Too old, too expensive for us

[Speedy Thomas]

Well well, look who popped up at #9 on PFF's list of top free agent signings of 2024.

9. G KEVIN ZEITLER, DETROIT LIONS

How does one of the NFL’s best offensive lines remain elite? Adding a player like Zeitler, who has slotted in seamlessly at right guard. In 2024, Zeitler has recorded career highs in PFF overall grade (90.0) and PFF run-blocking grade (88.7) while still posting a 97.8 pass-blocking efficiency. Zeitler sits as the third-best guard in PFF overall grade this year and is playing at a level transcendent to his one-year, $6 million contract.

Hindsight is always 20-20, but how many of this year's close losses go the other way if the Bengals had invested $6 million in PFF's third best guard?

For that matter, would Super Bowl 56 have turned out differently if it was Zeitler and not D'Ante Smith blocking Aaron Donald on that last play?

[SunsetBengal]

Yet another great player that the Bengals failed to retain, simply because they didn't see the "value" of investing in that position...

[WeezyBengal]

Pick him up this off-season. Would be an immediate veteran upgrade that wont break that bank.

[*bengalfan74*]

(Yesterday, 12:07 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yet another great player that the Bengals failed to retain, simply because they didn't see the "value" of investing in that position...

Yes and it makes me sick 

[SunsetBengal]

(Yesterday, 12:44 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yes and it makes me sick 

Earl Pitts couldn't have said it better himself.. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(Yesterday, 12:00 PM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: Well well, look who popped up at #9 on PFF's list of top free agent signings of 2024.

9. G KEVIN ZEITLER, DETROIT LIONS

How does one of the NFL’s best offensive lines remain elite? Adding a player like Zeitler, who has slotted in seamlessly at right guard. In 2024, Zeitler has recorded career highs in PFF overall grade (90.0) and PFF run-blocking grade (88.7) while still posting a 97.8 pass-blocking efficiency. Zeitler sits as the third-best guard in PFF overall grade this year and is playing at a level transcendent to his one-year, $6 million contract.

Hindsight is always 20-20, but how many of this year's close losses go the other way if the Bengals had invested $6 million in  PFF's third best guard?

For that matter, would Super Bowl 56 have turned out differently if it was Zeitler and not D'Ante Smith blocking Aaron Donald on that last play?

Right

Just imagine if Joe had .5 seconds more to throw on a dozen plays. This year, last year, Super Bowl on and on.

[*bengalfan74*]

(Yesterday, 12:46 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Earl Pitts couldn't have said it better himself.. 

Wake up America Brown Family.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(Yesterday, 12:00 PM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: For that matter, would Super Bowl 56 have turned out differently if it was Zeitler and not D'Ante Smith blocking Aaron Donald on that last play?

Smith didn’t play in the SB. Spain is the one that got beat by Donald for the game winning sack.

[TecmoBengals]

(Yesterday, 12:46 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Earl Pitts couldn't have said it better himself.. 

I laughed, but you are totally dating many of us for being way too old with this one liner!

[*bfine32*]

Cleveland made him the highest paid Guard in the NFL and began their dynasty

[Nicomo Cosca]

Letting Zeitler go was definitely a mistake. He would have probably been a RoH type guy had he stayed here. Not to mention all the draft capital and bad contracts they’ve been through trying to replace him over the years.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(Yesterday, 12:00 PM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: Well well, look who popped up at #9 on PFF's list of top free agent signings of 2024.

9. G KEVIN ZEITLER, DETROIT LIONS

How does one of the NFL’s best offensive lines remain elite? Adding a player like Zeitler, who has slotted in seamlessly at right guard. In 2024, Zeitler has recorded career highs in PFF overall grade (90.0) and PFF run-blocking grade (88.7) while still posting a 97.8 pass-blocking efficiency. Zeitler sits as the third-best guard in PFF overall grade this year and is playing at a level transcendent to his one-year, $6 million contract.

Hindsight is always 20-20, but how many of this year's close losses go the other way if the Bengals had invested $6 million in  PFF's third best guard?

For that matter, would Super Bowl 56 have turned out differently if it was Zeitler and not D'Ante Smith blocking Aaron Donald on that last play?

Smith did not play in the SB.

[*bengalfan74*]

(Yesterday, 01:16 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Letting Zeitler go was definitely a mistake. He would have probably been a RoH type guy had he stayed here. Not to mention all the draft capital and bad contracts they’ve been through trying to replace him over the years.

There's a loonnnggg list of just mistakes the Brown family has made regarding interior O and D linemen retention back thru the years. Don't wanna pay them. And I remember LL posting a big read on it and how they spent just as much if not more money trying to put a band-aid on it for years to come. Not to mention hurt the team.

It was high end money when they balked. But year or two down the road it was like league average. But they don't learn.

[Speedy Thomas]

(Yesterday, 01:05 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Smith didn’t play in the SB. Spain is the one that got beat by Donald for the game winning sack.

Thanks.  So many shitty guards, hard to keep track.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(Yesterday, 01:29 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: There's a loonnnggg list of just mistakes the Brown family has made regarding interior O and D linemen retention back thru the years. Don't wanna pay them. And I remember LL posting a big read on it and how they spent just as much if not more money trying to put a band-aid on it for years to come. Not to mention hurt the team.

It was high end money when they balked. But year or two down the road it was like league average. But they don't learn.

It was about trying to replace JJo at CB. Man was that a brutal list of FAs and high draft picks.

I am all aboard bashing the Bengals FO, but I actually with bfine on this. I said it when it happened and I still believe it now... the Browns vastly overpaid Zeitler by making him the highest paid G in the league. A contract that neither the Browns nor the Giants wanted to see through with him. 

Remember nobody talked a ton about him in the 7 years between leaving us and this year. If I remember correctly, before this year his highest rated season at PFF was with us. So he spent 7 straight years being worse than he was with us, which was good but not great.

Now I think he would have been a good signing when the Ravens signed him, but there is a reason that after the Browns megadeal he had to sign for nearly half the annual value.

[*bengalfan74*]

(Yesterday, 01:58 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: It was about trying to replace JJo at CB. Man was that a brutal list of FAs and high draft picks.

I am all aboard bashing the Bengals FO, but I actually with bfine on this. I said it when it happened and I still believe it now... the Browns vastly overpaid Zeitler by making him the highest paid G in the league. A contract that neither the Browns nor the Giants wanted to see through with him. 

Remember nobody talked a ton about him in the 7 years between leaving us and this year. If I remember correctly, before this year his highest rated season at PFF was with us. So he spent 7 straight years being worse than he was with us, which was good but not great.

Now I think he would have been a good signing when the Ravens signed him, but there is a reason that after the Browns megadeal he had to sign for nearly half the annual value.

Thanks

I get it with Zeitler and how he wasn't worth the top dawg money he wanted. Still, the Bengals F.O. is notorious in not wanting to pay lineman upper 1/3 money back thru the years. And many other positions/players.

And it has hurt us....sometimes very badly.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(Yesterday, 02:07 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Thanks

I get it with Zeitler and how he wasn't worth the top dawg money he wanted. Still, the Bengals F.O. is notorious in not wanting to pay lineman upper 1/3 money back thru the years. And many other positions/players.

And it has hurt us....sometimes very badly.

When he signed for $12m/yr there were only 6 guards making at least $10m/yr. The 10th highest paid guard was making $8.5m/yr. The interesting thing is the top 4 highest paid guards of 2017? 3 of the 4 got paid that offseason and not a single one of the 4 finished their contracts on the teams they signed them with.

If Zeitler signed for $9-10m/yr, I would have wanted the Bengals to match it and would have been upset if they didn't (he ended up years later signing with the Ravens for $7.5m/yr and we certainly should have got him then). But 20-33% higher than that was a severe overpay and you can't make a habit of trying to outspend shitty teams for good-not-great talent. It'd be like getting in a bidding match with the Jags over Christian Kirk in 2022 or bidding against the Raiders for Christian Wilkins this year.

Ultimately the problem wasn't that we didn't re-sign Zeitler for way too much money, it's that we half-assed (or even quarter-assed) the job at replacing him. We didn't draft or sign a single competent G and instead just put a 2nd year UDFA with 10 career snaps of offensive experience as the starter.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(Yesterday, 12:46 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Earl Pitts couldn't have said it better himself.. 

Wake up Amurica!

[3wt]

(Yesterday, 01:16 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Letting Zeitler go was definitely a mistake. He would have probably been a RoH type guy had he stayed here. Not to mention all the draft capital and bad contracts they’ve been through trying to replace him over the years.

This is one of the consistently overlooked factors in our evaluating the small number of excellent players we let leave here.   

Others are poorly evaluating players' career arcs, pre-determining that a player is too old, undervaluing positions in the interior of the field on offense and defense (IOL, IDL, Safeties) and poorly evaluating players with "upside" versus players whose performance indicates a high floor (i.e. Marcus Hardison versus Grady Jarett; and Jackson Carmen versus Creed Humphrey)

Honestly it feels sometimes like they use a Quija board to make their picks...

[SunsetBengal]

(Yesterday, 03:37 PM)3wt Wrote: This is one of the consistently overlooked factors in our evaluating the small number of excellent players we let leave here.   

Others are poorly evaluating players' career arcs, pre-determining that a player is too old, undervaluing positions in the interior of the field on offense and defense (IOL, IDL, Safeties) and poorly evaluating players with "upside" versus players whose performance indicates a high floor (i.e. Marcus Hardison versus Grady Jarett; and Jackson Carmen versus Creed Humphrey)

Honestly it feels sometimes like they use a Quija board to make their picks...

You can't have a fundamentally strong football team without being strong at the fundamental positions of blockers and tacklers/