Pass rushers in AFCN

[Bengalbug]

The bengals have the privilege of playing against two of the best pass rushers in NFL twice a year… Watt and Garrett. It seems like the bengals just don’t have an answer for them, most teams don’t.

Watt has played 13 games against the bengals, he has 12 sacks. TJ watt has 96.5 sacks over 104 games, meaning he has gotten 12.5% of his career sacks against the bengals.

Myles Garrett has played 10 games against the bengals, he has 12 sacks. Myles Garrett has 88.5 sacks over 100 games, meaning he has gotten 13.5% of his sacks against the bengals.

These two have combined for 24 sacks in 23 games, whereas they have 185 sacks against 204 games for their career. If you remove the bengals from the equation, they have 161 sacks against 181 games.

Garrett/Watt v bengals, 1.04 sacks/game
Garrett/Watt v nfl non bengals, .89 sacks/game

Watt has sacked the bengals at least .5 or more times in 10/13 games. In 3 games, watt has had a goose egg (in the sack dept) against the bengals.

Garrett has sacked the bengals at least 1 or more times in 9/10 games. In 1 game, Garrett was held without a sack.

I’ll set the over under at 4 sacks combined for these two, where are you laying the money? Over or under?

I’ll set the over under at 1 game, out of 4, that one of them is held without a sack. Over or under?

I’m going to say under for both. No reason, just a pure gut feel.

Btw, this all came from a recent discussion that burrow had regarding having to treat TJ watt as a DB and the stars were astounding.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(07-08-2024, 06:12 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: The bengals have the privilege of playing against two of the best pass rushers in NFL twice a year… Watt and Garrett. It seems like the bengals just don’t have an answer for them, most teams don’t.  

Watt has played 13 games against the bengals, he has 12 sacks.  TJ watt has 96.5 sacks over 104 games, meaning he has gotten 12.5% of his career sacks against the bengals.

Myles Garrett has played 10 games against the bengals, he has 12 sacks.  Myles Garrett has 88.5 sacks over 100 games, meaning he has gotten 13.5% of his sacks against the bengals.  

These two have combined for 24 sacks in 23 games, whereas they have 185 sacks against 204 games for their career.  If you remove the bengals from the equation, they have 161 sacks against 181 games.

Garrett/Watt v bengals, 1.04 sacks/game
Garrett/Watt v nfl non bengals, .89 sacks/game

Watt has sacked the bengals at least .5 or more times in 10/13 games.  In 3 games, watt has had a goose egg (in the sack dept) against the bengals.

Garrett has sacked the bengals at least 1 or more times in 9/10 games.  In 1 game, Garrett was held without a sack.  

I’ll set the over under at 4 sacks combined for these two, where are you laying the money?  Over or under?

I’ll set the over under at 1 game, out of 4, that one of them is held without a sack.  Over or under?

I’m going to say under for both.  No reason, just a pure gut feel.  

Btw, this all came from a recent discussion that burrow had regarding having to treat TJ watt as a DB and the stars were astounding.

My answer, 

Sample playing h-back and helping out, chipping and being an easy outlet pass for Joe Burrow.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-08-2024, 06:47 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: My answer, 

Sample playing h-back and helping out, chipping and being an easy outlet pass for Joe Burrow.

And it is a good answer plus Jonah simply didn't match up well with either of these guys who rely on physicality. I think having these 
monster Tackles should help and Mims is actually athletic on top of being a monster. I think it will get better, as the stats Bengalbug 
provided sure are concerning. Sucks to be in the Division we are in, but it is what it is.

Sample blocked very well last season and when he was in the backfield at H-Back there were times when Jake Browning actually had
good protection. Happy we extended Sample, never thought I would say that, but he was pretty good last year for us.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Andrew Whitworth is probably why Terrell Suggs isn't a First Ballot HoFer. Pretty sure he only ever gave up 1 sack against him in 11 years and that was in Whitworth's final Bengal year in 2016.

We sadly don't have an Andrew Whitworth to stonewall TWatt or Garrett. I hope Orlando and Mims can be a good duo for the future, but I worry about our OL Coach preventing that.

[Sled21]

Well it would help out if the refs did not allow Twatt to line up offsides on every passing down.

[XenoMorph]

(07-08-2024, 06:12 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: The bengals have the privilege of playing against two of the best pass rushers in NFL twice a year… Watt and Garrett. It seems like the bengals just don’t have an answer for them, most teams don’t.  

Watt has played 13 games against the bengals, he has 12 sacks.  TJ watt has 96.5 sacks over 104 games, meaning he has gotten 12.5% of his career sacks against the bengals.

Myles Garrett has played 10 games against the bengals, he has 12 sacks.  Myles Garrett has 88.5 sacks over 100 games, meaning he has gotten 13.5% of his sacks against the bengals.  

These two have combined for 24 sacks in 23 games, whereas they have 185 sacks against 204 games for their career.  If you remove the bengals from the equation, they have 161 sacks against 181 games.

Garrett/Watt v bengals, 1.04 sacks/game
Garrett/Watt v nfl non bengals, .89 sacks/game

Watt has sacked the bengals at least .5 or more times in 10/13 games.  In 3 games, watt has had a goose egg (in the sack dept) against the bengals.

Garrett has sacked the bengals at least 1 or more times in 9/10 games.  In 1 game, Garrett was held without a sack.  

I’ll set the over under at 4 sacks combined for these two, where are you laying the money?  Over or under?

I’ll set the over under at 1 game, out of 4, that one of them is held without a sack.  Over or under?

I’m going to say under for both.  No reason, just a pure gut feel.  

Btw, this all came from a recent discussion that burrow had regarding having to treat TJ watt as a DB and the stars were astounding.

good run game is an answer for a pass rush

[Sled21]

(07-09-2024, 11:02 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: good run game is an answer for a pass rush

I'd like to see them go "Overload" on every down in the first quarter of a game against Shitsburgh, put an extra RT on the line (Brown and Mims) and just run right at and over Watt on every play. Wear him out and basically just take him out of the game. Once he's worn down, the rest of the defense suffers

[SunsetBengal]

(07-09-2024, 11:29 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I'd like to see them go "Overload" on every down in the first quarter of a game against Shitsburgh, put an extra RT on the line (Brown and Mims) and just run right at and over Watt on every play. Wear him out and basically just take him out of the game. Once he's worn down, the rest of the defense suffers

That's great, but are you taking the over or the under as presented by the OP?

I'm going under on the total of 4 combined, and push on the number of games with 0

[Sled21]

(07-09-2024, 11:31 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's great, but are you taking the over or the under as presented by the OP?

I'm going under on the total of 4 combined, and push on the number of games with 0

Based on how the refs let Watt line up offsides, Garrett's game wrecking abilities, and Joe's tendency to hold the ball too long I'd take over.

[*Synric*]

(07-08-2024, 08:04 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Andrew Whitworth is probably why Terrell Suggs isn't a First Ballot HoFer. Pretty sure he only ever gave up 1 sack against him in 11 years and that was in Whitworth's final Bengal year in 2016.

We sadly don't have an Andrew Whitworth to stonewall TWatt or Garrett. I hope Orlando and Mims can be a good duo for the future, but I worry about our OL Coach preventing that.

Elvis Dumervil and Johnathan Abraham were the two guys that really gave Big Whit trouble. Dumervil was so short he could get under the 6'7 Whit. I could probabaly put Dwight Freeny on the list too because of his bend. 

[Whatever]

(07-08-2024, 08:04 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Andrew Whitworth is probably why Terrell Suggs isn't a First Ballot HoFer. Pretty sure he only ever gave up 1 sack against him in 11 years and that was in Whitworth's final Bengal year in 2016.

We sadly don't have an Andrew Whitworth to stonewall TWatt or Garrett. I hope Orlando and Mims can be a good duo for the future, but I worry about our OL Coach preventing that.

It'd be nice, but the thing with guys like Watt and Garrett is the DC can always move them around to a more favorable matchup.  That's a big reason the WAR for OL is so poor.  You can't just shift the OL around to get your best on their best.  Most any other positions, you can.

[*Synric*]

(07-09-2024, 11:43 AM)Whatever Wrote: It'd be nice, but the thing with guys like Watt and Garrett is the DC can always move them around to a more favorable matchup.  That's a big reason the WAR for OL is so poor.  You can't just shift the OL around to get your best on their best.  Most any other positions, you can.

For a while Myles Garrett was a force but he had zero help so it was limited. Last year the Browns hired Jim Schwartz and he rebuilt their DLine with guys like ZaDarius Smith, Shelby Harris, Ogbo Okoronkwo, and Maruice Hurst which completely changed that defense from middle of the pack to top 3. 

The Steelers team build through their lines...

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-09-2024, 11:02 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: good run game is an answer for a pass rush

The truth. Sure hope we can get a good running game going this season, this would help everything.

[007BengalsFan]

(07-09-2024, 11:41 AM)Synric Wrote: Elvis Dumervil and Johnathan Abraham were the two guys that really gave Big Whit trouble. Dumervil was so short he could get under the 6'7 Whit. I could probabaly put Dwight Freeny on the list too because of his bend. 

Freeney made Whitworth look like a chump.  Of course he made a lot of guys look bad which is why he is a Hall of Famer

[007BengalsFan]

(07-08-2024, 06:12 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: ...These two have combined for 24 sacks in 23 games, whereas they have 185 sacks against 204 games for their career.  If you remove the bengals from the equation, they have 161 sacks against 181 games.

Garrett/Watt v bengals, 1.04 sacks/game
Garrett/Watt v nfl non bengals, .89 sacks/game...

I think this just goes to show they can and will take advantage of bad offensive lines.  The Bengals have had some very poor graded offensive lines.  It's no surprise Watt/Garrett have better than their average sacks against worse than NFL average Bengals lines.

[higgy100]

(07-09-2024, 02:51 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I think this just goes to show they can and will take advantage of bad offensive lines.  The Bengals have had some very poor graded offensive lines.  It's no surprise Watt/Garrett have better than their average sacks against worse than NFL average Bengals lines.

Just a lot of things have lined up to make those guys look All-World. Average to below average OL play plus average, at best, running game plus JB many times holding onto the ball to long wanting routes to develop which was a bigger issue his first couple years. Cinci. has been too much of a finesse offense over the years.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-09-2024, 03:38 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Just a lot of things have lined up to make those guys look All-World. Average to below average OL play plus average, at best, running game plus JB many times holding onto the ball to long wanting routes to develop which was a bigger issue his first couple years. Cinci. has been too much of a finesse offense over the years.

Which is why I was wanting us to Draft a RB like Braelon Allen instead of Erick All.

I like All when he is healthy, but he hasn't been healthy often. Braelon Allen would of instantly made us more physical.

I don't like being a finesse Offense.

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-09-2024, 04:01 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Which is why I was wanting us to Draft a RB like Braelon Allen instead of Erick All.

I like All when he is healthy, but he hasn't been healthy often. Braelon Allen would of instantly made us more physical.

I don't like being a finesse Offense.

I initially wanted B. Corum. But after I started looking into B. Allen a bit more I was pretty high on him. I too sure wish we'd have taken him in the 4th. 

A solid run game will put the brakes on the pass rush quick.

[Housh]

FWIW i saw a Titans Podcast i think and they graded Moss as the best pass pro back in the league

[BoomerFan]

(07-09-2024, 07:38 PM)Housh Wrote: FWIW i saw a Titans Podcast i think and they graded Moss as the best pass pro back in the league

I really am excited about that. 

It isn't just sacks. Hurries and the amount of time you have in the pocket greatly impacts what sort of plays you can call. I know everyone knows this but it is the part of this year I'm most excited for.