Trading Stars to Rebuild: A case study

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-20-2024, 09:42 PM)J24 Wrote: Nah, Hill is the better player between the 2. Plus he's much younger than Kelce.

Hill's 4 years + postseasons with Mahomes: 416 catches, 5,818 yards, 48 TD
Kelce those same 4 years + postseasons: 480 catches, 6,103 yards, 46 TD

Kelce put up better stats and his position is 1/2 of the cost. Having 1 All-Pro pass catcher is fine, you don't need two, and it makes sense to get rid of your #2. Hill got to go against the Chiefs twice to show them they were wrong and his team put up 14 and 7 points and won zero playoff games.

Now Kelce is indeed as you mentioned older and he seems a little cooked now in 2024, but I highly doubt they care after it allowed them to win 2 more SBs after the trade and are at least a possibility for a third straight.

[*jason*]

(11-21-2024, 12:13 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Hill's 4 years + postseasons with Mahomes: 416 catches, 5,818 yards, 48 TD
Kelce those same 4 years + postseasons: 480 catches, 6,103 yards, 46 TD

Kelce put up better stats and his position is 1/2 of the cost. Having 1 All-Pro pass catcher is fine, you don't need two, and it makes sense to get rid of your #2. Hill got to go against the Chiefs twice to show them they were wrong and his team put up 14 and 7 points and won zero playoff games.

Now Kelce is indeed as you mentioned older and he seems a little cooked now in 2024, but I highly doubt they care after it allowed them to win 2 more SBs after the trade and are at least a possibility for a third straight.

Feels like Tyreek is at the edge of the cliff right now too. I think Kelce is 5 years older?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-21-2024, 12:20 AM)jason Wrote: Feels like Tyreek is at the edge of the cliff right now too. I think Kelce is 5 years older?

He's also kind of a trashcan of a human being. So team culture and locker room need to be taken into account. Guy would have been in jail about 6 times already if not for being REALLY good at sports.

[puddycat]

Hill was extended at a max value after 3 years in the league and then played 3 more years with KC before being traded before his last year. If the Bengals want to follow that model Chase would be extended for thru 2028 and then traded before the 2028 season.

Bengals did restructure Mixon twice to help with the cap and then traded him for a bag of chips before his money came due. I'm guessing that agents around the league noticed that the Bengals did him dirty.
If they wanted to get value for Tee they would have extended him before last year for less than he was paid with the franchise tag and be in a position to trade him now.
They would have sought to trade Boyd before last year.
They should have got the deal done with Chase before this year.
They should have extended Trey for more than 1 year which would have kept him happy and put the Bengals in a better trade position.
This off season they should be looking at extending Dax Hill and CTB in addition to Chase, not least to avoid Hill's $9.4M option year.

But the Bengals have avoided guaranteed money and extensions until they had to start in order to complete.

[*jason*]

(11-21-2024, 12:27 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: He's also kind of a trashcan of a human being. So team culture and locker room need to be taken into account. Guy would have been in jail about 6 times already if not for being REALLY good at sports.

Yeah man... I've never liked the guy. I try not to judge things I don't have first hand knowledge of, but that guy makes it hard... And I've heard that phone call with his kid's mom.

[*Awful Llama*]

(11-20-2024, 08:57 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yup, their current owner only took over full control of the team in 2020, fired the HC and GM mid-season, then poached the Saint's assistant head coach and the Ram's director of college scouting to be their new HC and GM.

Sheila Ford Hamp, proof that an inept football family can redeem itself in just one generation with just one intelligent person with the character to do the right thing and ignore her predecessor's examples.  That could have been Katie, but she instead chose emulate her stubborn, football-clueless father.  Maybe one of her daughters will be the answer.  The 2040s could be our decade 

[Sled21]

(11-20-2024, 03:36 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So the Bengals have Higgins, Chase, and Hendrickson that are stars and would be worth a lot on the market.

We all see how great the Lions are. Well how did they get some of these players? A: By trading Stafford.

Lions gained:
QB Jared Goff
WR Jameson Williams (first round, 12th overall)
RB Jahmyr Gibbs (first round, 12th overall)
TE Sam LaPorta (second round, 34th overall)
DL Josh Paschal (second round, 46th overall)
DT Brodric Martin (third round, 96th overall)
DB Ifeatu Melifonwu (third round, 101st overall)

https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2023/5/1/23705974/matthew-stafford-jared-goff-trade-final-results-detroit-lions-players-accumulated

How good would the Bengals look if they traded Tee Higgins for a 2nd and 3rd Round pick and drafted LaPorta at TE and a CB or DT in the 3rd?

Instead, we're likely to lose Tee for a compensatory pick.

Maybe, it's better to trade these guys in lost seasons...

You're dreaming. Every team in the league knows his injury history. You can be the best out there, but if you only play half seasons, your value goes down. I don't like typing that, I really think the world of Tee, but he has hurt his value with the constant hamstring injuries. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-21-2024, 10:57 AM)Awful Llama Wrote: Sheila Ford Hamp, proof that an inept football family can redeem itself in just one generation with just one intelligent person with the character to do the right thing and ignore her predecessor's examples.  That could have been Katie, but she instead chose emulate her stubborn, football-clueless father.  Maybe one of her daughters will be the answer.  The 2040s could be our decade 

Katie is only 59. In 2040 Katie will be 75. Considering Mike Brown is 89 and still around, think more like the 2060s being our decade..... for those of the board who will still be alive then.

[*Awful Llama*]

(11-21-2024, 03:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Katie is only 59. In 2040 Katie will be 75. Considering Mike Brown is 89 and still around, think more like the 2060s being our decade..... for those of the board who will still be alive then.

Damn, guess I didn't math the math too good, it's worse than I thought.

Hell, as far as that goes, thanks to science, Mike could still be around then.

[casear2727]

(02-14-2022, 02:37 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I know there will not be unanimous agreement with this post but please feel free to make any arguments against this, I am open to hearing suggestions.

In my opinion, as long as Joe is still great, we need to become an organization whose only priority is to get to the Super Bowl every year. We must improve the X's and O's but are not going anywhere overspending on the wrong Jimmy and Joes.

Tell me why we dont cut/trade any of these players"

Player, Salary Rank, Cap Hit, Savings if we cut

Waynes, #1, $15.8M, $10.8M (no explanation needed)

Boyd, #3, $8.2M, $7.3M (2022), $8.9 (2023).  Averages 4 receptions per game - 3rd to 5th option, an average and fast slot will be fine if we have a great oline

Hopkins, # 7, $7.1M ,$5.9M. Ranked 35th out of 39 Centers on the season. When was the last time we had a solid C to captain the line?  Great QBs usually have very good Centers.


These 3 players add an additional $24M in cap space this off season in addition to the current $57M.

We have already moved on from Waynes.
Slot and TE are not worth high dollars in our offense with Joe, Tee, Chase and oline requiring top dollar.
A quality C could have a huge impact on play calls leadership.

(11-21-2024, 03:15 AM)puddycat Wrote: They would have sought to trade Boyd before last year.

My post from February 2022, one of many pushing for us to trade Boyd at his highest value...  

[casear2727]

(11-20-2024, 11:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And if we trade Hendrickson, we still the awesome pass rusher..............

We shouldn't be trading for draft picks, we should nbe trading picks for players

What were you drinking last night?  I think I get your point and dont necessarily disagree, but teams trading for very good players are trying to take the next step to winning in the playoffs and do not want to give up other solid players.  I am all for unloading picks for good players even with the age of our team, we draft that badly.  But rookies are way cheaper and, tho you disagree, our ownership/front office likes cheap as much as possible.

[007BengalsFan]

No way do you trade Hendrickson.  Who would the Bengals draft with those picks that could replace him?  The Bengals would more than likely end up with Myles Murphy type guys.

and Tee?  Nobody wanted to trade for him this year and pay him 22 million.  Nobody is going to trade for him next year and pay him 26 million when he continues to have injury issues

[J24]

(11-23-2024, 01:16 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: No way do you trade Hendrickson.  Who would the Bengals draft with those picks that could replace him?  The Bengals would more than likely end up with Myles Murphy type guys.

and Tee?  Nobody wanted to trade for him this year and pay him 22 million.  Nobody is going to trade for him next year and pay him 26 million when he continues to have injury issues

Trey is 30 years old, on the final year of his contract, and has already asked for a trade. Ideally, keeping him should be  option 1 but trading him is a viable option.

Tee was never on the trading block and the Bengals were never interested in trading him(a bad move on thier part). Saying that no team was interested him or won't be interested in trading for him is highly questionable thing to say considering the talent that Tee has. Tee probably  could get anything from an early 4th to early 3rd this offseason in a trade if the FO is open to it.

[*jason*]

(11-23-2024, 02:21 AM)J24 Wrote: Trey is 30 years old, on the final year of his contract, and has already asked for a trade. Ideally, keeping him should be  option 1 but trading him is a viable option.

Tee was never on the trading block and the Bengals were never interested in trading him(a bad move on thier part). Saying that no team was interested him or won't be interested in trading for him is highly questionable thing to say considering the talent that Tee has. Tee probably  could get anything from an early 4th to early 3rd this offseason in a trade if the FO is open to it.

Plus I think Tee will be "less injured" once he has his second contract. I can't blame a guy for making business decisions during a season like this. He'll probably miss a couple more consecutive games before it's over.

[kevin]

(11-20-2024, 03:36 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So the Bengals have Higgins, Chase, and Hendrickson that are stars and would be worth a lot on the market.

We all see how great the Lions are. Well how did they get some of these players? A: By trading Stafford.

Lions gained:
QB Jared Goff
WR Jameson Williams (first round, 12th overall)
RB Jahmyr Gibbs (first round, 12th overall)
TE Sam LaPorta (second round, 34th overall)
DL Josh Paschal (second round, 46th overall)
DT Brodric Martin (third round, 96th overall)
DB Ifeatu Melifonwu (third round, 101st overall)

https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2023/5/1/23705974/matthew-stafford-jared-goff-trade-final-results-detroit-lions-players-accumulated

How good would the Bengals look if they traded Tee Higgins for a 2nd and 3rd Round pick and drafted LaPorta at TE and a CB or DT in the 3rd?

Instead, we're likely to lose Tee for a compensatory pick.

Maybe, it's better to trade these guys in lost seasons...

The pont is moot since the trade deadline is over. 

[THE PISTONS]

(11-23-2024, 09:51 AM)kevin Wrote: The pont is moot since the trade deadline is over. 

I'm talking more offseason.

The point is the Rams traded guys and drafted well and became a contender. They were as bad as us.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-20-2024, 08:25 PM)Wyche Wrote: Because ownership let football people run the show, finally.

BINGO

We can only hope and pray that happens here. You would think they'd wake up and smell the coffee.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-20-2024, 03:36 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So the Bengals have Higgins, Chase, and Hendrickson that are stars and would be worth a lot on the market.

We all see how great the Lions are. Well how did they get some of these players? A: By trading Stafford.

Lions gained:
QB Jared Goff
WR Jameson Williams (first round, 12th overall)
RB Jahmyr Gibbs (first round, 12th overall)
TE Sam LaPorta (second round, 34th overall)
DL Josh Paschal (second round, 46th overall)
DT Brodric Martin (third round, 96th overall)
DB Ifeatu Melifonwu (third round, 101st overall)

https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2023/5/1/23705974/matthew-stafford-jared-goff-trade-final-results-detroit-lions-players-accumulated

How good would the Bengals look if they traded Tee Higgins for a 2nd and 3rd Round pick and drafted LaPorta at TE and a CB or DT in the 3rd?

Instead, we're likely to lose Tee for a compensatory pick.

Maybe, it's better to trade these guys in lost seasons...

No one trading a 2nd and 3rd for Higgins bruh.
The more likely reality is Bengals got offered lower and Mike Brown decided it best to just let him walk for a comp instead.

It's the QBs who get the big returns.

Now, if you were talking about trading Burrow, I bet he'd bring a huge haul.

[Essex Johnson]

Worked out for KC trading Hill.

[kevin]

(11-23-2024, 10:35 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I'm talking more offseason.

The point is the Rams traded guys and drafted well and became a contender. They were as bad as us.

Offseason.  Joe Burrow locked in long term.  And when did Joe Burrow start lookin good ?  When they added his LSU WR Chase.  In 2025 they need to lock in Chase long term.  You build the team around Burrow to Chase.   The rest of the team, I do not know.  I'm not in Bengals Front Office so I don't know the contracts upside down and sideways.  All I know is when Bengals take the field in 2025, they better have Burrow and Chase locked in long term, and no nonsense of maybe franchise tagging Chase in 2026.  Both Burrow and Chase locked in Long Term for many years to come.  You wait decades to get a Burrow or a Chase in the draft, and when you do, you want their possible Hall Of Fame careers right here.