Zimmer v. Anarumo

[Bengalitis]

I prefer Anamuro... he got us to the super bowl after all with his Defense, he got the players... Anamuro 1 - 0 Zimmer. Zimmer is good too, but accomplish less than Anamuro. If we encompass all (their personnel, stats, etc)

[casear2727]

(06-08-2024, 05:26 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Lou and no one here should say otherwise.

What he did to opposing offenses in that Super Bowl run is literally all you need to know. That defense carried us.

What a silly thing to say.  3 games?

We beat a so-so Raiders team by 7 at home, a very bad Tannehill (they still had over 350 yards even with 3 interceptions), and the Chiefs - after giving up 21 points in the 1st half?

We were fighting for the title of worst defense in the NFL last season, and I could seriously pick apart our recent defenses with advanced metrics.

Give Zimmer Burrow and those teams would be competing for Super Bowls as well.  

[J24]

(06-08-2024, 05:48 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: People say this but Ja’Marr Chase literally set the record for yards by a rookie receiver during that postseason. He had plenty to do with that run himself, and the success of that season in general.

This  can be said about everyone besides the offensive line; especially during the playoff run!

[Joelist]

Lou isn't a bad DC and he does deserve credit for the defensive trickery he pulled that made Patrick Mahomes look bad after halftime in the AFCCG in 2021-22. That said they also are inconsistent on defense under both of these DCs but I do think Zim did not get the Free Agent support Lou has also. I would also note's Zim's defenses had a bad habit of Imploding in the playoffs - in only 1 of the 5 games did they play well. Lou's defenses seem to up their game in postseason. One thing however is wondering what Zim would do with the Free Agency support Lou has gotten - the thought is enticing.

[samhain]

(06-08-2024, 02:06 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I wholeheartedly disagree.

We had the 4th overall/6th scoring defense with these starters....
DL: Robert Geathers, Domata Peko, Tank Johnson, Jonathan Fanene
LB: Rey Maualuga, Dhani Jones, Keith Rivers
DB: Jonathan Joseph, Leon Hall, Nedu Ndukwe, Chris Crocker

We also had the 7th overall/9th scoring defense with these starters....
DL: Robert Geathers, Domata Peko, Geno Atkins, Frostee Rucker
LB: Manny Lawson, Rey Maualuga, Thomas Howard
DB: Nate Clements, Leon Hall, Chris Crocker, Reggie Neslon

Mike Zimmer got Antwan Odom in his first year and after that the next biggest outside FA we added to the defense in his 6 years here was I think Nate Clements at 2yr/$10.5m.

He did have Atkins, and Dunlap was very good, but the vast majority of our defense were not good players individually. He took a lot of bad pieces and turned them into a good collective.


... I mostly was just bummed out because I can't help but think we had a 5 year window there where if we actually participated in quality FA signing we had a couple legit SB shots there.

Well when you put it like that.

Idk, must be a perception thing in relation to the offenses.  It never felt like the defense was a liability or that the talent was lacking when Zimmer was running it. 

That said, I often forget when the cutoff between Zimmer and Guenther occurred. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(06-08-2024, 09:18 PM)J24 Wrote: This  can be said about everyone besides the offensive line; especially during the playoff run!

Chase, McPherson, and timely turnovers by the defense. Obviously other guys contributed (like Burrow and Tee), but those were probably the biggest factors of that run.

[Essex Johnson]

Give me Zimmer in regular season and Anarumo in playoffs...

[grampahol]

Something to consider is the AFC wasn't stacked with QBs under Zimmer like it is now. Losing Bates and Bell at the same time last year was crushing  and they did draft CBs much higher under Zimmer.. He was able to bring guys in off the scrap heap and get the best out of them.. I guess time will tell though. The whole story with Lou hasn't been written yet.  

[*Synric*]

Lou Anarumo's coverages are more complex than Mike Zimmer's but Zimmer has been by far the better scout and talent developer.

[grampahol]

(06-09-2024, 09:05 AM)Synric Wrote: Lou Anarumo's coverages are more complex than Mike Zimmer's but Zimmer has been by far the better scout and talent developer.

I have the heart of a lion sitting in the cardiac ward waiting for another stent.. ?

[Sled21]

(06-08-2024, 05:26 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Lou and no one here should say otherwise.

What he did to opposing offenses in that Super Bowl run is literally all you need to know. That defense carried us.

Correct answer. I am a huge Mike ZAimmer fan, but Lou holding KC to 3 in tbe 2nd half and the SB run puts him on another level.

[BengalsBong]

Zimmer would rotate his D-line and keep them fresh something Lou needs to improve doing.

[BengalsBong]

(06-09-2024, 09:05 AM)Synric Wrote: Lou Anarumo's coverages are more complex than Mike Zimmer's but Zimmer has been by far the better scout and talent developer.

Zimmer would dumb the defense down if the players could not pick it up Lou refuses to compromise it seems. 

[Lucius Cincinnatus]

(06-09-2024, 08:21 AM)grampahol Wrote: Something to consider is the AFC wasn't stacked with QBs under Zimmer like it is now. Losing Bates and Bell at the same time last year was crushing  and they did draft CBs much higher under Zimmer.. He was able to bring guys in off the scrap heap and get the best out of them.. I guess time will tell though. The whole story with Lou hasn't been written yet.  

The AFC was pretty stacked...and I'd argue the AFC had better QBs during Zimmer's tenure. Though the QB depth in the AFC is probably better now, the high end QBs, I'd probably take the Zimmer era AFC Qbs. 

Brady
Manning
Rivers
Big Ben

[Luvnit2]

(06-08-2024, 01:35 PM)J24 Wrote: They're asked to do two different things.

Zimmer defenses were asked to carry the team while Lou defense is asked not to blow the game.

I think this is more your opinion than how our FO and Zak consider Lou.

It would be dumb to not want a great defense to get the ball back to offense quicker and hold onto leads in my humble opinion.

My guess is Lou wants his defense to be great every year, not just mediocre. Mediocrity gets you fired.

[Au165]

(06-09-2024, 03:39 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Zimmer would dumb the defense down if the players could not pick it up Lou refuses to compromise it seems. 

I am not sure why you believe this, but not sure it's based in reality. NFL defenses are all very complex and I think fans for the most part have no clue what is happening in reality. Zone coverage rules and installs for instance can be multiple pages for a single play. They are complex because they have to be able to adjust to what the offense does, it's a reactive position to be in. 

[KillerGoose]

(06-10-2024, 02:21 PM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: The AFC was pretty stacked...and I'd argue the AFC had better QBs during Zimmer's tenure. Though the QB depth in the AFC is probably better now, the high end QBs, I'd probably take the Zimmer era AFC Qbs. 

Brady
Manning
Rivers
Big Ben

Hmmm....I feel pretty strongly the other way around. The AFC has insane elite QB play right now.

Mahomes
Rodgers
Burrow
Allen
Lamar
Herbert
Tua

Maybe you believe Rodgers is going to be bad once he returns, but even if that's the case, I think there are multiple QBs on that list that are better than both Rivers and Ben at bare minimum. Mahomes and Brady OR Manning cancel each other out at this point. 

[Essex Johnson]

(06-10-2024, 02:21 PM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: The AFC was pretty stacked...and I'd argue the AFC had better QBs during Zimmer's tenure. Though the QB depth in the AFC is probably better now, the high end QBs, I'd probably take the Zimmer era AFC Qbs. 

Brady
Manning
Rivers
Big Ben

Solid QBs no doubt all HOFs ,but Mahomes, Allen, Jackson are also looking at HOF careers plus young guns in Herbert and Tua, so think it is a wash.

[J24]

(06-10-2024, 02:41 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think this is more your opinion than how our FO and Zak consider Lou.

It would be dumb to not want a great defense to get the ball back to offense quicker and hold onto leads in my humble opinion.

My guess is Lou wants his defense to be great every year, not just mediocre. Mediocrity gets you fired.

1.) Of course it's my opinion.
2.) It's not a knock on Lou at all.
3.) I should have said that Lou is more situational based vs Zimmer who dominates snap to snap.

Because we have an elite QB in Burrow and everything else orbits around that. The Defense is asked to be a supporting actor and not the lead.

While Zimmer was here we had Dalton and Palmer who were more good to very QBs who needed a defense to carry the load.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

Zim is a very good DC, might have been better if he had the investment on defense Lou does. But who knows if that was him just wanting the players he had vs free agents or draft picks?

I think Lou has much less of a leash and makes better halftime adjustments. The need for two good safety's exposed the Bengals last season, and hopefully Battle, Stone, and Bell waiting in the wings will ensure they do not get exposed as bad again. Plus love DJ Reader, but the DT pass rush will help along with Hubbard being healthy and the d-line actually having good rotational depth.