there is definitely something left in the tank.

Great stuff Bengalbug, reps. Surprised Trent was as good as he was in run blocking which was supposed to be where he isn't quite as good.

Yes, damn good player. We got him for a good deal is all because of his injury history. If he is healthy, he is starting at RT against the Pats in 
the opener. One could argue that Trent when healthy is better than the guy at LT as he doesn't give up near as many pressures and we paid 
this guy a lot simply because he hasn't had the injury problems.

I have crazy high hopes for Amarius Mims, having Trent Brown in front of him is even better so we don't have to throw him in there immediately.

Expecting Mims to play as a rookie at some point though for sure with Trent's injury history.

[Whatever]

(05-29-2024, 12:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yeah, I'm done suggesting why JC is a no-show. Folks can believe what they want and it'll most likely be swayed by how big of a fan of his you are.

The LAST thing I'm worried about with JC sitting out not showing is his chemistry with Burrow. I wonder what he could bring to the WR JB. If we're to believe early reports, Burton is going to take on Chase's role as JC plays more in the slot.  Be nice to have JC in Burton's ear.

I agree that I'm more concerned with TB's absence. Like I mentioned earlier he was here earlier. 

bfine's conspiracy theory: Brown showed up pushing 4-bills and Zac sent him home to get in shape. I'd also like to know why Rankin's isn't present. If someone was paying me $26 Mil; I;d move a few things around to attend the Company Picnic.

I mean, I'm still a card carrying member of Team Chase, and it's probably his contract.  

[jj22]

(05-29-2024, 12:41 PM)Bengalbug Wrote:  
 
Lael Collins, signed by the bills, is getting $3,000,000 less than Trent brown.  He is still the 22nd highest paid RT for 2024… but this is a better example of “backup” pay.  

It’s also interesting at brown currently has the 16th highest cap hit for the bengals in 2024. Dante smith and Cody ford are around $1,250,000, and we can all agree that they are backup.

Collins was out of the league last year and who else would sign Cody and Dante? They didn't get backup pay, they got no guarantee to even make the roster pay....

Cody is likely to make the roster here, but these examples you gave are far from even backups.

[*bfine32*]

I and others got sidetracked on a back and forth about who isn't there. Shame on us. Shout out to the guys who found the time to be there.

Great to see Joe out there and flicking it around.

Great to see Zeus out there working w/ Mims

Great to see CTB and DJT making plays at CB

Great to see Bell pushing Battle for the starting gig

Great to Geiseki making plays at TE

Great to see Ossai and Murphy trying to make the leap

[Luvnit2]

(05-28-2024, 04:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: According to you...

Without jumping to conclusions things we know:

JaMarr is in the final year of his rookie contract 

JaMarr wants a new contract

JaMarr is skipping (not sitting out, just not showing up) OTAs even though he's been in town

IMO I'd say his "not showing up" is related to contracts

Others have said it's possibly "by design" to give the other WRs more reps, but I'm "jumping to conclusions". 

Here's Adam Scheftner doing the same:
https://x.com/AdamSchefter/status/1795478827453272186

We have the 5th year option on Jamar. Only reason we could extend him now is because he made pro bowl first 3 years.

I want him signed long term, but it appears Chase and not FO is driving the second contract.

[casear2727]

(05-29-2024, 08:04 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: We have the 5th year option on Jamar. Only reason we could extend him now is because he made pro bowl first 3 years.

What does this mean?

[*bfine32*]

(05-29-2024, 08:04 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: We have the 5th year option on Jamar. Only reason we could extend him now is because he made pro bowl first 3 years.

I want him signed long term, but it appears Chase and not FO is driving the second contract.

Also, if he's concerned about Jefferson's situation, he should just wait a year;  as JJ didn't get signed long-term after year 3 and it appears Minny is in no hurry to sign him after year 4. 

[Bengalbug]

(05-29-2024, 03:52 PM)jj22 Wrote: Collins was out of the league last year and who else would sign Cody and Dante? They didn't get backup pay, they got no guarantee to even make the roster pay....

Cody is likely to make the roster here, but these examples you gave are far from even backups.

A team rostered Billy price the last few years, same with Cedric O. Cmon JJ22… EVERY team has players like Dante and ford. This is getting silly.

They are the very definition of backups. Seems like you want all pro backups… lol.

[jj22]

Of course. The hope to never have to see play back up back ups. I think you get a strong backup swing tackle for 5m. One that can step in and close out a season if needed.

I think the contract was a steal for the Bengals (hopefully).

Whatever the case we all agree if he had a better injury history he’d be paid like a guaranteed starter…….

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

Vets miss OTA's all the time. It gives the depth players more reps and helps them develop a tad quicker.

Why focus on the negative when the team has so many positives these days?

[XenoMorph]

(05-29-2024, 08:04 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: We have the 5th year option on Jamar. Only reason we could extend him now is because he made pro bowl first 3 years.

I want him signed long term, but it appears Chase and not FO is driving the second contract.

Well he eligible for a new contract now that hes played 3 full years...    but the pro bowl doesnt have anything to do with that part lol..

Its incentive to sign him sooner than later with the way contracts are going up though...  and his next 2 years already set

[Bengalbug]

(05-30-2024, 09:32 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Well he eligible for a new contract now that hes played 3 full years...    but the pro bowl doesnt have anything to do with that part lol..

Its incentive to sign him sooner than later with the way contracts are going up though...  and his next 2 years already set

Correct, pro bowl/all pro selections only has to do with the value of 5th year option.

[Bengalbug]

(05-29-2024, 11:58 PM)jj22 Wrote: Of course. The hope to never have to see play back up back ups. I think you get a strong backup swing tackle for 5m. One that can step in and close out a season if needed.

I think the contract was a steal for the Bengals (hopefully).

Whatever the case we all agree if he had a better injury history he’d be paid like a guaranteed starter…….

Over Half of the starting right tackles in the nfl are below $5 AAV. You don’t pay backup “swing tackles” $5m AAV. Trent brown is our starting RT who can move to Left if orlando gets hurt and then Mims takes over at right. Trent has the ability to play both sides, which is tremendous flexibility.

I’m not sure where the confusion is but at $4,7500,000 the bengals are paying Trent brown like a guaranteed starter (pending health). This is relative to the rest of the league.