Who is RB 1 ?

[*bengalfan74*]

https://sports.yahoo.com/bengals-breakout-candidate-chase-brown-234245124.html

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/is-chase-brown-or-zack-moss-the-fantasy-football-rb1-for-the-bengals/ar-BB1qU8FL?ocid=BingNewsSerp

There's been several reports that Chase Brown has been tearing it up in camp. I probably like many others figured they picked up Zack Moss to basically step in as RB 1 and hopefully C. Brown could work his way more into more snaps as season wore on. But now, I don't know ? He might get the nod as starter ?

It wouldn't surprise me if C. Evans is cut and we roll with Brown, Moss, and Williams with one or both of the rookies on PS.

[*ochocincos*]

(07-31-2024, 09:34 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: https://sports.yahoo.com/bengals-breakout-candidate-chase-brown-234245124.html

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/is-chase-brown-or-zack-moss-the-fantasy-football-rb1-for-the-bengals/ar-BB1qU8FL?ocid=BingNewsSerp

There's been several reports that Chase Brown has been tearing it up in camp. I probably like many others figured they picked up Zack Moss to basically step in as RB 1 and hopefully C. Brown could work his way more into more snaps as season wore on. But now, I don't know ? He might get the nod as starter ?

It wouldn't surprise me if C. Evans is cut and we roll with Brown, Moss, and Williams with one or both of the rookies on PS.

I see it like the year the Bengals had BJGE and Bernard in 2013.

BJGE got more carries, but Bernard got more receptions to end up with about the same touches.
BJGE was technically the starter, but Bernard ended up with more yards.

Now with Moss, he can actually catch, but he's not as fast as Brown.
I think we'll see Moss with ~60% of the touches with Brown about 30-40%.

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-31-2024, 10:11 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I see it like the year the Bengals had BJGE and Bernard in 2013.

BJGE got more carries, but Bernard got more receptions to end up with about the same touches.
BJGE was technically the starter, but Bernard ended up with more yards.

Now with Moss, he can actually catch, but he's not as fast as Brown.
I think we'll see Moss with ~60% of the touches with Brown about 30-40%.

Probably

I don't know why? I just have the feeling Brown is gonna tear it up this season  - breakout. Especially like you say as a receiver. 

[masonbengals fan]

Looking forward to finding out.

[Sled21]

I have to think they use Brown a lot. Isn't he the 2nd fastest player in the NFL? He should be devastating catching the ball out of the backfield.

[*jason*]

I think Chase Brown is gonna be the guy with Moss coming in on 3rd down for pass protection.

[Soonerpeace]

I think it’s meaningless until the pads come on. It’s more about how Brown does pass blocking and tough runs. That starts with contact. I can promise you I was told everything I mean everything the offense and personnel starts with protecting Joe. That comes first and the main reason Mixon is gone. He was limiting

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-31-2024, 10:58 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I think it’s meaningless until the pads come on. It’s more about how Brown does pass blocking and tough runs. That starts with contact. I can promise you I was told everything I mean everything the offense and personnel starts with protecting Joe. That comes first and the main reason Mixon is gone. He was limiting

Oh I agree keeping Joe upright is priority #1 and that may be C. Browns weakness. Hopefully they can coach him up and he gets it as well.

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-31-2024, 10:41 AM)jason Wrote: I think Chase Brown is gonna be the guy with Moss coming in on 3rd down for pass protection.

I wouldn't doubt it. 

[SunsetBengal]

(07-31-2024, 10:41 AM)jason Wrote: I think Chase Brown is gonna be the guy with Moss coming in on 3rd down for pass protection.

I agree with this. I predict that they will be used similarly to how they used Mixon-Perine.

[*ochocincos*]

(07-31-2024, 10:30 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Probably

I don't know why? I just have the feeling Brown is gonna tear it up this season  - breakout. Especially like you say as a receiver. 

Zack Moss possesses BJGE-esque speed as well btw. 4.65 40 with a 1.67 10-yard split. Both ranked very poor.
It's a big reason he's not a dynamic threat.


That's not to say he's bad, he's just got a limited ceiling like some other guys (Perine, BJGE) we've seen in the past.

Brown has the potential to really explode, which could result in him being a perennial 1000+ yard guy if he can get enough touches and put it together.

Zack Moss felt like a stopgap insurance policy in case Brown ends up taking a year (or more) to develop.
He only signed a 2-year, $8 mill deal with an opportunity to free up over $3 mill next year if Brown blossoms this year (or they draft a RB early next year).

[Soonerpeace]

(07-31-2024, 10:41 AM)jason Wrote: I think Chase Brown is gonna be the guy with Moss coming in on 3rd down for pass protection.

(07-31-2024, 11:49 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I agree with this. I predict that they will be used similarly to how they used Mixon-Perine.

The Bengals want to be less predictable. Going back to the Mixon/Perine formula they want to avoid. So we will see. Of course want and have to aren’t the same.

[*ochocincos*]

(07-31-2024, 10:41 AM)jason Wrote: I think Chase Brown is gonna be the guy with Moss coming in on 3rd down for pass protection.

FWIW, here were the number of pass blocking snaps and PFF rating for each player last year:

Moss - 70 pass blocks, 60.4 rating - actually solid
Brown - 8 pass blocks, 26.7 rating - he only blocked in 6 games, 4 of which had just 1 block and were rated good 69+. the other 2 games he blocked 4 times and had abysmal ratings on those blocks, which is why the 26.7 cumulative rating came about. Not really enough pass blocks to formulate a good feel of blocking ability

So yea, I think Moss will be the trusted guy in pass protection unless/until Brown can prove he's reliable and good in that aspect of his game.
But once he can do that part, he can be a 3-down RB.

Brown put up 335 yards from scrimmage on just 58 touches last year.
Many RBs even splitting time are getting around 4x that. (BJGE and Bernard both had ~225 in 2013).
So if Brown quadruples his touches, he could be on pace potentially for around 1200 yards from scrimmage.
Bell cows like Mixon in previous years typically get 300+.

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-31-2024, 12:13 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The Bengals want to be less predictable. Going back to the Mixon/Perine formula they want to avoid. So we will see. Of course want and have to aren’t the same.

I get that and I believe that. Many of us believe we've been guilty of being too predictable in the past. And I think it's somewhat true.

But I also believe some of that is just because we watch every snap, pretty much and we gain insight into what they're likely to do by default. And I also think the limitations of the line in past seasons hasn't allowed us to run the whole playbook.

I believe they will run a good bit of under center stuff this year and I'm hoping a solid running game along with some RB wheel routes and screens will take away some of that predictability. And this is why I think Brown will be getting a good bit of snaps and touches.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(07-31-2024, 12:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: So if Brown quadruples his touches, he could be on pace potentially for around 1200 yards from scrimmage.

Never really works like that, Ocho. 

Same way when BJ Hill was re-signed to be the starter in 2022 folks said he'd play almost double the snaps, so with his stats almost doubled he would be more productive than Ogunjobi was in 2021. Or how Dunlap's second highest sack total in a season is still his part-time rookie season despite barely playing any snaps. Or how Mixon had 4 years with more snaps than his best year (2018) yet it was his 2nd most yards he ever got, with the only season beating it being just 55 more scrimmage yards in 102 snaps/54 touches more. Tee Higgins' highest yardage season is his second least number of snaps played season.

Chase Brown got a carry or target on 59 of his 93 snaps, or 63.4%. That is a percentage that simply won't be possible if you quadruple the snap count. For comparison, Mixon last year was at 42.7% of his snaps having him get a carry or target and Giovani Bernard's rookie year was 39.3%. If you play more, you have to do things other than touching the ball more as well.

[*ochocincos*]

(07-31-2024, 01:40 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Never really works like that, Ocho. 

Same way when BJ Hill was re-signed to be the starter in 2022 folks said he'd play almost double the snaps, so with his stats almost doubled he would be more productive than Ogunjobi was in 2021. Or how Dunlap's second highest sack total in a season is still his part-time rookie season despite barely playing any snaps. Or how Mixon had 4 years with more snaps than his best year (2018) yet it was his 2nd most yards he ever got, with the only season beating it being just 55 more scrimmage yards in 102 snaps/54 touches more. Tee Higgins' highest yardage season is his second least number of snaps played season.

It doesn't always, but it has happened.

Chris Johnson is who immediately came to mind for me.
In 2008, he shared touches with LenDale White.

He amassed 1488 yards from scrimmage on 294 touches.
Everyone thought, "Man, if LenDale White wasn't taking touches, CJ would be a monster!"
Sure enough, in 2009, CJ because CJ2K with 2509 yards from scrimmage on 409 touches.
He actually INCREASED yards per touch once he increased his touches, not dropped. 5.1 YPT in 2008 to 6.1 YPT in 2009.

I know these examples are few, but you said "never," which is actually not never, just not common

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-31-2024, 09:34 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: https://sports.yahoo.com/bengals-breakout-candidate-chase-brown-234245124.html

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/is-chase-brown-or-zack-moss-the-fantasy-football-rb1-for-the-bengals/ar-BB1qU8FL?ocid=BingNewsSerp

There's been several reports that Chase Brown has been tearing it up in camp. I probably like many others figured they picked up Zack Moss to basically step in as RB 1 and hopefully C. Brown could work his way more into more snaps as season wore on. But now, I don't know ? He might get the nod as starter ?

It wouldn't surprise me if C. Evans is cut and we roll with Brown, Moss, and Williams with one or both of the rookies on PS.

Honestly I thought the same and Zac and Joe have been saying Moss has looked great too. But it might be in our best interest to use these
RB's where they are the most dangerous, Chase Brown on early downs and Moss on 3rd downs to pass block. Chase Brown might get more 
chances to break a big run with his speed if he gets used early instead of as just a backup to Moss.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(07-31-2024, 01:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I know these examples are few, but you said "never," which is actually not never, just not common

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-31-2024, 01:53 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:

This brings me back lol

I forgot the name of this movie though, Freaky Freddy or something like that. I just remember the babe Pheobe Cates was in it...

[Essex Johnson]

(07-31-2024, 10:11 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I see it like the year the Bengals had BJGE and Bernard in 2013.

BJGE got more carries, but Bernard got more receptions to end up with about the same touches.
BJGE was technically the starter, but Bernard ended up with more yards.

Now with Moss, he can actually catch, but he's not as fast as Brown.
I think we'll see Moss with ~60% of the touches with Brown about 30-40%.

Moss is not know as a pass catcher, that is area where I think Brown will get more reps