Pair of Mocks to consider

[SunsetBengal]

It's early, the positioning will be fluid as we wade our way through bowl season, the all star games and culminate with the Senior Bowl, Combine and Pro Days. I'm still relatively unfamiliar with many of the players past the top 100 picks, but just for fun which one would you prefer?

       

[Whatever]

I would probably have to say the first one, though 8-10 years from now the second may be better if Warren develops into that Kelce type TE for Joe. Pass rush gets addressed early with Williams and Walker. I like Taylor a lot. Roberts might have a chance to play if they only replace one of the G's. And RB3 and T4 get addressed with depth fills late.

The second might have more appeal depending on what happens with Tee(or replacing him). You're never going to regret giving Burrow more quality weapons in the pass game.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-19-2024, 01:30 PM)Whatever Wrote: I would probably have to say the first one, though 8-10 years from now the second may be better if Warren develops into that Kelce type TE for Joe.  Pass rush gets addressed early with Williams and Walker.  I like Taylor a lot.  Roberts might have a chance to play if they only replace one of the G's.  And RB3 and T4 get addressed with depth fills late.  

The second might have more appeal depending on what happens with Tee(or replacing him).  You're never going to regret giving Burrow more quality weapons in the pass game.

Yeah, I liked having both Edge and DT fall like that in the 1st one. However, the more I watch of Warren, the more I remember how comfortable and fluid the offense looked with Eric All on the field for that part of the season. Image having All and Warren in on the same sets??

[*ochocincos*]

(12-19-2024, 12:55 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's early, the positioning will be fluid as we wade our way through bowl season, the all star games and culminate with the Senior Bowl, Combine and Pro Days. I'm still relatively unfamiliar with many of the players past the top 100 picks, but just for fun which one would you prefer?

I would probably get a Warren jersey the second he was drafted lol.
Really like that dude.

I like both mocks depending on how FA played out.

I feel the first one helps try to get the defense back at least to decent faster though if they don't add much defense in FA.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-19-2024, 02:01 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I would probably get a Warren jersey the second he was drafted lol.
Really like that dude.

I like both mocks depending on how FA played out.

I feel the first one helps try to get the defense back at least to decent faster though if they don't add much defense in FA.

I didn't do any trades, just let the board fall as it would. I just wish the scouting reports were in for more players, so that I can make more informed choices after the 3-4th round.

Edit: The more that I look at them, the more I am sold on the 2nd one. Adding 4 hard-nosed players to the offense like that can lead to a new identity being physical, rather than finesse going forward.

[puddycat]

Mykel Williams is Miles Murphy all over again. Kaylon Allen is a Najee Harris who doesn't block for his QB.

I like your second draft better. Every player has performed in college and looks like they love the game. The ceiling might be lower, but the floor seems much higher. It also would require getting an edge in free agency.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-20-2024, 02:43 AM)puddycat Wrote: Mykel Williams is Miles Murphy all over again. Kaylon Allen is a Najee Harris who doesn't block for his QB.

I like your second draft better.  Every player has performed in college and looks like they love the game.  The ceiling might be lower, but the floor seems much higher.  It also would require getting an edge in free agency.

I think so, as well. When I saw how well the offense functioned with Eric All in the game, and how comfortable Joe Burrow looked running the offense in those 2TE sets, I thought to myself "this is the future of the Bengals offense". When I saw Warren sitting there at 13, it was a no-brainer to jump on another gifted skill position player that truly embraces the physical side of playing football.

Don't sleep on those two OL picks, either. Jared Wilson went to UGA as a Linebacker who had ran a 10.91 in the 100M dash in HS. Now that he's grown to over 300#, he still runs a 4.8 40 and has that elite athleticism that everyone is screaming for in OL. Kanda at Guard is no slouch either, he's listed as a 4.9 guy in the 40 at over 320#. If the Bengals want to become younger, cheaper and more athletic at OL, those two are a great place to start. All I can say is that running the wide zone would now be a viable option.

[Goalpost]

My rank has Tyler Warren 6th overall. Mykel Williams 14th overall. The BPA in me says Warren. The argument for Williams is need, and, he probably hasn't reached his ceiling yet either.

[kalibengal]

(12-19-2024, 01:41 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yeah, I liked having both Edge and DT fall like that in the 1st one. However, the more I watch of Warren, the more I remember how comfortable and fluid the offense looked with Eric All on the field for that part of the season. Image having All and Warren in on the same sets??

Do we even know if All will be back anytime in future ? He reinjured the same knee that he had injured in college
I would like to see them take  TE in top 3 rounds and hopefully All is back and keep Gisecki as our slot TE/Wr dude 

[SunsetBengal]

(12-20-2024, 01:30 PM)kalibengal Wrote: Do we even know if All will be back anytime in future ? He reinjured the same knee that he had injured in college
I would like to see them take  TE in top 3 rounds and hopefully All is back and keep Gisecki as our slot TE/Wr dude 

I would imagine that we likely won't hear anything about the status of his recovery for at least a few more months.

[Whatever]

(12-20-2024, 01:36 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I would imagine that we likely won't hear anything about the status of his recovery for at least a few more months.

Sadly, with All's injury history, I just don't think he can truly be counted on.  Nice to have when healthy, but you can't rely on him being healthy.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

I like the thinking on both, but am not a huge fan of Williams. And Walker is a guy who played himself out of Rd1. But he'd be tough to pass up in Rd 2.

When I do a mock I usually have a FA outcome in my head. Who did we retain (Tee, BJ Hill, Gesicki, Hilton, Ford, ADG, T. Brown, etc) and where did we add (IOL, DT DE, etc).

The mocks where we retain Tee, BJ, Gesicki, and add at least 1 IOL are the ones that looked the best to me.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

   



That would ne 2 IOL + BJ, & Tee in FA but not Gesicki. 

[SunsetBengal]

(12-20-2024, 09:34 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: That would ne 2 IOL + BJ, & Tee in FA but not Gesicki. 

Where's the OL? We need some homegrown OL...

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(12-20-2024, 09:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Where's the OL? We need some homegrown OL...

Free agency. Like I said. 2 IOL, Tee, and BJ Hill back, but not Gesicki....Warren + defense in the draft.

[*bengalfan74*]

I want both the lines fixed first and foremost, bar none. IMHO that is our BIGGEST problem. I feel we need to get free agent Oline and draft Dline. But I'm not opposed to free agent Dline as well.

The flashy players are secondary to me. FIX THE LINES

[Luvnit2]

(12-19-2024, 02:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I didn't do any trades, just let the board fall as it would. I just wish the scouting reports were in for more players, so that I can make more informed choices after the 3-4th round.

Edit: The more that I look at them, the more I am sold on the 2nd one. Adding 4 hard-nosed players to the offense like that can lead to a new identity being physical, rather than finesse going forward.

I was watching Ravens and Steelers and thoughts came of how we are not a physical football team. I like the second draft as I love Warren.  I think he can be a great TE, FB and would change our offense for the better.

I think we will end up drafting around 16 to 18 in round 1. I hope Warren is there for us in round 1.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-22-2024, 02:53 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I was watching Ravens and Steelers and thoughts came of how we are not a physical football team. I like the second draft as I love Warren.  I think he can be a great TE, FB and would change our offense for the better.

I think we will end up drafting around 16 to 18 in round 1. I hope Warren is there for us in round 1.

I ran likely 20+ sims before the two mocks that I posted in the OP, about 50% of the time Warren wasn't there at pick #13. I know that the draft rankings are fluid and there will be some meteoric rises to the top as usual, but the Bengals also need another plan if Warren isn't there.

I mean the team may not even see Warren as worthy of their 1st round pick, I just really liked what I saw from the offense with an aggressive, dynamic TE on the field those few weeks that Eric All was in the lineup.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(12-22-2024, 03:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I ran likely 20+ sims before the two mocks that I posted in the OP, about 50% of the time Warren wasn't there at pick #13. I know that the draft rankings are fluid and there will be some meteoric rises to the top as usual, but the Bengals also need another plan if Warren isn't there.

I mean the team may not even see Warren as worthy of their 1st round pick, I just really liked what I saw from the offense with an aggressive, dynamic TE on the field those few weeks that Eric All was in the lineup.

Agree on both counts. 

I am one who prioritizes fixing the lines (IOL, DE, DT) above all else. But that TE1/WR3 spot is still troublesome as well. 

Going into FA, this is what it will look like: 

1. IOL: 
Signed: Karras ($6.3), Cappa ($10.25), Volson ($1.26), Lee ($985k), Stueber ($980). 
FA: Ford (OT/G). 

We have bodies, just need upgrades. No one really 1st round worthy, but 2nd on a posdibility. Good FA class with RG & LG options, though some coming off injury (Danieks, Fries, Banks).

Cutting Cappa can save us around $8 mill. 

2. DE
Signed: Hendrickson ($18.67), Hubbard ($11.6), Murphy ($3.43), C. Johnson ($995k). 
FA: Ossai, C. Sample 

Again, we have a decent amount of bodies, but we desperately need upgrades. Letting Hubbard go/renegotiating could save $$. Release nets over $9 mil. Draft has more high end OLB/Esge types high than true DEs. Scourton is about it in round 1, but more there in Rd 2-4 (Tuimoloau, Sawyer, Burch, etc.). No real big ticket game wrecker FA DEs out there. 

I think we need 2 here between FA and draft. Johnson OK as the 5th guy. Hendrickson as 1st. We won't cut Murphy yet. But he is #4 at best. We need 2 starter level guys. I'd cut Hubbard. 

3. DT/NT 
Signed: Rankins ($11.5), Jenkins ($1.79), Jackson ($1.27). 
FA: BJ Hill, Tufele

If we cut Rankins to save cap ($9.5 mil), we are down to two bodies. There are some OK-ish DTs out there, but no real stud guys who are dominant. BJ Hill is a top 5 DT FA. A couple DTs seem like good ideas and likely to be available mid teens (Grant, Nolen, Harmon). I don't like the DR depth as much, but there are some decent Rd2/3/4 guys: Walker, T. Williams, Robinson, Collins. With a couple project types like Noeman-Lott. Also Turner, Sanders, & Stackhouse. 

I'd cut Rankins, which means we need 2-3 here between FA & draft. 

4. WR 
Signed: Chase ($21.8), Iosivas ($1.07), Burton ($1.3), C. Jones ($1.2), I. Williams ($960k). 
FA: Higgins 

Without Tee, WR starts to look like DE does now. With him locked up, we can either ride with what we have or maybe try to get a slot guy. Without him, we need a legit WR2 or high draft pick. 

5. TE
Signed: D. Sample ($2.75), All ($1.16), McLachlan ($1.0)
FA: Gesicki, Hudson, Grandy

With All's injury history and McLachlan's inactive streak, that does not look promising to me. Need at least 2. With one being a two way guy. Gesicki/Hudson are pass catchers and Sample/Grandy blockers.

Our TE petsonnel gives away the play too often.
------------

To sum: 
1) IOL = 2 
2) DE = 2 
3) DT = 2-3 
4) WR = 1-2 
5) TE = 1-2
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8-11 guys from our top end needs. Be it draft, bew FAs, or retaining our own FAs (Tee, BJ, Gesicki, etc).

And we have not even gotten to level 2 needs (CB, S, LB, PK, RB/OT depth). We could use some upgrades  but the starters are either goid or passable-ish). 

[Luvnit2]

(12-22-2024, 03:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I ran likely 20+ sims before the two mocks that I posted in the OP, about 50% of the time Warren wasn't there at pick #13. I know that the draft rankings are fluid and there will be some meteoric rises to the top as usual, but the Bengals also need another plan if Warren isn't there.

I mean the team may not even see Warren as worthy of their 1st round pick, I just really liked what I saw from the offense with an aggressive, dynamic TE on the field those few weeks that Eric All was in the lineup.

My guess is the Bengals rank players. Yes, a chance depending on where we draft, Warren is gone. How will Bengals rank need based on position? Of course, FA will impact need.

Today we have a ton of need at various positions. Will we sign Tee long term or sign and trade him? Will we cut Cappa, Rankins or Stone? If we do and do not sign their replacement in FA, then guard, DT (did we sign Bj Hill to a new deal), DT and safety become more important than TE.

I am interested to see how Warren measure in the NFL combine. He seems to play fast, but maybe he is not close to a Kelcie speed for example. 

Our draft position could also get worse or better depending on how we finish 2024. If we lose to Denver and Steelers, we may be in position for pick 10 or 11 versus 13. If we win out, we may be in 16 to 18 range.