Why is our line great pass blockers but poor run blockers

[Sled21]

(09-11-2024, 10:36 AM)higgy100 Wrote: Can't remember if we even saw it last year when he was running. Just not sure they have either the scheme or the OL to be able to get outside and get out in front and get to the second level. Still need guys to block the edge.

Oh, we saw it once. He made the Colts look like they were running with concrete in their shoes..... I'd have to say this is the most underutilized play in our playbook. He hit 22 mph on that run

[Bengalfan4life27c]

It's 3rd and 3 and their is nothing you can do to stop it. That's what the elite teams have that we don't. We used to have it but lost it I don't know if we can get it back.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-09-2024, 01:17 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Great pass blockers? Are you serious? lmfao

theyre probably DECENT at best at pass protection.

This.

Bengals allowed 3 sacks.
If that because the average per game, that would be 51 in the season.
Looking at sacks allowed last year, 51 would have been 7th worst in the league.
FWIW, Bengals allowed 50 last year, tied for 7th worst.

Bengals allowed 152 total pressures last year (11th worst), which was 21.9% of dropbacks (14th worst).
This past game, while they allowed 3 sacks, Pro Football Reference did not tag with the Bengals with a single other hit or hurry outside of those 3 sacks. That's tied for 15th best in the league. So still right around middle of the pack like last year in regard to pressures.

If anything their running game might be improved this season whereas the pass blocking is staying about the same or maybe slightly improved.

[Joelist]

The pass blocking was excellent. Two sacks happened because of Burrow - he fumbled the snap on one and on the other he ran away from a big pocket right into the pressure.

The run blocking was also good - we just abandoned the run for no reason.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-11-2024, 03:51 PM)Joelist Wrote: The pass blocking was excellent. Two sacks happened because of Burrow - he fumbled the snap on one and on the other he ran away from a big pocket right into the pressure.

The run blocking was also good - we just abandoned the run for no reason.

Many of Burrow's sacks happen because of Burrow.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-11-2024, 03:21 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: It's 3rd and 3 and their is nothing you can do to stop it. That's what the elite teams have that we don't. We used to have it but lost it I don't know if we can get it back.

I feel like the last time the Bengals had that, Cedric Benson was the RB.
Maybe even further back than that though?

Bengals would need a completely different offensive philosophy to turn into a brute force running team.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(09-11-2024, 04:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I feel like the last time the Bengals had that, Cedric Benson was the RB.
Maybe even further back than that though?

Bengals would need a completely different offensive philosophy to turn into a brute force running team.

our SB and AFC championship seasons we had that against most teams especially AFC championship season when the line wasn't total trash. we had glimpses in Texans and 49er games last season before Burrow got hurt.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-11-2024, 05:00 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: our SB and AFC championship seasons we had that against most teams especially AFC championship season when the line wasn't total trash. we had glimpses in Texans and 49er games last season before Burrow got hurt.

What?

From what I remember, this was a big gripe during those seasons that the Bengals couldn't consistently get a few yards when it really mattered.
Especially in the Super Bowl.
Bengals couldn't guarantee getting 3rd & short even with big Perine back there.

[Sled21]

(09-11-2024, 04:37 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Many of Burrow's sacks happen because of Burrow.

Exactly! If you want a QB that extends plays and doesn't throw it away early, you are going to have more sacks. And like Burrow said, if it's 3rd down, who cares unless it takes you out of field goal range.

[Housh]

(09-11-2024, 03:51 PM)Joelist Wrote: The pass blocking was excellent. Two sacks happened because of Burrow - he fumbled the snap on one and on the other he ran away from a big pocket right into the pressure.

The run blocking was also good - we just abandoned the run for no reason.

I did a thread in 2021 where i looked at every sack in the playoffs and literally 90% of them were Burrows fault. There weren’t many plays where a defender was in his ass right after snap like in the regular season. His playoff sacks were literally mostly from him ignoring his checkdown to make a bigger play and not being able to make that play.

That was at a time when Burrows criticism was not taking the checkdown under pressure, it’s crazy to see that now his criticism is taking the checkdown too damn much

[Housh]

(09-11-2024, 05:43 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Exactly! If you want a QB that extends plays and doesn't throw it away early, you are going to have more sacks. And like Burrow said, if it's 3rd down, who cares unless it takes you out of field goal range.

And Burros is on video saying this just in case anyone didn’t know this came from Burrow himself.


To me he’s right but sometimes you gotta respect momentum and taking a sack that losses 12 yards while down 7 points means you added another 4 downs your defense has to guard. Cool if you are the 2023’ Browns and your defense is a beast but when your defense is below average to ass you’ve gotta protect them a bit by getting every yard for the punt you possibly can

Burrows mindset is a more analytical, Madden type mindset that doesn’t work in real life

[*bfine32*]

(09-11-2024, 10:19 PM)Housh Wrote: I did a thread in 2021 where i looked at every sack in the playoffs and literally 90% of them were Burrows fault. There weren’t many plays where a defender was in his ass right after snap like in the regular season. His playoff sacks were literally mostly from him ignoring his checkdown to make a bigger play and not being able to make that play.

That was at a time when Burrows criticism was not taking the checkdown under pressure, it’s crazy to see that now his criticism is taking the checkdown too damn much

See, but the complaint this last game was he took the checkdown when NOT under pressure. 

[higgy100]

(09-11-2024, 10:27 PM)Housh Wrote: And Burros is on video saying this just in case anyone didn’t know this came from Burrow himself.


To me he’s right but sometimes you gotta respect momentum and taking a sack that losses 12 yards while down 7 points means you added another 4 downs your defense has to guard. Cool if you are the 2023’ Browns and your defense is a beast but when your defense is below average to ass you’ve gotta protect them a bit by getting every yard for the punt you possibly can

Burrows mindset is a more analytical, Madden type mindset that doesn’t work in real life

Burrows like a running QB that gets sacked alot because they "run into" sacks by being too elusive and not getting rid of the ball versus the sacker actually getting to him except Burrow is not the elusive QB but simply hangs onto the ball far too long and doesn't step up into the pocket enough. What I mean is alot times it's not a DE/LB/DT doing a great job getting to Burrow.

He's actually done a really nice job the past 1-2 years taking off for nice runs but he's got to understand that running for 7-8 yards when it's there is sometimes better than completing a 12-15 yard pass because it gives the defenders something else to think about.

[SunsetBengal]

Nice article detailing how a change in his stance at the line has helped OBJr. to cover more ground quicker with his kick slide, thus improving hiss pass blocking ability.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bengals-lt-orlando-brown-jrs-change-in-technique-has-already-improved-joe-burrows-pass-protection/ar-AA1qt5aS?ocid=BingNewsSerp

Quote:Last Sunday was a rarity for the Cincinnati Bengals. When a bad day for the offense happens, the center of the problem has typically been the offensive line. That wasn't the case against the New England Patriots.  

Compositive pass blocking scores, opposing pressure rate, whatever metric you look at tells the same story.

Cincinnati protected quarterback Joe Burrow well, and it started with left tackle Orlando Brown Jr.

And for Brown, it all started with his stance.

Orlando Brown Jr. changed up his technique
Brown put together one of his best games since joining the Bengals last year. Pro Football Focus graded him at 80.1 in pass blocking and charged him with just one hurry allowed on 35 pass blocking reps. He did this despite noticeably changing his stance from last year.

As seen above, Brown's hands are still starting on his knees, but his left knee is bent inwards closer to his post foot. This was consistent all throughout the afternoon, and the results showed Brown to be in much more control over his pass sets.

What I noticed in the tape is he was able to create more space in his vertical sets. which has an o-lineman kick-sliding in what's almost a straight line backwards. His timing out of his stance remains the same as it once was, but he's able to cover more ground in his first two kick slides as a result.

This was evident when comparing a similar rep from Week 8 of last season against the San Francisco 49ers. I went a broke down the plays side-by-side below:

How this change helps Brown and the Bengals
With the ability to create space in a more efficient manner, Brown's lack of elite quickness for a tackle can be better negated. This can give him a literal edge against the caliber of pass-rushers that have given him fits in the past, specifically those who can win with speed around the edge.

In short, Brown can become a more reliable pass protector on a week-to-week basis. The Bengals don't have to scheme too specifically to help him against the better opponents they'll face throughout the season.

This is not to say he'll be perfect against the Myles Garretts of the league, but better consistency and control from the left tackle is a huge boost to any offensive line, and therefore, the quarterback.

Burrow notably didn't play well Sunday, but it had little to do with how his protection turned out to be. He noted this week that he had struggles with his footwork in the pocket. Luckily, he knows the steps to remedy that.

"I thought I had some happy feet in the pocket on Sunday," Burrow said Wednesday. "So slowing everything down, let my mind work and let my fundamentals take care of the rest."

Once it clicks again for Burrow, he should be operating with a clean left side of the pocket for many weeks to come if Brown continues this level of play with his new stance.

[Yogo]

(09-10-2024, 09:47 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This is the key to unlocking the running game.

The Bengals run game was successful on 6/7 plays (85.7%) when lining up in 12 personnel with Erick All and Drew Sample including their only touchdown. This is their best personnel grouping and they should embrace it. pic.twitter.com/bPksQ8nygF

— mike (@bengals_sans) September 9, 2024

If that's the case, we should try get Bill O Brien as OC and copy the Patriots' Gronk Hernandez years.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-12-2024, 04:31 PM)Yogo Wrote: If that's the case, we should try get Bill O Brien as OC and copy the Patriots' Gronk Hernandez years.

The Bengals could amass an army of the greatest offensive minds in the game and it still wouldn't matter unless Zac Taylor agreed to give up calling plays.

[007BengalsFan]

(09-11-2024, 04:37 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Many of Burrow's sacks happen because of Burrow.

If Burrow gets rid of the ball too quick people blame him.  If he holds on to the ball longer to make a play and gets sacks, people will say he holds on to the ball too long.  He cant win

[007BengalsFan]

(09-12-2024, 04:48 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The Bengals could amass an army of the greatest offensive minds in the game and it still wouldn't matter unless Zac Taylor agreed to give up calling plays.

All the talk before the season about how we are changing up the offense, making it more dynamic, it's still the same predictable Zac Taylor calling plays offense.  Nothing has changed.