They got it right with Mike

[*bfine32*]

(12-31-2024, 01:32 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Completely different situation and different position.

Just wait and see.

How are the situations "completely different"? Both tore a Right Knee ACL in college and then again in the pros. Unsure I'd classify that as completely different. 

Of course, we'll "wait and see", but my opinion is the propensity is there to reinjure the knee. I hope I'm wrong, but hope is a poor strategy. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Feel like this is a yearly situation on the board...
Last year there were Hudson truthers out there saying he was our TE1.
The year before that we "needed" to keep Hurst.
The year before that keeping Uzomah was a must.

A lot of mediocre TEs that Burrow makes look above average. We do need to actually get some young TEs so they can stick around for a handful of years in a row (and hopefully both block AND catch rather than exclusively one or the other) but Gesicki is more of the same that we've had. Quite replaceable by any semi-competent WR3 catching passes from Burrow as he's exclusively a pass catcher himself.

Pay Chase and if you get a legitimate pro bowl level blocking and catching TE, pay him too... but everyone else needs to be cycling through as inexpensive youth and we need to trust Burrow to be able to elevate them. He's done it for 4 straight TEs now and even Yoshi is closing in on 500 yards this season a year after he made even Trenton Irwin put up >300 yards in a season with some people on here thinking he was an actual WR talent rather than a PS guy catching passes from Burrow. That's our Austin Collies/Jacob Tammes/Coby Fleeners/Donnie Averys that Peyton Manning would play with, elevate, and then move on to let someone else pay them based on Peyton Manning QB numbers (because those teams didn't have Peyton Manning).

[*ochocincos*]

(12-31-2024, 02:15 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Feel like this is a yearly situation on the board...
Last year there were Hudson truthers out there saying he was our TE1.
The year before that we "needed" to keep Hurst.
The year before that keeping Uzomah was a must.

A lot of mediocre TEs that Burrow makes look above average. We do need to actually get some young TEs so they can stick around for a handful of years in a row (and hopefully both block AND catch rather than exclusively one or the other) but Gesicki is more of the same that we've had. Quite replaceable by any semi-competent WR3 catching passes from Burrow as he's exclusively a pass catcher himself.

Pay Chase and if you get a legitimate pro bowl level blocking and catching TE, pay him too... but everyone else needs to be cycling through as inexpensive youth and we need to trust Burrow to be able to elevate them. He's done it for 4 straight TEs now and even Yoshi is closing in on 500 yards this season a year after he made even Trenton Irwin put up >300 yards in a season with some people on here thinking he was an actual WR talent rather than a PS guy catching passes from Burrow. That's our Austin Collies/Jacob Tammes/Coby Fleeners/Donnie Averys that Peyton Manning would play with, elevate, and then move on to let someone else pay them based on Peyton Manning QB numbers (because those teams didn't have Peyton Manning).

The thing is nowadays TEs are not selected to the Pro Bowl because of their blocking. It's just their receiving production.
While these TEs like McBride, Kelce, and Bowers are blocking 250+ reps, it's always the guys who get the most yards/TDs that get the votes.
But none of these guys are "stud" blockers.

There are some guys in the draft that I would love to have that can block while being great pass catchers.
But if the Bengals don't want to invest an early draft pick in one, I'm game for bringing back Gesicki and having him continue to serve the big receiver role.
It would be nice if they would use him more as a blocker, but they seem to like Sample and other guys for that.

Can't really factor Erick All too much into the equation unless/until the team gets a good feel on his recovery come Spring time heading into FA/draft.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-31-2024, 03:38 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The thing is nowadays TEs are not selected to the Pro Bowl because of their blocking. It's just their receiving production.
While these TEs like McBride, Kelce, and Bowers are blocking 250+ reps, it's always the guys who get the most yards/TDs that get the votes.
But none of these guys are "stud" blockers.

I never said stud blocker, I just want one that can do both even if he's just merely a competent blocker to go with being a good catcher. Present that threat and uncertainty. I just don't want a TE who defenses can be like "okay, he's a 95% blocker and 5% catcher so we can play him as a blocker" or vice versa. If Sample is on the field he's almost certainly blocking. If Gesicki is on the field he's almost certainly running a route. I want guys the defenses have to guess at. It's the same reason why I hate playing out of the shotgun so much or when we were playing so damn much out of an empty backfield, or how little we run play action. Don't make the defense's jobs easier and more streamlined. Pretty much everyone in the NFL can run fast and jump high, the difference really comes when you force them to think before and while they run fast or jump high. That mental processing will slow guys down even if it's only a fraction of a second and I feel like far too often we don't force defenses to think.

I also never said actual Pro Bowler because there's a bunch of bad players that become Pro Bowlers because of name recognition, injuries, and opt-outs. I said "pro bowl level" as in a guy people think about and go yeah he's at that level if it weren't a dumb system. Just like if I asked for a pro bowl level QB I am clearly not asking for Tyler Huntley even though he currently has the same number of Pro Bowls as Joe Burrow. Lol

[*ochocincos*]

(12-31-2024, 04:08 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I never said stud blocker, I just want one that can do both even if he's just merely a competent blocker to go with being a good catcher. Present that threat and uncertainty. I just don't want a TE who defenses can be like "okay, he's a 95% blocker and 5% catcher so we can play him as a blocker" or vice versa. If Sample is on the field he's almost certainly blocking. If Gesicki is on the field he's almost certainly running a route. I want guys the defenses have to guess at. It's the same reason why I hate playing out of the shotgun so much or when we were playing so damn much out of an empty backfield, or how little we run play action. Don't make the defense's jobs easier and more streamlined. Pretty much everyone in the NFL can run fast and jump high, the difference really comes when you force them to think before and while they run fast or jump high. That mental processing will slow guys down even if it's only a fraction of a second and I feel like far too often we don't force defenses to think.

I also never said actual Pro Bowler because there's a bunch of bad players that become Pro Bowlers because of name recognition, injuries, and opt-outs. I said "pro bowl level" as in a guy people think about and go yeah he's at that level if it weren't a dumb system. Just like if I asked for a pro bowl level QB I am clearly not asking for Tyler Huntley even though he currently has the same number of Pro Bowls as Joe Burrow. Lol

Sorry, you said, "...if you get a legitimate pro bowl level blocking and catching TE, pay him too"
I interpreted that as Pro Bowl blocker and Pro Bowl catcher.
What is "Pro Bowl level" if not actually making Pro Bowl or being the first or second alternate or so?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-31-2024, 05:10 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Sorry, you said, "...if you get a legitimate pro bowl level blocking and catching TE, pay him too"
I interpreted that as Pro Bowl blocker and Pro Bowl catcher.
What is "Pro Bowl level" if not actually making Pro Bowl or being the first or second alternate or so?

Nah, just an overall package that is pro bowl level. I probably could have typed that clearer. I think wanting both of those abilities to each be pro bowl level would pretty much limit it to "if we have George Kittle". Lol... not sure anyone else would fit that bill.

I don't know, somewhere above the level of above average. Think pre-back injury Jermaine Gresham... but catching passes from Burrow rather than Dalton, and not being asked to block Cameron Wake 1-on-1 all game. (Joe Burrow finished behind Jayden Daniels in Pro Bowl votes just to show how silly the actual Pro Bowl is vs pro bowl level as an idea.)

[*ochocincos*]

(12-31-2024, 05:30 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Nah, just an overall package that is pro bowl level. I probably could have typed that clearer. I think wanting both of those abilities to each be pro bowl level would pretty much limit it to "if we have George Kittle". Lol... not sure anyone else would fit that bill.

I don't know, somewhere above the level of above average. Think pre-back injury Jermaine Gresham... but catching passes from Burrow rather than Dalton, and not being asked to block Cameron Wake 1-on-1 all game.

Those guys are few and far between though, and they're getting taken earlier and earlier in the draft as teams prioritize good TEs more.


Here are the Top 15 TEs in receiving yards, the bolded being taken after Rd 3:
Bowers (1st rd - 2024)
McBride (2nd rd - 2022)
Kittle (5th rd - 2017)
Smith (3rd rd - 2017)
Kelce (3rd rd - 2013)
Henry (2nd rd - 2016)
Kraft (3rd rd - 2023)
LaPorta (2nd rd - 2023)
Andrews (3rd rd - 2018)
Ertz (2nd rd - 2013)
Otton (4th rd - 2022)
Gesicki (2nd rd - 2018)
Pitts (1st rd - 2021)
Freiermuth (2nd rd - 2021)
Njoku (1st rd - 2017)

Only two dudes taken on Day 3/UDFA who are even in Top 15, only one who is actually in Top 10.


If Bengals want a draft pick to hit at TE, it's probably in their best interest to get one within the first 3 rounds.

[*bfine32*]

(12-31-2024, 05:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Those guys are few and far between though, and they're getting taken earlier and earlier in the draft as teams prioritize good TEs more.


Here are the Top 15 TEs in receiving yards, the bolded being taken after Rd 3:
Bowers (1st rd - 2024)
McBride (2nd rd - 2022)
Kittle (5th rd - 2017)
Smith (3rd rd - 2017)
Kelce (3rd rd - 2013)
Henry (2nd rd - 2016)
Kraft (3rd rd - 2023)
LaPorta (2nd rd - 2023)
Andrews (3rd rd - 2018)
Ertz (2nd rd - 2013)
Otton (4th rd - 2022)
Gesicki (2nd rd - 2018)
Pitts (1st rd - 2021)
Freiermuth (2nd rd - 2021)
Njoku (1st rd - 2017)

Only two dudes taken on Day 3/UDFA who are even in Top 15, only one who is actually in Top 10.


If Bengals want a draft pick to hit at TE, it's probably in their best interest to get one within the first 3 rounds.

Luckily one will be playing in the Fiesta Bowl tonight

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(12-31-2024, 02:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: How are the situations "completely different"? Both tore a Right Knee ACL in college and then again in the pros. Unsure I'd classify that as completely different. 

Of course, we'll "wait and see", but my opinion is the propensity is there to reinjure the knee. I hope I'm wrong, but hope is a poor strategy. 

Because one is smaller, plays a position where you're hit a ton more and a position where you need to do A LOT more cutting and accelerating/decelerating: yes the injury is the same and they play the same sport, but the same injuries affect different people and different positions, differently.

That's all I meant: the only thing you can go on for precedent is recovery time, but how strong one player is over recovery, that's hard to determine unless they have the same position and size (and even then, it may be different).

For all we know, the first surgery may have no been done as well as it could have (we don't know that of course, just spitballing), but I have faith All will return at full strength.

[puddycat]

I could see him going elsewhere. He's having a very Hayden Hurst-like season. Hurst "proved it" in Cincinnati to get a $7M contract in Carolina. Before him Uzomah left the Bengals for an $8M contact in NY. Joe makes receiving TEs look good.
OTOH, the Bengals need a good hands receiver. Some of this depends on the Tee Higgins situation; some depends on the forecast for All. I'd like to see him back.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-31-2024, 06:59 PM)puddycat Wrote: I could see him going elsewhere.  He's having a very Hayden Hurst-like season.  Hurst "proved it" in Cincinnati to get a $7M contract in Carolina.  Before him Uzomah left the Bengals for an $8M contact in NY.  Joe makes receiving TEs look good.
OTOH, the Bengals need a good hands receiver.  Some of this depends on the Tee Higgins situation; some depends on the forecast for All. I'd like to see him back.

I'm not a fortune teller, but I'd guess that Mike Gesicki likes playing with Joe Burrow (just a hunch). Gesicki has been around long enough to know where he would like to play. If I'm a betting man, I'm betting that Gesickin re-signs with the Bengals.

[Bengalbug]

(12-31-2024, 01:20 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: He got hurt in what, week 8 this year?

Unless he has a setback, based on the current, "norms," I'd guess he'll be back by week 6.

This isn't the 90s or earlier anymore, I don't expect him to be out for an entire year, given the ACL turnarounds now.

I mean, Joe came back after 8 months, Amari Rodgers (albeit, an anomaly) came back after 6 months. I'd give All an extra 2 over Joe, then a month to get up to speed, which would be 11 months.

We'll see where he's at come the draft.

It was the second time he tore the ACL within 12 months. Recovery time is not 9-12 months. Likely looking at 16-18 months.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-31-2024, 11:15 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: It was the second time he tore the ACL within 12 months. Recovery time is not 9-12 months. Likely looking at 16-18 months.

Yeah, All has a very tough road in front of him.

[sandwedge]

(12-31-2024, 06:59 PM)puddycat Wrote: I could see him going elsewhere.  He's having a very Hayden Hurst-like season.  Hurst "proved it" in Cincinnati to get a $7M contract in Carolina.  Before him Uzomah left the Bengals for an $8M contact in NY.  Joe makes receiving TEs look good.
OTOH, the Bengals need a good hands receiver.  Some of this depends on the Tee Higgins situation; some depends on the forecast for All. I'd like to see him back.

Gesicki was a good TE before he got here though.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(12-31-2024, 11:15 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: It was the second time he tore the ACL within 12 months.  Recovery time is not 9-12 months.  Likely looking at 16-18 months.

My mistake then, all this time I thought it was the other ACL; not sure how I missed it ?‍♂️