Hoped for changes in 2025

[*pally*]

Seems like every thread is getting over taken by discussion of changes for next season so I thought I would start a new thread to consolidate those conversations

[ERIC1]

(12-31-2024, 01:40 PM)pally Wrote: Seems like every thread is getting over taken by discussion of changes for next season so I thought I would start a new thread to consolidate those conversations

8 additional scouts...a real GM... 1.50 hotdogs and 4 dollar beers

[*bengalfan74*]

The F.O. to take the trenches seriously. Pay for some damn O and D linemen you jerks.

[*bfine32*]

(12-31-2024, 01:54 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The F.O. to take the trenches seriously. Pay for some damn O and D linemen you jerks.

The sad thing is, we have

[Frank Booth]

(12-31-2024, 02:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The sad thing is, we have

they pay guys who they think they can get for at value(Blackburn value). They were only over paying players when Burrow was on the rookie contract

[ERIC1]

(12-31-2024, 02:06 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: the pay guys who they think they can get for at value(Blackburn value). They were only over paying players when Burrow was on the rookie contract

Did we not see kevin zeitler on detroits offensive line last night...along with dj reader on defense....and they seemed to be playing really well

[Frank Booth]

(12-31-2024, 03:20 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: Did we not see kevin zeitler on detroits offensive line last night...along with dj reader on defense....and they seemed to be playing really well

ok but the blackburns have these players at a certain price and value. If the player wants higher than their perceived blackburn value, they arent getting signed in cincy

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Upgrade the trenches with the right guys. As long as this gets done, I am happy with any other moves we make in 2025.

In the meantime, I am still hoping for a win against the stealers, if things fall our way, even better...

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Good idea. I will go.

I. Philosophical Changes

I don't like the way we play. On offense or defense. Generally, it is too predictable, too vanilla, and too soft. On offense, our TE personnel give away the play. And empty on 3rd/4th and short drives me nuts. So does passing on 1st & goal from inside the 5 on obvious pass sets.

On D, we need to be more aggreessive in coverage on 3rd downs, stop with allowing easy checkdown 1sts. We don't need 2 LBs on the field in obvious passing sets. And should move guys around more and blitz more from DBs. Hilton and Dax are both excellent in this regard, but wasted playing coverage only all the time. Plus, stop with the refusal to roster OLB/edge types. We need more speed to track down mobile QBs on 3rd down. 1/2 guys out of 5/6 DEs at least. He does not have to start, but situationally.

II. FO/Ownership/Coaches
I think Mike Brown should sell (he won't). Or at least get out of the way (he won't). Or at least allow us to compete and structure contracts better (more guaranteed money) so we can land quality FAs and or retain guys but minimize cap hits. Burrow, Chase, & Higgins aren't gonna be cut, so who cares?

Duke should get fired or get help. We are 30th in the league in drafting Pro-Bowlers. Get a GM and some scouts, FFS.

I think ZT, Lou, and Pollard should all be fired, but they won't be. But how many poor starts (1-11 over 6 years 1st two), boneheaded late game decisions (just kneel v Denver, let Joe try and get a first down vs Balt, why is Anthony on the field on 4th & 16 and no pass rush vs KC when Trey was eating their LT for lunch all game). Not to mention FG/Go calls and short yardage playcalling.

III. Roster
And I'd like to see us more aggressive in certain areas with the roster build.

The offense, despite Chase & Burrow setting records, is not elite. It's good, but flawed. I think 6th or 7th in scoring. That's not elite. Lock Chase & Tee up. But fix the guards. Cappa is no longer starter quality and Ford & Volson never have been. Don't count on bargain bin FA's or Day 3 picks to fix it. Sign at least one stud G in FA, if not two. If it is only 1, then a pick or perhaps a discounted guy coming off injury (Daniels, Fries, Banks), a Day 2 pick (Donovan Jackson). And invest in at least 1 more weapon for Joe. Be it bringing Gesicki back or a high-ish TE/WR3 pick. Or both. Moss is too expensive for RB2. I'd like some Thunder to go with Brown's lightning at RB2. Though a FA/late pick is fine. We have elite guys at QB1, WR1, and WR2 if Higgins is back. Chase Brown is a good RB1. Karras & OBJ are poor run blockers, but near elite pass protectors. And Mims is promising. If we have plus to excellent guard play (and can run block) and Joe has 1 more weapon (TE/WR3), this thing will be fearsome. Good enough to carry even a average D tonthe top of the mountain. Make it so.

We need eveything on D besides DE1. Better run defense, better pass rush (DE2 and DT), better coverage, better recognition, better tackling, more speed at LB, better safety play, and a legit CB1. It is too much for one year. Build the D back with picks, smart value FA signings, and jettisoning high paid guys who are not performing (Rankins, and Hubbard if no restructure). Stone & Pratt are right on the edge, but until we have an upgrade.... we may have to live with the status quo. We are aiming for league average in the short term while stockpiling young/cheap talent longer term. Keeping Hill and Hilton would be nice. As would some kind of decent DL signing.

But my first priority is turning the O into a juggernaught. With better IOL play and a consistent WR3/TE weapon, we are there.

Big FA signings: Higgins, FA guard
Big retention: Chase extension
Moderate FA retensions: Hill, Hilton, Gesicki
Cuts: Rankins, Cappa

Then swing back around & re-evaluate. I'd want enough $$ to get more significant help in the trenches. At least one more big/significant signing: OG/DT/DE. If I need to free more $$, I will.

Restructure/Cut: Hubbard, Moss
Depends on draft: Stone (Starks, Watts), Pratt (Campbell).
Low end/min retenstons possible: Ossai, ADG, Ford, T. Brown, Herbert, Hudson, C. Sample, Bachie.

Ideally, the only "hole" on O going into the draft would then be TE1/WR3. But Sample/Gesicki/All & Iosivas/Burton are both OK if we go another direction. Day 3 depth (RB, IOL) would be it, and we could focus on the D.

[Frank Booth]

(12-31-2024, 03:37 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: We are 30th in the league in drafting Pro-Bowlers.

Duke should go but thats a popularity contest, and bengals regularly get hosed from pro bowls. So that argument is flawed

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(12-31-2024, 02:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The sad thing is, we have

Yep. The judgement has sucked. I read somewhere we are top 5 in DL/OL spending. The issue is we have zero productive picks in the trenches now that Sam is in decline, and none on rookie deals (Mims could change that). And while we pay for FA's, we don't go top drawer, but overpay for OK/mediocre/good (Hubbard, BJ Hill, Rankins, Cappa, Karras, Stone, Moss, Pratt). A couple of those are OK if they are still above average players (Hill, Hilton, Karras), but the others, sadly, no longer are. 

Cut them, reinvest the savings in better players at fewer positions, and go draft to replace the highly paid starters who are playing at replacement level or below anyway. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(12-31-2024, 03:40 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Duke should go but thats a popularity contest, and bengals regularly get hosed from pro bowls. So that argument is flawed

Who on the team recently should have made a Pro-Bowl as a Bengal but did not? Other than Bates & Reader (who wasn't drafted), I cannot think of one. 

It isn't a perfect argument  but it is still a valid one. Lots of small market teams on there can make the same gripe and are ranked a lot higher. 

[J24]

If we resign Tee then I think it will be an easy off-season for us if not then it will be another rough one.

The positions we need to replace 3T, CB #1, RG, FS, and off ball LB. Ill have more on this on my first mock but if we can improve those positions then we will be in a good place.

[Frank Booth]

(12-31-2024, 03:52 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Who on the team recently should have made a Pro-Bowl as a Bengal but did not? Other than Bates & Reader (who wasn't drafted), I cannot think of one. 

It isn't a perfect argument  but it is still a valid one. Lots of small market teams on there can make the same gripe and are ranked a lot higher. 

It’s not a strong argument. It’s always very good players on small market teams who get the shaft. Fred Taylor I believe made the pro bowl only once or twice. That’s because he played in jacksonville

[Hammerstripes]

(12-31-2024, 01:54 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The F.O. to take the trenches seriously. Pay for some damn O and D linemen you jerks.

They've taken the O-line seriously, they paid good money for Brown, Karras and Cappa as well as a quick fix in Trent Brown and drafting Mims.

I didn't have an issue letting Reader go, I thought his injury was too much.  That being said, it sucks that we spent money on Rankins and then had him get a non football illness.  My only hope is we don't miss on guys.  They'll spend the money, but hopefully we hit.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-31-2024, 01:45 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: 8 additional scouts...a real GM... 1.50 hotdogs and 4 dollar beers

Those scouts would be a worthy investment, because the Bengals are currently failing to even look at established, proven talent already in the league. they seem to have these "rules of thumb", like not wanting to pay players on their 3rd contract, not wanting to entertain players approaching the age of 30 (never mind that trench players often play well into their 30s, if they were good to begin with..).

On another note, I don't think that those $4 beers are coming back any time soon. However, my brother in law got my wife and I giant, half gallon flasks that would tuck easily into the waist band and be concealed by a winter coat. I could sell $4 shots to all the fans around me!

[*pally*]

(12-31-2024, 03:20 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: Did we not see kevin zeitler on detroits offensive line last night...along with dj reader on defense....and they seemed to be playing really well

If I recall correctly, when Zeitler left the team in free agency for the Browns, we were all shocked at what the Brown's paid him.  We thought it was a massive overpayment.  When he became a free agent last season, his wife nixed any chance of him coming back to Cincinnati

[ERIC1]

(12-31-2024, 03:25 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: ok but the blackburns have these players at a certain price and value. If the player wants higher than their perceived blackburn value, they arent getting signed in cincy

I was agreeing with you..the blackburns better get some help with their oerceived value...zeitler...reader..bates..alone ..probably gets us 1-2 more wins this year ...and a playoff slot

[ERIC1]

(12-31-2024, 04:06 PM)J24 Wrote: If we resign Tee then I think it will be an easy off-season for us if not then it will be another rough one.

The positions we need to replace 3T, CB #1, RG, FS, and off ball LB. Ill have more on this on my first mock but if we can improve those positions then we will be in a good place.

Here we go...so if we dont resign tee higgins yet improve all the positions you suggest...we wont be in a good place?

[ERIC1]

(12-31-2024, 03:37 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Good idea. I will go.

I. Philosophical Changes

I don't like the way we play. On offense or defense. Generally, it is too predictable, too vanilla, and too soft. On offense, our TE personnel give away the play. And empty on 3rd/4th and short drives me nuts. So does passing on 1st & goal from inside the 5 on obvious pass sets.

On D, we need to be more aggreessive in coverage on 3rd downs, stop with allowing easy checkdown 1sts. We don't need 2 LBs on the field in obvious passing sets. And should move guys around more and blitz more from DBs. Hilton and Dax are both excellent in this regard, but wasted playing coverage only all the time. Plus, stop with the refusal to roster OLB/edge types. We need more speed to track down mobile QBs on 3rd down. 1/2 guys out of 5/6 DEs at least. He does not have to start, but situationally.

II. FO/Ownership/Coaches
I think Mike Brown should sell (he won't). Or at least get out of the way (he won't). Or at least allow us to compete and structure contracts better (more guaranteed money) so we can land quality FAs and or retain guys but minimize cap hits. Burrow, Chase, & Higgins aren't gonna be cut, so who cares?

Duke should get fired or get help. We are 30th in the league in drafting Pro-Bowlers. Get a GM and some scouts, FFS.

I think ZT, Lou, and Pollard should all be fired, but they won't be. But how many poor starts (1-11 over 6 years 1st two), boneheaded late game decisions (just kneel v Denver, let Joe try and get a first down vs Balt, why is Anthony on the field on 4th & 16 and no pass rush vs KC when Trey was eating their LT for lunch all game). Not to mention FG/Go calls and short yardage playcalling.

III. Roster
And I'd like to see us more aggressive in certain areas with the roster build.

The offense, despite Chase & Burrow setting records, is not elite. It's good, but flawed. I think 6th or 7th in scoring. That's not elite. Lock Chase & Tee up. But fix the guards. Cappa is no longer starter quality and Ford & Volson never have been. Don't count on bargain bin FA's or Day 3 picks to fix it. Sign at least one stud G in FA, if not two. If it is only 1, then a pick or perhaps a discounted guy coming off injury (Daniels, Fries, Banks), a Day 2 pick (Donovan Jackson). And invest in at least 1 more weapon for Joe. Be it bringing Gesicki back or a high-ish TE/WR3 pick. Or both. Moss is too expensive for RB2. I'd like some Thunder to go with Brown's lightning at RB2. Though a FA/late pick is fine. We have elite guys at QB1, WR1, and WR2 if Higgins is back. Chase Brown is a good RB1. Karras & OBJ are poor run blockers, but near elite pass protectors. And Mims is promising. If we have plus to excellent guard play (and can run block) and Joe has 1 more weapon (TE/WR3), this thing will be fearsome. Good enough to carry even a average D tonthe top of the mountain. Make it so.

We need eveything on D besides DE1. Better run defense, better pass rush (DE2 and DT), better coverage, better recognition, better tackling, more speed at LB, better safety play, and a legit CB1. It is too much for one year. Build the D back with picks, smart value FA signings, and jettisoning high paid guys who are not performing (Rankins, and Hubbard if no restructure). Stone & Pratt are right on the edge, but until we have an upgrade.... we may have to live with the status quo. We are aiming for league average in the short term while stockpiling young/cheap talent longer term. Keeping Hill and Hilton would be nice. As would some kind of decent DL signing.

But my first priority is turning the O into a juggernaught. With better IOL play and a consistent WR3/TE weapon, we are there.

Big FA signings: Higgins, FA guard
Big retention: Chase extension
Moderate FA retensions: Hill, Hilton, Gesicki
Cuts: Rankins, Cappa

Then swing back around & re-evaluate. I'd want enough $$ to get more significant help in the trenches. At least one more big/significant signing: OG/DT/DE. If I need to free more $$, I will.

Restructure/Cut: Hubbard, Moss
Depends on draft: Stone (Starks, Watts), Pratt (Campbell).
Low end/min retenstons possible: Ossai, ADG, Ford, T. Brown, Herbert, Hudson, C. Sample, Bachie.

Ideally, the only "hole" on O going into the draft would then be TE1/WR3. But Sample/Gesicki/All & Iosivas/Burton are both OK if we go another direction. Day 3 depth (RB, IOL) would be it, and we could focus on the D.

Oh please..our iffense is one of the best in the league..mike brown is not selling the team..we need more scouts..better player evaluation..a plan...zac taylr had this team in the superbowl a couple of years ago followed by an AFC championship game appearance...burrow missed half a season last year and the team was very competitive..I would agree...we need some new voices coaching the defensive and offensive line.
And with a plan..you dont need to be spending over 100 million on three played..burrow chase and higgins..I would not sign higgins to a long term contract because he cant stay healthy...