Did The FO “luck” into Zac?

[jj22]

Or do you really trust the FO still to find a coach that can win a SB here?


2019 HC candidates.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/09/27/nfl-coordinators-position-coaches-to-watch

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25626408/nfl-coaching-candidates-hire-2019-espn-panelists-make-their-picks

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/21/nfl-head-coaching-candidates-2019-openings-defelippo-mcdaniels-riley-saban-condoleezza-rice

2019 HC hires

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/1/10/18175671/new-nfl-coaching-hires-grades-2019

How much faith did you have for them to get it right in 2019 and do you still have that faith?

[SunsetBengal]

Since we're doing hindsight half way through Zac's 6th season, I'll just say that they might have missed the boat on Matt LaFluer.  However, it's hard to say if LaFluer would have had the same consistency in Cincinnati as in Green Bay. The Packers are a very well managed franchise.

[reuben.ahmed]

(10-30-2024, 08:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Since we're doing hindsight half way through Zac's 6th season, I'll just say that they might have missed the boat on Matt LaFluer.  However, it's hard to say if LaFluer would have had the same consistency in Cincinnati as in Green Bay. The Packers are a very well managed franchise.

LaFleur's regular season record is much better than I had thought.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-30-2024, 08:25 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: LaFleur's regular season record is much better than I had thought.

I keep half an eye on what's going on with the Packers, as one of our sons is a fan. He does likewise with the Bengals, so that we always have something to talk about when the family gets together.

[Nicomo Cosca]

I wanted Bieniemy and he still hasn’t landed a HC job so who knows.

I do think there’s a couple of really enticing options if they decided to pull the plug on Zac. Mainly Vrabel and Ben Johnson

[jj22]

I don’t remember Zac being on anyone’s radar.

And I don’t think we could get into a bidding war with a team who would want a top candidate like BJ.Especially if they want any sort of power. I’d be all for him tho. 

Zac worked out great for the gamble. But how much was that luck, Burrow, or was it FO savvy to recognize a coach that could lead them to a SB that no one else saw and hired them?

I just don’t know.

[Gdale_Bengal]

Zac was like the 5th option. I think there first option or top 2 was tgem trying to get an interview with NO defensive coordinator. They were declined, and so they went through a list of guys I can’t remember.

Then there was Zac Taylor, and the FO was like “Teah sure we like this guy” like way way into the off-season, which led to a not so good draft. Like drafting Drew Sample bad.

[Destro]

(10-30-2024, 08:45 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I wanted Bieniemy and he still hasn’t landed a HC job so who knows.

I did, too, but changed my mind as something began to seem off to me. Passed over a bunch of times, then ends up in the sinking ship that was Washington in the same position. After the house cleaning there, he was rocketed out of the NFL. 

To the thread at hand.
Bengals just had to get rid of Lewis. It also happened to be a time where the Rams were thought to be a creation of the football gods. Bengals end up with the QB coach, somehow, as the head coach. Bengals continue to suck through two years to get Joe Burrow. Sadly, the O-line was still built out of webble wobbles, and Joe's knee gets turned into carnitas. That allows us to draft Chase, with the urging of a limping Burrow. These champions return to championship type things. Everything else around them has since burned down, with no future in site.

Let's play the trade game. Of all the "bad teams" who would you think they would have better success with: Chase/Burrow or Taylor? Only one side of that equation have been highly successful without the other.  

[Clark W Griswold]

(10-30-2024, 10:27 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Zac was like the 5th option. I think there first option or top 2 was tgem trying to get an interview with NO defensive coordinator. They were declined, and so they went through a list of guys I can’t remember.

Then there was Zac Taylor, and the FO was like “Teah sure we like this guy” like way way into the off-season, which led to a not so good draft. Like drafting Drew Sample bad.

I remember watching the Rams in the SB vs New England that year and they already knew Zac got the Bengals HC position so it wasn’t that far into the Bengals offseason. Common for teams hiring coaches who are coming from a SB staff. He was announced on Feb 4, 2019.

They just over drafted Sample (no surprise for this FO)

[jj22]

(10-31-2024, 11:14 AM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: I remember watching the Rams in the SB vs New England that year and they already knew Zac got the Bengals HC position so it wasn’t that far into the Bengals offseason.  Common for teams hiring coaches who are coming from a SB staff.  He was announced on Feb 4, 2019.

They just over drafted Sample (no surprise for this FO)

The issue with the draft I always thought had to do with the coaching staff which did take long to finalize. And the FO needed the coaches to scout.

Or at least have some familiarity with the team which they hadn't. 

Tobin should have though, but he couldn't hold the scouting down for a offseason as the coaches got acclimated. That draft exposed him and the scout for not being able to make it a draft without coaches being around and familiar with the players and team needs. 

Zac should have fought to bring in his own GM. Zac wasn't in any position (clearly) to really put his foot down with anything which may be why he was hired. He really didn't get anything that he should have being young an in a new era where HC's were getting more power.

He didn't get much more if any than Marvin did. 

[jj22]

Although I should acknowledge the change in FA philosophy that maybe he got. But that was a rough FA class as well. So Tobin and the scout couldn't even get that right without the coaches input.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-31-2024, 11:14 AM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: I remember watching the Rams in the SB vs New England that year and they already knew Zac got the Bengals HC position so it wasn’t that far into the Bengals offseason.  Common for teams hiring coaches who are coming from a SB staff.  He was announced on Feb 4, 2019.

They just over drafted Sample (no surprise for this FO)

It was late, as the hiring wasn't announced until after the Superbowl. All of the other teams had already hired their guys and had massive head starts in assembling their staffs. Zac had to hurry, scramble, grovel and beg to get a staff in place. I mean, good grief, Lou Anarumo was like the 5th option at DC. Wasting all of that time really set the draft evaluation process back, thus leaving Duke to his own devices. We see how that draft turned out..

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-31-2024, 11:19 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It was late, as the hiring wasn't announced until after the Superbowl. All of the other teams had already hired their guys and had massive head starts in assembling their staffs. Zac had to hurry, scramble, grovel and beg to get a staff in place. I mean, good grief, Lou Anarumo was like the 5th option at DC. Wasting all of that time really set the draft evaluation process back, thus leaving Duke to his own devices. We see how that draft turned out..

Duke Tobin has got to go. You've got reporters asking our quarterback about trades because that piece of shit won't show his face during the season. His seat should be "Fahrenheit 451" hot at this point, and he should be forced to answer these questions. 

[jj22]

Right. What other team's starting QB has to answer questions about trades and moves that can make the team better. Things are bad in the Jungle.

[*ochocincos*]

I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel on Taylor, and I was super pessimistic about him when they signed him.
Dude's resume was pretty much one of the worst. But he interviewed well.

Him being able to get the team so much further just a few years after taking over Marvin's team showed what he could help build.

My opinion will sour next year if we don't see any coaching changes and especially if the team doesn't get back into a deep playoff run.
I don't want to go back to one-and-done repeated playoffs of the 2010's and definitely don't want to go back to 2018-2020 era Bengals of 6 wins or less every year.

Next year is Taylor's hot seat year, IMO.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-31-2024, 12:11 PM)jj22 Wrote: Right. What other team's starting QB has to answer questions about trades and moves that can make the team better. Things are bad in the Jungle.

.....and the worst part is, I believe it was Dan Hoard that asked him that. That's almost like Lap or Hobspin asking that question. 

[jj22]

I haven't given up on Zac as HC, but I wonder if we can do better? I remember there being questions of who would coach here under this "unique" organizational structure. 6 years later I'm not sure that reputation has changed any.

[*ochocincos*]

Here's all the HC hirings over the past 5 years.
https://www.hogshaven.com/2024/1/23/24047790/reviewing-nfl-head-coach-hirings-over-the-past-5-years-for-success-trends

Notice how many of those have won a Super Bowl since 2019?
1...Bruce Arians. And he's now retired.

Looking at that list though, the Bengals could have done A LOT worse than Taylor.
Maybe better with one or two of these guys, but that's it.

Taylor's coaching staff is the biggest target right now though.
Most can't seem to coach up young talent, and/or the talent identification is just really lacking and these coaches aren't having good players to work with.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-31-2024, 11:57 AM)Wyche Wrote: Duke Tobin has got to go. You've got reporters asking our quarterback about trades because that piece of shit won't show his face during the season. His seat should be "Fahrenheit 451" hot at this point, and he should be forced to answer these questions. 

In a day and age of public transparency, it would be hilarious if the league voted in a rule stating that GMs must hold a weekly State of the Franchise presser every week of the league season.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-31-2024, 01:00 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: In a day and age of public transparency, it would be hilarious if the league voted in a rule stating that GMs must hold a weekly State of the Franchise presser every week of the league season.

Well..... he's not in the business of making other teams better. Apparently that also includes Cincinnati.