The Force Awakens spoiler thread

[Arturo Bandini]

He spent one hour of training lol. Time for the falcon to get to Alderaan.

[Arturo Bandini]

(01-08-2016, 06:39 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: See, that is the thing, Anakin was using the force untrained, he just didn't know it. He had no idea what that was all about. But without his force abilities he would never had made it as a pod racer.

He also downed a federation starship with R2, he was barely 8 years old.

[Sovereign Nation]

(01-08-2016, 07:50 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: He spent one hour of training lol. Time for the falcon to get to Alderaan.

Wow.  So you think traveling from planet to planet only takes 1 hour?

It can take more than an a hour to get from state to state by plane.  Yet, you think it takes 1 hour to travel from one planet to another. 

[Arturo Bandini]

(01-08-2016, 08:16 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Wow.  So you think traveling from planet to planet only takes 1 hour?

It can take more than an a hour to get from state to state by plane.  Yet, you think it takes 1 hour to travel from one planet to another. 

Light speed buddy. 

https://www.quora.com/How-long-did-it-take-for-the-Millenium-Falcon-to-fly-to-Alderaan-from-Tatooine

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/How-long-to-Alderaan-from-Tatooine/id/11484

http://www.tor.com/2014/12/08/star-wars-how-fast-is-the-millennium-falcon/

[BmorePat87]

(01-08-2016, 06:44 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I get that, but no one cared. Rey does a few small things and everyone loses their shit over it.
What did she do that was so amazing a feat? 
Beat up a badly wounded, untrained, emotionally unstable guy? 
Use a mind trick on the worst James Bond since George Lazenby?

She really didn't do much that Luke or Anakin didn't do with minimal training...plus you have to factor in how Lucas and others have essentially retconned the Force and how it's used and what it is...

Basically this. Luke is pretty unaware of the force. He has a lot of serious doubts about it too, which is part of why Yoda was hesitant to train him. Rey, on the other hand, knew of stories and was more open to the impossible being possible. She also is naturally strong in the force, and it is hinted at that she comes from an important force user lineage. 

Luke used the force to guide two proton torpedoes into a hole 2 meters wide. Anakin destroyed a whole command ship in a single star fighter. 

Ren is 29 years and hasn't been fully trained yet. In Episode IV, Darth Vader was a 40 year old Sith Master who was known to have the most raw force power when he was only 9. Obviously Luke can't take on Vader, but it's not crazy to suggest that Rey can hold her own against Ren when he is attempting to turn her to the dark side and is severely wounded. 

[Belsnickel]

(01-08-2016, 09:41 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Light speed buddy. 

https://www.quora.com/How-long-did-it-take-for-the-Millenium-Falcon-to-fly-to-Alderaan-from-Tatooine

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/How-long-to-Alderaan-from-Tatooine/id/11484

http://www.tor.com/2014/12/08/star-wars-how-fast-is-the-millennium-falcon/

Interesting tidbit, in the Star Wars RPG (the third version) the warp drive on the Falcon was either half or three-quarter light speed, so even faster than light. Meaning twice, or 1.5 times the speed of light.

Edit: I was wrong here, about what the .5 meant. It is just based on the class of the hyperdrives since all hyperdrives can allow FTL travel. The .5 just means it can make a journey in half the base speed of the class system.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(01-08-2016, 07:36 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: This is so wrong.

Luke spent time with Obi Wan, he was getting some instruction.  Incomplete, but enough to have a bit of an understanding on the way it works. 

Luke was also hesitant in his beliefs. It took Obi Wan dying before he truly trusted the force. Spending a few hours with the training ball isn't exactly "well versed"

Do you really think that Luke could beat Vader in ANH? or even in ESB (especially the beginning before going to Dagobah)?

No? Who the hell said he could? Or are you still being weird and saying Ren = Vader? Which is a very ignorant statement.

Luke had to go through a crash beginners course in the 1st movie, and Obi Wan reaching beyond death, in order to "Use the force to destroy the first Death Star".  Then in the 2nd movie he had to go through an extensive training period before his confrontation with Vader.  Even then he was outmatched and beaten.

So, Luke gets the benefit of a crash course (if that) and it's okay...but Rey can't just figure it out? Uh...okay...

In the 3rd movie, it was established that he spent even more time training under Yoda in order to be as proficient as he was.  He was able to defeat Vader and through his blood ties with him and the call of the light side was ultimately able to defeat Palpatine.

Actually, Luke was getting his ass smoked by Palpatine and Vader beat him.

In the prequels, Anakin was able to fly in the pod races, but he wasn't any good as he always lost.  Sure he was calling up the instinctive side of the force to help him fly, but the ability to build his pod racer came more from his love of pod racing and not from any Force using abilities.  It took him training under Obi Wan to become competent in it's use, and even then he was still prone to making mistakes.

BTW... I like so many people, hated the prequels, so to say that "no one had a problem with the plot holes in those" is also wrong.  I didn't like them, much for the same reason I don't like this new movie.  I will go see the next one, but I am not buying into the hype.

The more I read this, the less I think you understood the new movie than you think you do. 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(01-08-2016, 10:10 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Basically this. Luke is pretty unaware of the force. He has a lot of serious doubts about it too, which is part of why Yoda was hesitant to train him. Rey, on the other hand, knew of stories and was more open to the impossible being possible. She also is naturally strong in the force, and it is hinted at that she comes from an important force user lineage. 

Luke used the force to guide two proton torpedoes into a hole 2 meters wide. Anakin destroyed a whole command ship in a single star fighter. 

Ren is 29 years and hasn't been fully trained yet. In Episode IV, Darth Vader was a 40 year old Sith Master who was known to have the most raw force power when he was only 9. Obviously Luke can't take on Vader, but it's not crazy to suggest that Rey can hold her own against Ren when he is attempting to turn her to the dark side and is severely wounded. 

It seems a running issue is that people still can't comprehend that Kylo is nowhere near Vader levels. He's much more like Luke was in ESB. 
He was told to capture not kill her, he just took a shot from Chewie to the gut, killed his own dad and fought Finn...safe to say he might not be at his peak. 

[Sovereign Nation]

(01-08-2016, 09:41 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Light speed buddy. 

https://www.quora.com/How-long-did-it-take-for-the-Millenium-Falcon-to-fly-to-Alderaan-from-Tatooine

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/How-long-to-Alderaan-from-Tatooine/id/11484

http://www.tor.com/2014/12/08/star-wars-how-fast-is-the-millennium-falcon/

You are aware that light speed still takes time right?  We are also talking about going from 1 galaxy to the next.  A galaxy is a huge.  Our own galaxy is 100,000 light years in diameter.  It takes about 4 hours for our Sun to reach Pluto.  

So the Falcon even going .5 above light speed (which is a physics impossibility, however suspension of belief) would still have to go from 1 galaxy to the next and that would take more than 1 hour.

I would suspend belief and say that it took 1 week as the shortest amount of time, and that would be enough time to get a rudimentary grasp on the basics of being a Jedi.  

[Sovereign Nation]

(01-08-2016, 11:04 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: It seems a running issue is that people still can't comprehend that Kylo is nowhere near Vader levels. He's much more like Luke was in ESB. 
He was told to capture not kill her, he just took a shot from Chewie to the gut, killed his own dad and fought Finn...safe to say he might not be at his peak. 

It seems the issue is people like you thinking that just because Kylo isn't near Vader's level means that an UNTRAINED force user was still able to defeat him.

No he didn't want to kill her, but that doesn't mean he couldn't subdue her.  I mean, he just killed Finn (oh wait, Lightsabers couldn't slice Finn in half in these new movies, which is issue with the movie), he just defeated Finn, so subduing another novice force user shouldn't be that difficult.

Mary Sue, Rey, is a boring character with the way they made her too good.  I mean, she is going to be taking out Death Stars with just her pinky in the next movies.

Question for you.  If Ren is more like Luke was in ESB and not near Vader's level,  then what comparison do you give Rey?  If you say she is like Luke in ANH, then ask yourself, could Luke in ESB defeat the Luke in ANH?  

[Sovereign Nation]

(01-08-2016, 11:02 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: The more I read this, the less I think you understood the new movie than you think you do. 

I obviously understand the new movie more than you.  You do see the propaganda in the movie?  How they even hit you over the head with them?

You keep going on about people thinking Ren = Vader.  I don't think I have EVER seen a person make that correlation except for people clearly reaching for any excuse to justify one of the most boring characters in the movies.

Ren is not Vader, he even doubts that he would be anywhere near as good as Vader was.  

If Ren is not Vader and is more closely to Luke in ESB, then who is Rey?

I mean Luke will try to train Rey, only for her to go... "No thanks, I got this" and then stomp Snoke while everyone adores her perfection.

I wouldn't even be surprised if the big twist is for Rey to turn to the dark side at the end of this trilogy, to set up another trilogy in which her midochlorian concepted child has to try and turn her to the light side again.

[Arturo Bandini]

(01-09-2016, 06:03 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: You are aware that light speed still takes time right?  We are also talking about going from 1 galaxy to the next.  A galaxy is a huge.  Our own galaxy is 100,000 light years in diameter.  It takes about 4 hours for our Sun to reach Pluto.  

So the Falcon even going .5 above light speed (which is a physics impossibility, however suspension of belief) would still have to go from 1 galaxy to the next and that would take more than 1 hour.

I would suspend belief and say that it took 1 week as the shortest amount of time, and that would be enough time to get a rudimentary grasp on the basics of being a Jedi.  

He could have spent 1 month in the Falcon, it won't explain why he's the last one to stand with his X Wing while he never have flied before nor why Anakin took down a spaceship at 9 years old.

The Force works in mysterious ways.

[Sovereign Nation]

(01-09-2016, 07:32 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: He could have spent 1 month in the Falcon, it won't explain why he's the last one to stand with his X Wing while he never have flied before nor why Anakin took down a spaceship at 9 years old.

The Force works in mysterious ways.

Force ex machina.  Cinema Sins will have a field day.

As to flying space craft.  I have never said anything about the ability to fly a space craft.  Rey knowing how to fly the Falcon isn't really that big of a surprise or mystery.  I would assume that people on remote planets like Tatooine and Jaku (sp) would learn how to fly quite a few different crafts and that 1 craft wouldn't be all that much different than any other craft.  Where Finn's inability to fly a spacecraft comes from being a part of a government that has things like that assigned to certain people so he wouldn't be piloting any type of vehicle.  

You keep bringing up the prequels.  Everyone that I know has hated the prequels and one of the reasons was how unbelievable a lot of the scenes were, take for instance Anakin flying a spacecraft when the only thing he had piloted before was a pod racer, unless of course the controls aren't all that different from craft to craft and his mechanical knowledge would give him a bit of an advantage to quickly figuring out how to pilot it.  Funny how something that was considered silly in one movie is completely ignored in this one.

I am not going to continue with this though.  Like I said, I am part of the group of people that wasn't impressed with the movie and I know that it's success is more due to nostalgia, hype and people getting caught up in "mysteries" and trying to figure out the twist that everyone knows will happen, than actually being a good movie.

If they really want to surprise everyone, then Rey won't be related to anyone, she won't be Anakin reincarnate, she will be just an ordinary girl that just happens to be a force user.  Snoke will just be another villain and have no relationship to previous villains and Ren will not face any retribution for killing Han.  As boring as that sounds, it, to me is more interesting than what the film makers have put forth so far.

[BmorePat87]

All you need to do is watch Episode III to see how hyperspace travel is basically nothing. Anakin goes from the core (Coruscant) to the outer rim (Mustafar) in no time. Padme leaves and meets him shortly after. If you have a hyperspace route and you're in a good ship, it's an easy trip.

[Belsnickel]

(01-09-2016, 08:55 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: All you need to do is watch Episode III to see how hyperspace travel is basically nothing. Anakin goes from the core (Coruscant) to the outer rim (Mustafar) in no time. Padme leaves and meets him shortly after. If you have a hyperspace route and you're in a good ship, it's an easy trip.

That is another thing, too, hyperdrive is not just light speed. It is a combination of light speed and the entrance of hyperspace. This allows ships to travel much faster than light. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperdrive/Legends

I don't think most people understand that about the technology of the Star Wars universe.

[Arturo Bandini]

BTW, it's fantasy. When I watch Lord of the Rings, I know that dragons, orcs and wizards don't exist. It's a movie not a documentary.

You've lost your inner child and it's sad.

[Belsnickel]

(01-09-2016, 09:39 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: BTW, it's fantasy. When I watch Lord of the Rings, I know that dragons, orcs and wizards don't exist. It's a movie not a documentary.

You've lost your inner child and it's sad.

It is funny, I have always thought of Star Wars as more fantasy than sci-fi, even though it is lasers and not swords. The Force and the premise of this being a long time ago somewhere else probably has to do with that. And I guess it is still swords because of the lightsabers.

[Sovereign Nation]

(01-09-2016, 09:39 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: BTW, it's fantasy. When I watch Lord of the Rings, I know that dragons, orcs and wizards don't exist. It's a movie not a documentary.

You've lost your inner child and it's sad.

Actually, my inner child loves damsels in distress and being saved by the good virtuous hero, that while flawed, has good intentions.

Guess that is why I loved the original trilogy so much.  You had the damsel needing to be saved, and not only 1 hero, but 2. 

As far as that "damsel" goes.  She was also a complete bad ass.  Mouthing off to Vader and Moff Tarkin.  Taking the blaster away and shooting to assist with her rescue.  Sure she kissed her brother for luck, but hey it added a bit of awkward humor, since at the time she didn't know he was her brother. 

She was also the best shooter in the whole series.  She never missed a single shot.  Then putting herself at risk and danger to save the man she loved, put her at the top of heroines in movies.  She not only shown her physical sexiness, but her inner sexiness by vulnerability and her strength.

Thus far, I don't see the need of any of the characters in this new movie.  Since Rey doesn't need to be saved, is happier alone, and since the force works for her anyway, then no training needed.

To me the best part of this movie.  Seeing the trailer for World of Warcraft.  Now that looks epic.

[Sovereign Nation]

(01-09-2016, 09:29 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: That is another thing, too, hyperdrive is not just light speed. It is a combination of light speed and the entrance of hyperspace. This allows ships to travel much faster than light. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperdrive/Legends

I don't think most people understand that about the technology of the Star Wars universe.

No, it isn't that we don't understand it.

Think about this...

The OT came out and there was no talk about how long the trip would take.  So it was assumed that Obi Wan spent the time he was traveling to Alderaan training Luke and giving him a crash course in the ways of the force.  Luke was given an overview of how it works and while incomplete, which with the suspension of belief, was enough to plausibly explain him forgoing the screens of his ship and trusting his instincts, albeit with a little encouragement from beyond the grave Obi Wan, and making what would be considered an impossible shot.

Now with Rey, she has no such time with a force user, and she is already skilled enough to perform all of these feats.  When someone like me points this out, I am met with the stupid response "you didn't have a problem with Luke not being trained".  So now I have to explain why that argument isn't valid, since I was already under the premise that Luke had about 1 week (at least) on the Falcon getting some instruction.

The prequels came after the fact.  The prequels are already established as being bad and one of the things that made them so bad was the outrageousness of the technology used.  I mean, Anakin built C3PO and R2 was present through to whole thing, how come they didn't know who Leia was, how come they didn't recognize the name Skywalker and maybe tell Luke that Vader is his father.  Then add to the extra quick space travel and you now have a recipe for a flop.  The suspension of belief wasn't enough to make the movie work.

[Arturo Bandini]

You have the right to like what you want but you're a bit overreacting. Of course, it needs new people, you won't get a new trilogy with 70 old years crew. This is common sense.

And as long as we don't know where the story is going, it's a bit early to make premptory statements.