NASA spacecraft rockets toward Jupiter’s moon Europa

[*Awful Llama*]

When I was an impressionable teen I saw the 2001: A Space Odyssey sequel 2010: The Year We Make Contact.  If you've not seen it, Jupiter's moon Europa is a large part of the story, and since that time I've been fascinated by it.  There was an article in today's paper all about a new spacecraft launched on Monday toward Europa with the intent to see if the ingredients necessary for life exist there.

From the article:  

It will take Europa Clipper 5 1/2 years to reach Jupiter, where it will slip into orbit around the giant gas planet and sneak close to Europa during dozens of radiation-drenched flybys.  Scientists are almost certain a deep, global ocean exists beneath Europa’s icy crust. And where there is water, there could be life, making the moon one of the most promising places out there to hunt for it.  

Anyway, this forum seemed a little quiet and thought this was interesting and wanted to share.  It is amazing what technology has led us to.  

https://apnews.com/article/nasa-europa-clipper-jupiter-88d680ae8625c239370865b36d5d69a8

[Stewy]

(10-16-2024, 01:26 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: When I was an impressionable teen I saw the 2001: A Space Odyssey sequel 2010: The Year We Make Contact.  If you've not seen it, Jupiter's moon Europa is a large part of the story, and since that time I've been fascinated by it.  There was an article in today's paper all about a new spacecraft launched on Monday toward Europa with the intent to see if the ingredients necessary for life exist there.

From the article:  

It will take Europa Clipper 5 1/2 years to reach Jupiter, where it will slip into orbit around the giant gas planet and sneak close to Europa during dozens of radiation-drenched flybys.  Scientists are almost certain a deep, global ocean exists beneath Europa’s icy crust. And where there is water, there could be life, making the moon one of the most promising places out there to hunt for it.  

Anyway, this forum seemed a little quiet and thought this was interesting and wanted to share.  It is amazing what technology has led us to.  

https://apnews.com/article/nasa-europa-clipper-jupiter-88d680ae8625c239370865b36d5d69a8

I am interested in all things space and solar system.  If I had been a shade smarter, I would have loved to have worked for JPL as a planetary geologist.

[NATI BENGALS]

1.8 billion miles… Hurry up !!!

[SunsetBengal]

(10-16-2024, 11:47 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: 1.8 billion miles… Hurry up !!!

You know, after growing up with all of the Sci-Fi movies of my generation, I would have thought that warp drive travel would be much more commonplace by now. 5.5 years to get there? What are they doing, just drifting?

[*Awful Llama*]

(10-17-2024, 07:38 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You know, after growing up with all of the Sci-Fi movies of my generation, I would have thought that warp drive travel would be much more commonplace by now. 5.5 years to get there? What are they doing, just drifting?

Well,  I was curious about that myself so I checked the NASA website.  I didn't see a speed mentioned , but they say the spacecraft will travel 1.8 billion miles to reach its orbit position in 5.5 years.  There are 8,760 hours in a year, so there would be 48,180 hours in 5.5 years.  1.8B divided by 48,180 is 37,359.9 miles per hour.  That would be the average, of course.  I imagine the speed will vary some when they slingshot around Jupiter versus periods of straight-line flight.  And, reading on the site it's not a direct path there (and apologies, I made the below text white so it would show up on the night mode that I and I assume most others use, I'm not sure how to cut and paste text and get it to be the default color of this site):

The spacecraft will travel 1.8 billion miles (2.9 billion kilometers) on a trajectory that will leverage the power of gravity assists, first to Mars in four months and then back to Earth for another gravity assist flyby in 2026. After it begins orbiting Jupiter in April 2030, the spacecraft will fly past Europa 49 times.


So it doesn't even leave earth's orbit permanently until 2026.  Some more specifics about the mission:

• The largest spacecraft NASA ever built for a mission headed to another planet, Europa Clipper also is the first NASA mission dedicated to studying an ocean world beyond Earth. 
  

• Coming as close as 16 miles (25 kilometers) to the surface, Europa Clipper is equipped with nine science instruments and a gravity experiment, including an ice-penetrating radar, cameras, and a thermal instrument to look for areas of warmer ice and any recent eruptions of water. 
  

• Europa Clipper also carries the largest solar arrays NASA has ever used for an interplanetary mission. With arrays extended, the spacecraft spans 100 feet (30.5 meters) from end to end. With propellant loaded, it weighs about 13,000 pounds (5,900 kilograms).
  
  

Fascinating stuff.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(10-17-2024, 09:39 AM)Awful Llama Wrote: Well,  I was curious about that myself so I checked the NASA website.  I didn't see a speed mentioned , but they say the spacecraft will travel 1.8 billion miles to reach its orbit position in 5.5 years.  There are 8,760 hours in a year, so there would be 48,180 hours in 5.5 years.  1.8B divided by 48,180 is 37,359.9 miles per hour.  That would be the average, of course.  I imagine the speed will vary some when they slingshot around Jupiter versus periods of straight-line flight.  And, reading on the site it's not a direct path there (and apologies, I made the below text white so it would show up on the night mode that I and I assume most others use, I'm not sure how to cut and paste text and get it to be the default color of this site):

The spacecraft will travel 1.8 billion miles (2.9 billion kilometers) on a trajectory that will leverage the power of gravity assists, first to Mars in four months and then back to Earth for another gravity assist flyby in 2026. After it begins orbiting Jupiter in April 2030, the spacecraft will fly past Europa 49 times.


So it doesn't even leave earth's orbit permanently until 2026.  Some more specifics about the mission:

• The largest spacecraft NASA ever built for a mission headed to another planet, Europa Clipper also is the first NASA mission dedicated to studying an ocean world beyond Earth. 
  

• Coming as close as 16 miles (25 kilometers) to the surface, Europa Clipper is equipped with nine science instruments and a gravity experiment, including an ice-penetrating radar, cameras, and a thermal instrument to look for areas of warmer ice and any recent eruptions of water. 
  

• Europa Clipper also carries the largest solar arrays NASA has ever used for an interplanetary mission. With arrays extended, the spacecraft spans 100 feet (30.5 meters) from end to end. With propellant loaded, it weighs about 13,000 pounds (5,900 kilograms).
  
  

Fascinating stuff.

The speed out there is what always made me questionable about space travel.

I know it happens, but at that speed, the smallest pebble punches through everything. Always had that question about space travel.

[*Awful Llama*]

(10-17-2024, 08:33 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: The speed out there is what always made me questionable about space travel.

I know it happens, but at that speed, the smallest pebble punches through everything. Always had that question about space travel.

Say what you want about Gravity, and Neil deGrasse Tyson certainly had issues with its physics and mechanics of space travel, but the debris cascade sequence was harrowing.  A grain of sand traveling at 40,000 mph can be a killer.   Still, I wish we did have the capability for long-range manned flight right now.  Don't know if I can make it all the way to next century.  

[Stewy]

(10-19-2024, 06:54 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: Say what you want about Gravity, and Neil deGrasse Tyson certainly had issues with its physics and mechanics of space travel, but the debris cascade sequence was harrowing.  A grain of sand traveling at 40,000 mph can be a killer.   Still, I wish we did have the capability for long-range manned flight right now.  Don't know if I can make it all the way to next century.  

There are several problems that need to be overcome:
---Interspace radiation:  The Earth's Magnetic Field keeps most space missions safe from solar radiation.  The several days astronauts spend when going to the moon can cause mutations.  Spending YEARS in space would be a death sentence from the radiation alone.  Currently there is no solution for this.  Mars doesn't help as it has no magnetic field - at all.  So travelers will find no relief on Mars.
---Muscular Atrophy:  Spinning space craft induces gravity.  Interstellar showed a version of this.  They suggested the diameter of the Endeavor would induce 1g at a 30% spin.  In reality it would have been about 1/10th of a G at 30% spin considering the Endeavors size.  This s a big problem obviously because the skeletal muscle including internal organs would deteriorate due to the low gravity.  Mars doesn't help much as it is 1/3 of Earth's Gravity.  Again there is no solution for this currently.
---Oxygen Waste/Balanced Habitats:  Mars inhabitants would have to grow their own food in greenhouse habitats, which would create huge amounts of oxygen, enough to kill humans, so it has to be filtered out and replaced with CO2.  Humans give off CO2, which needs to be filtered out, and balanced with nitrogen (78%) and oxygen.  Nitrogen does not exists in huge quantities on Mars.  Creating self sustaining (because they have to be self sustaining) long term balanced habitats on Mars again has no 
plausible solution.

These are serious issues, on top of the fact that anyone you send is essentially never coming back.  It's Mars or bust.  For all of Elon Musks bravado, he is essentially full of shyt.

p.s. - Long term habitats on the moon share every one of the same issues, except in an emergency it's a lot easier to save/resupply a colony on the moon, vs. Mars.  One thing goes wrong on Mars and that's it.  They're done.

[*Awful Llama*]

(10-19-2024, 09:10 PM)Stewy Wrote: There are several problems that need to be overcome:
---Interspace radiation:  The Earth's Magnetic Field keeps most space missions safe from solar radiation.  The several days astronauts spend when going to the moon can cause mutations.  Spending YEARS in space would be a death sentence from the radiation alone.  Currently there is no solution for this.  Mars doesn't help as it has no magnetic field - at all.  So travelers will find no relief on Mars.
---Muscular Atrophy:  Spinning space craft induces gravity.  Interstellar showed a version of this.  They suggested the diameter of the Endeavor would induce 1g at a 30% spin.  In reality it would have been about 1/10th of a G at 30% spin considering the Endeavors size.  This s a big problem obviously because the skeletal muscle including internal organs would deteriorate due to the low gravity.  Mars doesn't help much as it is 1/3 of Earth's Gravity.  Again there is no solution for this currently.
---Oxygen Waste/Balanced Habitats:  Mars inhabitants would have to grow their own food in greenhouse habitats, which would create huge amounts of oxygen, enough to kill humans, so it has to be filtered out and replaced with CO2.  Humans give off CO2, which needs to be filtered out, and balanced with nitrogen (78%) and oxygen.  Nitrogen does not exists in huge quantities on Mars.  Creating self sustaining (because they have to be self sustaining) long term balanced habitats on Mars again has no 
plausible solution.

These are serious issues, on top of the fact that anyone you send is essentially never coming back.  It's Mars or bust.  For all of Elon Musks bravado, he is essentially full of shyt.

p.s. - Long term habitats on the moon share every one of the same issues, except in an emergency it's a lot easier to save/resupply a colony on the moon, vs. Mars.  One thing goes wrong on Mars and that's it.  They're done.

TL;DR.  Have we figured out the replicator thingies yet?  

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(10-19-2024, 09:10 PM)Stewy Wrote: There are several problems that need to be overcome:
---Interspace radiation:  The Earth's Magnetic Field keeps most space missions safe from solar radiation.  The several days astronauts spend when going to the moon can cause mutations.  Spending YEARS in space would be a death sentence from the radiation alone.  Currently there is no solution for this.  Mars doesn't help as it has no magnetic field - at all.  So travelers will find no relief on Mars.
---Muscular Atrophy:  Spinning space craft induces gravity.  Interstellar showed a version of this.  They suggested the diameter of the Endeavor would induce 1g at a 30% spin.  In reality it would have been about 1/10th of a G at 30% spin considering the Endeavors size.  This s a big problem obviously because the skeletal muscle including internal organs would deteriorate due to the low gravity.  Mars doesn't help much as it is 1/3 of Earth's Gravity.  Again there is no solution for this currently.
---Oxygen Waste/Balanced Habitats:  Mars inhabitants would have to grow their own food in greenhouse habitats, which would create huge amounts of oxygen, enough to kill humans, so it has to be filtered out and replaced with CO2.  Humans give off CO2, which needs to be filtered out, and balanced with nitrogen (78%) and oxygen.  Nitrogen does not exists in huge quantities on Mars.  Creating self sustaining (because they have to be self sustaining) long term balanced habitats on Mars again has no 
plausible solution.

These are serious issues, on top of the fact that anyone you send is essentially never coming back.  It's Mars or bust.  For all of Elon Musks bravado, he is essentially full of shyt.

p.s. - Long term habitats on the moon share every one of the same issues, except in an emergency it's a lot easier to save/resupply a colony on the moon, vs. Mars.  One thing goes wrong on Mars and that's it.  They're done.

Absolutely, and many other factors such as repairs, resupplying, and death or catastrophic injury.  Duplicity in skills and education and feeding the crew. If you think about it, they basically have to send everything needed for the trip here, back, and the time spent, along with them in the initial payload.

Insane.

Those guys/gals are heroes.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(10-16-2024, 01:51 PM)Stewy Wrote: I am interested in all things space and solar system.  If I had been a shade smarter, I would have loved to have worked for JPL as a planetary geologist.

So what’s stopping you? Go back to school no matter your age. I’ve read your science stuff on here; you have the smarts.

[XenoMorph]

(10-16-2024, 01:26 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: When I was an impressionable teen I saw the 2001: A Space Odyssey sequel 2010: The Year We Make Contact.  If you've not seen it, Jupiter's moon Europa is a large part of the story, and since that time I've been fascinated by it.  There was an article in today's paper all about a new spacecraft launched on Monday toward Europa with the intent to see if the ingredients necessary for life exist there.

From the article:  

It will take Europa Clipper 5 1/2 years to reach Jupiter, where it will slip into orbit around the giant gas planet and sneak close to Europa during dozens of radiation-drenched flybys.  Scientists are almost certain a deep, global ocean exists beneath Europa’s icy crust. And where there is water, there could be life, making the moon one of the most promising places out there to hunt for it.  

Anyway, this forum seemed a little quiet and thought this was interesting and wanted to share.  It is amazing what technology has led us to.  

https://apnews.com/article/nasa-europa-clipper-jupiter-88d680ae8625c239370865b36d5d69a8

Nice....  Hopefully doesnt turn out like the movie

[*Awful Llama*]

(10-22-2024, 10:36 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Nice....  Hopefully doesnt turn out like the movie

I don't know, a second sun might be neat.

Regardless, we can't say we weren't already warned.

[XenoMorph]

(10-22-2024, 11:03 AM)Awful Llama Wrote: I don't know, a second sun might be neat.

Regardless, we can't say we weren't already warned.

opps i ment the Europa movie lol

been a while for 2010 need to rewatch

[*Awful Llama*]

(10-22-2024, 11:15 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: opps i ment the Europa movie lol

been a while for 2010 need to rewatch

Ah, that explains it.  The 2010 ending was optimistic so I was wondering what you didn't like about that

I believe some years ago I bought a DVD of Europa Report at Walmart or somewhere for just a few bucks, and given its subject matter.  It may be buried amidst the rubble, so I guess I need to go dig that out and take a look.