Coaching...or Talent?

[HarleyDog]

(11-08-2024, 05:54 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: They whiffed on draft picks.

That's literally it.

Says literally every fan in the NFL. The friggen Chiefs whiffed on draft picks. But, they find a way to win. It's coaching and FO. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-08-2024, 11:09 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Says literally every fan in the NFL. The friggen Chiefs whiffed on draft picks. But, they find a way to win. It's coaching and FO. 

The Chiefs are one of the best drafting teams in the league. They surround Mahomes with homegrown talent.

Chris Jones
Creed Humphrey
Trent McDuffie
Leo Chanal
Nick Bolton
George Karlaftis
Trey Smith

[Nicomo Cosca]

Morning ramblings from a mad man pic.twitter.com/3LFl0gjiPD

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) November 8, 2024

He sums it up perfectly here.

[*psychdoctor*]

It is lack of talent and lack of development of talent. Either way, Bengals have a handful of talented players and do not pay the talented that actually blossom, under their tutelage.

[*bfine32*]

When the team was historically bad and underperformed w/ CP9 I attributed it to the ownership not treating the players as professionals with their amenities, travel, and facilities. This was compounded by a lack of GM and understaffed scouting department.

Marvin came along and helped w/ the FO stuff as far as player selection/management. He was able to draft fairly well, yet got little help via FA or with the facilities.

Zac entered and the FO made a 180. We started dabbling more in FA and upgrading facilities, but now drafting is suspect.

We're almost "there" as mad as folks are currently because we have a losing record, we have one of the best teams in the NFL, but we cannot maintain it because we cannot draft for shit. KC can part w/ big $ players because they can replace them through the draft. Our only option is to replace them w/ cheaper FAs and crappy draft picks.

So the answer is currently talent, but it's because of the FO

[Lucius Cincinnatus]

(11-08-2024, 11:09 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Says literally every fan in the NFL. The friggen Chiefs whiffed on draft picks. But, they find a way to win. It's coaching and FO. 

Yes, every team whiffs, the difference is the rate at which we whiff, and even when we don't whiff, we aren't landing as many high impact players as the teams we need to keep up with. Let's look at impact players drafted by the Chiefs, Bills, Ravens, and Bengals since we drafted Joe Burrow (starting with the 2021 draft). I'm picking those teams since they are navigating a large QB contract while also remaining at the top of the conference. I also understand that "impact players is subjective", but I believe you'll see point. 

Chiefs 2021 - 2024 drafts

• Nick Bolton
• Creed Humphrey
• Trey Smith
• Isiah Pacheco
• Jaylen Watson
• Leo Chenal
• Bryan Cook
• George Karlaftis
• Trent McDuffie
• Rashee Rice
• Willie Gay
• L'Jarius Sneed
  

Bills 2021 - 2024 drafts:

• Keon Coleman
• Dalton Kincaid
• O'Cyrus Torrence
• Dorian Williams
• James Cook
• Terrel Bernard
• Khalil Shakier
• Christian Benford
• Gregory Rousseau
• Spencer Brown
  

Ravens 2021 - 2024 drafts:

• Zay Flowers
• Tavius Robinson (2nd year player with 4 sacks already)
• Kyle Hamilton
• Tyler Linderbaum
• Travis Jones
• Isiah Likely
• Rashod Bateman (On pace for 850 yards and 8 TDs)
• Odafe Oweh (5 sacks and 18 through 3.5 years)
  

Bengals 2021 - 2024 drafts:

• Mims?
• CTB
• Jamarr
  

[Nicomo Cosca]

Bengals Defensive Cap Spent by Year
2019: 23
2020: 16
2021: 3
2022: 2
2023: 4
2024: 4

Bengals Defensive PFF Ranks by Year
2019: 30
2020: 30
2021: 21
2022: 11
2023: 29
2024: 25

Data from @nangleberger

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) November 8, 2024

Can’t say they haven’t spent on the defense. They just paid the wrong guys.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-09-2024, 01:44 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Bengals Defensive Cap Spent by Year
2019: 23
2020: 16
2021: 3
2022: 2
2023: 4
2024: 4

Bengals Defensive PFF Ranks by Year
2019: 30
2020: 30
2021: 21
2022: 11
2023: 29
2024: 25

Data from @nangleberger

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) November 8, 2024

Can’t say they haven’t spent on the defense. They just paid the wrong guys.

One of the most wrong guys they paid on the defense...

[puddycat]

(11-08-2024, 09:51 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Many board members were happy to let Boyd walk, with our depth of experience in the WR room.

I was "happy" to let Boyd walk because I thought we would have Higgins for at least one year and I didn't think we could afford to keep the trio. Only an idiot changes out almost an entire position group in a single year and expects the results to be exemplary. (see safety group)

What I continue to fail to understand is not playing the best players on the team or at least failing to bench players playing badly.  That reflects badly on the position coaches and therefore the head coach and Tobin.  We will never draft well if we can't even recognize the best players on our own team

[bengalsboy]

(11-08-2024, 09:47 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This is where I'm at. 

No way Duke didn't want to keep Jessie Bates. It's one of his best draft picks ever. The extension was on the table. It wasn't good enough. Same thing with Tee. 

That falls on the Blackburn's.

Our inability to draft recently? That's on Tobin. 

You can't pay everyone top dollar,when you have a qb,taking 53 million  of the cap.And a wr,who is going to get at least $30 million of it.(Chase)That doesn't leave a lot,for the other 51 players.I would not have given Bates $17 million a year either.As for Higgins.His agent(who is the same one Bates has),wants $30 million a year for Higgins.Higgins isn't worth that.The Bengals have just been bad at drafting, the people who were meant to replace them.(Dax Hill and Jermaine Burton.).

[*jason*]

(11-08-2024, 07:43 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: Yeah I think about how “lucky” the Bengals were that Burrow got his knee taken out in his rookie season. With JB they would have won at least a couple more games and then no Chase

The only really good pick they have had was Higgins. Burrow after his last college season was an easy choice and then of course they were going to take his talented buddy at a need position the next year (thanks again Falcons)

Tee fell into their lap but he was a second rounder and not a “no brainer” pick like Burrow and Chase were.

Tee was a no brainer where he was drafted.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-10-2024, 08:00 PM)jason Wrote: Tee was a no brainer where he was drafted.

Depends on who you think is better between him and Michael Pittman Jr.

[Frank Booth]

(11-10-2024, 08:22 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Depends on who you think is better between him and Michael Pittman Jr.

Tee is better when healthy.

Pittman stays healthy.

I’ll take pittman

[Chezaugie]

I know this is unpopular, but, Burrow's contract will be a bane on this franchise for years to come. Yes, he is an elite QB but that does not, and never will, translate to success. I see franchises like the Steelers, with Russel Wilson, and Detroit, with Jared Goff, succeed. In NFL history teams won Super Bowls with QBs that were managers of a great system, not great athletes. Montana, Bradshaw, even Brady, were great leaders while not being the most physically talented athletes This organization needs to learn successful teams (like Pittsburgh) and have successful plans and concentrate on the a "team" and integrate a winning system. I don't to be the guy that says "We have the greatest quarterback" I want to be the guy that says, "We just won the Super Bowl."

[Nicomo Cosca]

Yeah, they should have traded him for a bunch of draft picks they would have just ****** up.

[TheFan]

(11-08-2024, 11:28 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The Chiefs are one of the best drafting teams in the league. They surround Mahomes with homegrown talent.

Chris Jones
Creed Humphrey
Trent McDuffie
Leo Chanal
Nick Bolton
George Karlaftis
Trey Smith

Do you think it's possible they just one of the best HCs and DCs in the league? 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-10-2024, 10:07 PM)TheFan Wrote: Do you think it's possible they just one of the best HCs and DCs in the league? 

It sure helps.

[J24]

(11-10-2024, 09:10 PM)Chezaugie Wrote: I know this is unpopular, but, Burrow's contract will be a bane on this franchise for years to come. Yes, he is an elite QB but that does not, and never will, translate to success. I see franchises like the Steelers, with Russel Wilson, and Detroit, with Jared Goff, succeed. In NFL history teams won Super Bowls with QBs that were managers of a great system, not great athletes. Montana, Bradshaw, even Brady, were great leaders while not being the most physically talented athletes This organization needs to learn successful teams (like Pittsburgh) and have successful plans and concentrate on the a "team" and integrate a winning system. I don't to be the guy that says "We have the greatest quarterback" I want to be the guy that says, "We just won the Super Bowl."

WTF? 

[Whatever]

(11-10-2024, 08:00 PM)jason Wrote: Tee was a no brainer where he was drafted.

Ehhhh...not really.  Tee tested terribly with a 4.13 RAS.  That's bad.  With a stacked WR class and names like Pittman, Claypool, Shenault, Jefferson, and Mims also going in the 2nd, he was far from a no brainer.  Not to mention, several studs at other positions were also available, like DeAndre Swift, Jonathan Taylor, and Antoine Winfield Jr.

[SladeX]

More coaching than talent.

TBS we must beef up scouting and DRAFT BETTER!