The Slot is Dead

[Frank Booth]

(10-21-2024, 02:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: But the statement I replied to was they aren't separating, which doesn't seem true.

For drops:
Chase - 2 on 41 catchable balls
Iosivas - 3 on 17 catchable balls
Higgins - 4 on 21 catchable balls
Gesicki - 1 on 20 catchable balls

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-wr.php

all yoshi is is an upgrade to Irwin. Yoshi is a #4 receiver. Problem is there is a lack of qualified players to fill the 3rd option behind Tee and Chase. It's certainly not Gesicki, 

[*ochocincos*]

(10-21-2024, 02:03 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: 4th round receivers are supposed to be studs to you? I think Burrow and the coaching staff know more about the wr situation than you lol

really, this is bad team building by the front office. "Sure lets replace our trusted slot player for years with an old 4th round guy who always played the outside in college"

When did I say a 4th rounder is supposed to be a stud?

Could we not say the same about the expectations some are having with putting a 6th rounder from the same draft class out there in the slot and wondering why he isn't performing overly well?

Also, Iosivas had (practically?) no slot experience prior to this year, but people seemed ok giving him a shot there.

If the reality is neither Jones nor Iosivas nor Burton can play the slot, maybe put Chase more in the slot and try these dudes outside more?

Saying Jones has the skill set, speed, and agility for the slot though isn't a reach.

[Frank Booth]

(10-21-2024, 02:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote:  maybe put Chase more in the slot and try these dudes outside more?

they do that. No defender respects yoshi though. Yoshi has to win 1 on 1 on the outside more in order for chase to find success more in the slot

[*ochocincos*]

(10-21-2024, 02:13 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: they do that. No defender respects yoshi though. Yoshi has to win 1 on 1 on the outside more in order for chase to find success more in the slot

I know they do that some.
What I'm saying is maybe do it more.

I agree though, one of these WRs gotta start winning outside in these situations otherwise defense is just gonna ignore them and keep focusing on Chase.

I think we all probably thought these WRs drafted the past couple years were better than they're showing.

[Frank Booth]

(10-21-2024, 02:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I know they do that some.
What I'm saying is maybe do it more.

I agree though, one of these WRs gotta start winning outside in these situations otherwise defense is just gonna ignore them and keep focusing on Chase.

I think we all probably thought these WRs drafted the past couple years were better than they're showing.

4th and 6th rounders shouldnt have to be relied upon in year 2 unfortunately. Front office incompetence strikes again

[coachmcneil71]

(10-21-2024, 01:39 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Context matters, no WR on the titans has 200 yards on the season. Boyd is 13 yards away from being tied for the team high in yards… Ridley.

Context does matter, and your numbers are correct. Ts, they started Rudolf this week and looked a little better. Ridley has sucked for 3 seasons. What's your point here? TB is long in the tooth and a Titan, not a Bengal. 

He's not walking through that door anytime soon. 

[Frank Booth]

(10-21-2024, 02:29 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Context does matter, and you're numbers are correct. Ts, they started Rudolf this week and looked a little better. Ridley has sucked for 3 seasons. What's your point here? TB is long in the tooth and a Titan, not a Bengal. Tough shit! 

He's not walking through that door anytime soon. 

and the bengals are in tough shit because they dont have a 3rd option as good as Boyd. Go figure

[Bengalbug]

(10-21-2024, 02:29 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Context does matter, and your numbers are correct. Ts, they started Rudolf this week and looked a little better. Ridley has sucked for 3 seasons. What's your point here? TB is long in the tooth and a Titan, not a Bengal. 

He's not walking through that door anytime soon. 

I’d bet, a not insignificant amount of money, the bengals could get him for a late pick. Titans are going nowhere.

[Bengalbug]

(10-21-2024, 02:28 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: 4th and 6th rounders shouldnt have to be relied upon in year 2 unfortunately. Front office incompetence strikes again

If Tee walks, bengals will almost certainly need to spend a high pick on WR.

[Bengalbug]

(10-21-2024, 02:29 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Context does matter, and your numbers are correct. Ts, they started Rudolf this week and looked a little better. Ridley has sucked for 3 seasons. What's your point here? TB is long in the tooth and a Titan, not a Bengal. 

He's not walking through that door anytime soon. 

My point is that Boyd in Cincy would be better than Boyd in TN. My point is Juju (he is hurt now), would be a more reliable than any WR. My point is Hunter renfrow has 3-4x as many career yards and catches than our WR room, outside of Tee and Chase (Combined). My point is terrace Marshall is more NfL production than any WR behind Chase and Tee. My point is burrow has no trust throwing to these guys consistently, outside of extended or broken plays.

Go get:

Mike Williams from the jets.
Boyd from the titans.
Kupp from the rams (kidding… kinda)
Renfrow
Terrace Marshall


They won’t help next week, or maybe even the week after. But after the bye, this is going to continue to rear its ugly head.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-21-2024, 02:28 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: 4th and 6th rounders shouldnt have to be relied upon in year 2 unfortunately. Front office incompetence strikes again

I agree on that, especially a 6th rounder.


I normally follow the rule of thumb that you give up to the number of years of their draft round before expectation of having to be a heavy contributor.
1st rounder should be a heavy contributor going into their 2nd season if not during their rookie year.
2nd rounder should be heavy contributor by Year 3.
3rd rounder by Year 4.
The Day 3 picks are really just rotational/backup guys normally and hope maybe a few of them turn into heavy contributors on O/D.

I had thought Iosivas was going to take at least an extra year, if not two, before getting significant snaps.
On one hand, he's ahead of the curve, but on the other hand...is he really ready yet?

I guess I thought due to Jones's skill set and size compared to Iosivas and Burton, Jones would have been the next in line for slot duties after Boyd left with Iosivas and Burton backing up Higgins and Chase.

[coachmcneil71]

(10-21-2024, 03:47 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: My point is that Boyd in Cincy would be better than Boyd in TN.  My point is Juju (he is hurt now), would be a more reliable than any WR.  My point is Hunter renfrow has 3-4x as many career yards and catches than our WR room, outside of Tee and Chase (Combined).  My point is terrace Marshall is more NfL production than any WR behind Chase and Tee.  My point is burrow has no trust throwing to these guys consistently, outside of extended or broken plays.  

Go get:

Mike Williams from the jets.
Boyd from the titans.
Kupp from the rams (kidding… kinda)
Renfrow
Terrace Marshall


They won’t help next week, or maybe even the week after.  But after the bye, this is going to continue to rear its ugly head.

Alright! Now we know! Juju is a Chief ( I work with one of his and the Sewell brothers cousins btw) . I get where you're coming from , but I don't see it. Maybe Boyd, I suppose, but not the others listed.

 Kupp can't stay healthy. I just don't see the coaches undermining any of these young guys confidence here in Cincy. They're trying to mold these young players not tear them down. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-21-2024, 04:06 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I just don't see the coaches undermining any of these young guys confidence here in Cincy. They're trying to mold these young players not tear them down. 

Trenton Irwin in his age 29 season was already put ahead of Jones, Burton, and All in Week 1 and 2. Pretending that putting an actual starting caliber WR ahead of them now would tear them down or undermine them now seems a bit silly. Also even if it did, so what? Is the goal to win SBs or to protect Jones and Burton's feelings?

[Whatever]

(10-21-2024, 01:17 PM)Synric Wrote: I'm a little less pessimistic. I would like them to expand All's formations and route tree if they want to continue to use him regularly. What they ask him to do he is doing well but he's not being asked much as a receiver. Chase Brown has looked explosive as a runner but hasn't added much to the passing game which I was hoping. Andre Iosivas has not looked good. I hope they at least start giving Jermaine Burton some snaps on the boundary when Chase or Tee are in the slot.

All has shown some good things, particularly as a run blocker, but TE's tend to have a slow learning curve.  It seems like they are concentrating on his blocking first before throwing too much at him as a receiver.  And honestly, if Brown is going to miss time, Ford is going to need a good deal of TE help.

Brown is basically one dimensional.  He pops some nice runs, but brings nothing as a blocker or receiver.  He's a dude that should be getting a handful of carries a game in a RB by committee.  Moss looks like what he is, a journeyman on his 3rd team in 5 years.  They've neglected RB for so long, they're gonna have to take one Day 2, in all likelihood.

WR is just a complete mess.  They better pray that Burton pans out, because they aren't gonna be able to get anybody worth a damn in FA.  Oh, and did we mention they also need a C or G to groom early due to expiring contracts and/or Cappa and Volson being bad?

[Frank Booth]

(10-21-2024, 04:27 PM)Whatever Wrote: All has shown some good things, particularly as a run blocker, but TE's tend to have a slow learning curve.  It seems like they are concentrating on his blocking first before throwing too much at him as a receiver.  And honestly, if Brown is going to miss time, Ford is going to need a good deal of TE help.

Brown is basically one dimensional.  He pops some nice runs, but brings nothing as a blocker or receiver.  He's a dude that should be getting a handful of carries a game in a RB by committee.  Moss looks like what he is, a journeyman on his 3rd team in 5 years.  They've neglected RB for so long, they're gonna have to take one Day 2, in all likelihood.

WR is just a complete mess.  They better pray that Burton pans out, because they aren't gonna be able to get anybody worth a damn in FA.  Oh, and did we mention they also need a C or G to groom early due to expiring contracts and/or Cappa and Volson being bad?

Yep. They’ve backed themselves into a wall where they basically need to sign Higgins. I mean, I have no faith in Burton becoming a legit 2. Maybe a legit 3rd option. They’re gonna need to draft a round 1 WR if they don’t want to give Tee all that money, and even THAT is a gamble.

Unfortunately I see them re-signing Volson too.

Idk, the horrid drafting has this team looking real bleak for the future

[Bengalbug]

(10-21-2024, 04:06 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Alright! Now we know! Juju is a Chief ( I work with one of his and the Sewell brothers cousins btw) . I get where you're coming from , but I don't see it. Maybe Boyd, I suppose, but not the others listed.

 Kupp can't stay healthy. I just don't see the coaches undermining any of these young guys confidence here in Cincy. They're trying to mold these young players not tear them down. 

Juju was before the chiefs signed up to a vet minimum deal bc of offset.

As far as your latter point, they brought back Vonn bell, which relegated battle to the bench. He (Battle) played well last year. Arguably better than anyone in our WR room behind Chase and Higgins. Admittedly, different positions.

[Whatever]

(10-21-2024, 01:37 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: ….but Yoshi is so athletic.  

If I’m in charge of the bengals, I’m calling the titans now to bring back Boyd.  He could be airdropped into the gameplan as soon as this Sunday.

If I was calling the Titans about a WR, it damn sure wouldn't be Boyd.  Dude is WASHED.  

Letting Boyd walk was smart.  Banking on Golden Binns winners to replace him was dumb.

[Bengalbug]

(10-21-2024, 04:44 PM)Whatever Wrote: If I was calling the Titans about a WR, it damn sure wouldn't be Boyd.  Dude is WASHED.  

Letting Boyd walk was smart.  Banking on Golden Binns winners to replace him was dumb.

lol, WASHED by what metric? He was never an overly athletic guy. Even IF he is WASHED… as you say, a WASHED Boyd is still a better 3 than anyone else in the bengals WR room.

And oh by the way, 13 yards separates the top 3 WR in Tenn.

[Bengalbug]

(10-21-2024, 04:44 PM)Whatever Wrote: If I was calling the Titans about a WR, it damn sure wouldn't be Boyd.  Dude is WASHED.  

Letting Boyd walk was smart.  Banking on Golden Binns winners to replace him was dumb.

Tyler Boyd is 10th, in the entire NFL, in catch percentage in the NFL at 75%. I don’t care if he is only averaging 9 yards/catch.

[coachmcneil71]

(10-21-2024, 04:17 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Trenton Irwin in his age 29 season was already put ahead of Jones, Burton, and All in Week 1 and 2. Pretending that putting an actual starting caliber WR ahead of them now would tear them down or undermine them now seems a bit silly. Also even if it did, so what? Is the goal to win SBs or to protect Jones and Burton's feelings?

You can't see the forest for the dang trees can you. Chaos ruled August and early September. JB was throwing the ball to the guys that A) he was getting significant reps with and B) the guys that he trusted from the second tier group of pass catchers. Hence, Yoshi was scoring our tuds. Who seems to be scoring them now that everyone is up to speed and practicing?

This team has dropped two heartbreakers to the two best teams in the AFC; KC and Balt. Both games that they were in and could've easily won. They've had a couple of stinkers in the middle, but are coming off of a division win. 

The sky isn't falling! Complaining after a division win is so atypical Bengal fan!