Fire Zac Taylor right now..

[Brownshoe]

(10-07-2024, 04:04 PM)PhilHos Wrote:

Okay, which of the teams that Burrow played should we take away because they weren't impressive. I just want to make it fair.

Bills and 49ers were very impressive.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-07-2024, 03:49 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Maybe the group consultation for offensive play calling is not working.  Maybe leave it up to the OC.

Hard for me to complain with the numbers this offense is putting up. Maybe someone else should call the defense.

[Brownshoe]

My point is that Taylor gets carried by his players. He isn't a good coach and there's not much you can show that says he's a good coach. He has insane talent that every single team in the league wishes they had on offense. He hasn't shown that he's been impressive at any area. He constantly gets out coached.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-07-2024, 04:07 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Bills and 49ers were very impressive.

Okay, so Burrow had only 2 impressive wins. I would argue that's worse than Browning because Browning only started 7 games compared to the 55+ games Burrow started.

You know what? I'm just going to stick to # of wins and win percentage and other stats and not concern myself with quality of opponent and downplay the career of what I consider to be the 2nd best active QB in the NFL just so I can make negative claims about our HC. 

[*PhilHos*]

(10-07-2024, 04:10 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: My point is that Taylor gets carried by his players. He isn't a good coach and there's not much you can show that says he's a good coach. He has insane talent that every single team in the league wishes they had on offense. He hasn't shown that he's been impressive at any area. He constantly gets out coached.

Tell me you don't know what coaches do for a team without telling me you don't know what coaches do for a team. 

Is it the players that put the team together? Is it the players that created the playbook in the offseason? Is it the players that create the gameplan each week? Is it the players that call the plays? Is it the players that decide when to go for it on 4th down or to go for the 2 point conversion? Is it the players that keep the team focused during adversity (ok, maybe this one they do play a part)? 

I could go on but this notion that a bad coach can be a coach of a winning team because of the players is just preposterous, IMO. Yes, Burrow and Jamar certainly make Zac's job easier and maybe even make him look better than he actually is, but to claim that the coach is being carried by the players just shows a fundamental lack of football knowledge. 

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-07-2024, 04:08 PM)Wyche Wrote: Hard for me to complain with the numbers this offense is putting up. Maybe someone else should call the defense.

Correct that.  Maybe Defense needs group consultation for play calling...  

[*PhilHos*]

(10-07-2024, 04:22 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Correct that.  Maybe Defense needs group consultation for play calling...  

At this point, I'd be willing to try anything.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Another Damning Zac Taylor stat is Burrow has fewer 4thqtr comebacks and game winning drives than Jon Kitna and Jeff Blake

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-07-2024, 04:22 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Correct that.  Maybe Defense needs group consultation for play calling...  

 Let's try *something* 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-07-2024, 04:25 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Another Damning Zac Taylor stat is Burrow has fewer 4thqtr comebacks and game winning drives than Jon Kitna and Jeff Blake

See, this is what I don't understand.....if Dalton didn't come back in the 4th quarter it was his fault. If Joe doesn't, it's Zac's fault. 

[*PhilHos*]

(10-07-2024, 04:25 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Another Damning Zac Taylor stat is Burrow has fewer 4thqtr comebacks and game winning drives than Jon Kitna and Jeff Blake

Jon Kitna 18 wins 28 losses as a Bengal
Jeff Blake 25 wins 41 losses as a Bengal
Joe Burrow 30 wins 26 losses 1 tie as a Bengal

I'll take the outright wins over 4th QTR comebacks, but kudos to you for trying to make it seem like Burrow is not clutch AND blaming it on Zac Taylor.

[Soonerpeace]

When you get the ball in overtime after recovering the Ravens' fumble, what was the mindset on offense there?
"We feel like we're in field goal range. We've thrown the ball in that situation before. We called a pass and Joe (Burrow) actually did a great job getting us out of it, back into a run because the look was not there to throw it. There was good management by him and we still got a couple yards out of it and then we're in the position win (with) the field goal and we thought we'd win it with that."



In the risk-reward with the field goal attempt in overtime, do you think you could've gotten more yards to make a closer field goal?
"It's the (possibility of a) sack, a holding penalty, anything that could knock you back. So, when you are in field goal range and you believe in your kicker, it's just as simple as that."

Would you have liked to throw a pass or two after the defense recovered the fumble?
Joe "As good as their rush is, you always take a chance at getting sacked in that situation. We were in field goal range. They made a kick down the stretch and we didn't."
Zac says you checked out of a pass play ...
"It wasn't a good look for the one we had called."

[Frank Booth]

(10-07-2024, 04:39 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Jon Kitna 18 wins 28 losses as a Bengal
Jeff Blake 25 wins 41 losses as a Bengal
Joe Burrow 30 wins 26 losses 1 tie as a Bengal

I'll take the outright wins over 4th QTR comebacks, but kudos to you for trying to make it seem like Burrow is not clutch AND blaming it on Zac Taylor.

stafford would always lead the league in 4th quarter comebacks.

on 8-8 lions teams

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-07-2024, 04:51 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: stafford would always lead the league in 4th quarter comebacks.

on 8-8 lions teams

Stafford only led the league in 4th quarter comebacks twice in his career and both years the Lions finished with a winning record and went to the playoffs.

[Rsswes]

(10-06-2024, 05:41 PM)Tony Wrote: Burrow was killing them and you run 3 straight times for  50+ yard field goal!?!?!?!? IM BEYOND PISSED. HE HAS TO GO

This team will never have success. They suck. Always have. Always will. You see we are in a division where all but the Bungals have the hardware in the building. They know how to win. MIKE, ZAC The Bungals will forever suck man. They are garbage. The most i hope for is chase and burrow leave and go to a place that wants to win. This team is a joke. They SUCK. BUNGALS lead from the bottom. 1-4 now no more than 5 -7 wins this year. Maybe next year. Haha not. ZAC will be back so we can expect the same.

[Frank Booth]

(10-07-2024, 05:13 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Stafford only led the league in 4th quarter comebacks twice in his career and both years the Lions finished with a winning record and went to the playoffs.

ok 1 game off

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-07-2024, 05:16 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: ok 1 game off

They won 11 one of those two times, which is 3 games off.

So... 
Stafford only did it 2 times out of his 16 years so not "would always".
And neither of those two times did he go 8-8.

That's both of the "facts" you tried to present being objectively wrong, making your post entirely wrong, Frank.

[NUGDUKWE]

(10-07-2024, 04:21 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Tell me you don't know what coaches do for a team without telling me you don't know what coaches do for a team. 

Is it the players that put the team together? Is it the players that created the playbook in the offseason? Is it the players that create the gameplan each week? Is it the players that call the plays? Is it the players that decide when to go for it on 4th down or to go for the 2 point conversion? Is it the players that keep the team focused during adversity (ok, maybe this one they do play a part)? 

I could go on but this notion that a bad coach can be a coach of a winning team because of the players is just preposterous, IMO. Yes, Burrow and Jamar certainly make Zac's job easier and maybe even make him look better than he actually is, but to claim that the coach is being carried by the players just shows a fundamental lack of football knowledge. 

I'm not so sure. I mean look at Lou his scheme will work if you have the right players to operate it. I feel like Zimmer put together better defense with less or equal talent than we have now. All teams or offenses need talent but Taylor had no success until he got Burrow and 2 good wide receivers. I think Taylor is underrated for his route concepts. But it all depends on the players being talented enough to get open and Burrow reading it. Then you add in his continued terrible situational football calls and it makes everything harder on the team. 

[Frank Booth]

(10-07-2024, 05:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: They won 11 one of those two times, which is 3 games off.

So... 
Stafford only did it 2 times out of his 16 years so not "would always".
And neither of those two times did he go 8-8.

That's both of the "facts" you tried to present being objectively wrong, making your post entirely wrong, Frank.

8-8/9-7 big whoop. I’m working off memory here

[SladeX]

The issue isn’t mcpherson
The issue isn’t the holder
It isn’t the play calling in that situation

We shouldn’t have been in this position to begin with.
The defense is trash.
Bates should have been retained.
Bell should have been retained.
Reader should have been retained.
These guys were the Burrow Chase and Higgins th of the D. It’s clear that Reader was the anchor of the D.

But it’s more than that. The team is lackluster. Something’s up behind the scenes. I’ve seen it too many times before, in various sports.

I don’t know that replacing the coaching staff is the answer. I don’t know that it isn’t.

I do know, given the parameters of our situation as a small market team, we MUST draft better.

Edit: it isn’t just a question of cap management. We are also a family owned team, so thete are cash flow issues as well. And that’s fine. I don’t mind us being a family business. I like it as opposed to faceless corporate entities. But given all this, scouting is all the more important.

I think we were all hoping Katie would break from the past and focus on this more… .

I’m kinda done with this bunch for the time being. I’ve discovered golf. I want to play well. Starting at age 58, means devoting time to it daily.