Shout out for Zac Taylor

[Luvnit2]

Many will trash him. I understand the concerns. For the record, Zac owns the record for most playoff wins with 5. He holds the record for best playoff win %, He is third for wins behind Marvin Lewis and Sam Wyche. ML has 131 wins and Wyche has 62 wins. It is likely ZT passes Sam in 2025 for most wins, and he will do so having coached less games.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/coaches.htm

This ZT could have quit after their 8th loss and very bad AFC record making playoffs a very slim possibility. They did not. It is hard to win 5 games in a row in the NFL, He did it again. I am disappointed we likely will miss the playoffs, but optimistic the FO sees the weaknesses (LG may be the biggest followed by safety) and will address them in FA and the draft.

I will predict ZT will soon have a winning record as a head coach after a disastrous beginning to his career due to poor talent in year 1 and Burrow's rookie year getting injured. Many may not agree, but I don't see ZT going anywhere and him getting us back to the Super Bowl sooner than later.

Congrats to ZT and the team, going from 4-8 to 9-8.

If the season is over later today, on to 2025.

[sandwedge]

I second this!

[NUGDUKWE]

A positive thread and I will start by giving Zac and co props by keeping the team involved and ending the season on a 5 game win streak. There are alot of positives with Zac and I'm fine with him back. But ultimately I still think he's bad at situational football and will cost us games at times with his poor decision making. Which that's a question if that will hold us back from winning a superbowl. Did he cost us games this year? I'd point to the 1st Ravens game going 3 straight runs in overtime committing to a 50+ field goal attempt. Most disappointing thing about that situation to me was him not taking ownership and saying they did call a pass and Burrow checked out of it. Only to see it was a pass where only Chase was in and he had a corner with safety over the top on him.

[NUGDUKWE]

Should say I only point that out because that's the difference between being in the playoffs and needing Denver to lose to backups.

[sandwedge]

(01-05-2025, 03:09 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: A positive thread and I will start by giving Zac and co props by keeping the team involved and ending the season on a 5 game win streak. There are alot of positives with Zac and I'm fine with him back. But ultimately I still think he's bad at situational football and will cost us games at times with his poor decision making. Which that's a question if that will hold us back from winning a superbowl. Did he cost us games this year? I'd point to the 1st Ravens game going 3 straight runs in overtime committing to a 50+ field goal attempt. Most disappointing thing about that situation to me was him not taking ownership and saying they did call a pass and Burrow checked out of it. Only to see it was a pass where only Chase was in and he had a corner with safety over the top on him.

I will still contend that Zac trusted McPherson to do his job. 50+ is not a big deal anymore, kickers are called upon these kicks all the time. Whether or not Zac gave Joe options we won't know. It wasn't a near miss or a doink off the posts, it was a shank and not even close.

[Bengalitis]

He perseveres.. through thick and thin...

likes:
aggressive play calling (risk it rather than take a knee)
has experience with losing seasons, and winning seasons + SB

dislikes:
still calls the offense plays
systemic lethargic season starts

[*bfine32*]

Zac is not perfect, but his players believe in him and play hard for him.

[sandwedge]

(01-05-2025, 03:16 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: He perseveres.. through thick and thin...

likes:
aggressive play calling (risk it rather than take a knee)
has experience with losing seasons, and winning seasons + SB

dislikes:
still calls the offense plays
systemic lethargic season starts

We were 6th in offense, so those calls must have been good when they are executed correctly?
I do agree with the lethargic starts, they need to end.

[Soonerpeace]

Zac’s not the problem. Lou is not the problem. They are missing on too many players in the draft and free agency. Myles Murphy and Dax Hill first rounders and little impact. The front office blew it with Chase as he’s gonna cost a lot more as will Trey. But you long timers I’m not telling you anything. Zac has the locker room and star players. Lou does too. I’ve been wrong Mike Brown is still running things that involve money & players.

But getting much better starts is paramount next year. Zac is to blame there.

[NUGDUKWE]

(01-05-2025, 03:14 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I will still contend that Zac trusted McPherson to do his job. 50+ is not a big deal anymore, kickers are called upon these kicks all the time. Whether or not Zac gave Joe options we won't know. It wasn't a near miss or a doink off the posts, it was a shank and not even close.

We do know if he gave him options. It was a single receiver route where they showed double coverage on Chase the only receiver. If Zac comes out after and says I just wanted to run and try the kick and he'll look at it in the future that's one thing. Don't say you did call a pass that Burrow checked out of but was the right decision to check out of. That is just not good. 

[NUGDUKWE]

(01-05-2025, 03:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Zac is not perfect, but his players believe in him and play hard for him.

This exactly. Zac has faults that we have to able to point out and it is concerning that he doesn't seem to be correcting them. But he kept the team fighting and Burrow is committed to the offense.

[NotBigzo]

There's far worse than Zac Taylor, that's for sure.

He needs to stick around. I wouldn't consider moving on from him unless his replacement was HOF caliber coach.

[KillerGoose]

(01-05-2025, 03:20 PM)sandwedge Wrote: We were 6th in offense, so those calls must have been good when they are executed correctly?
I do agree with the lethargic starts, they need to end.

This is kind of my gripe when it comes to fans complaining about playcalling. What exactly are you meaning? Like, the Baltimore Ravens game where they ran three times and settled for a long field goal. That's a fine gripe, I think. You can complain about something high level like that and I get it. However, when you have an offense as dangerous as Cincinnati and your position is "the players bail Zac out" then I need more context. The whole offensive operation is put together by Zac and Company. Everything. How Burrow responds to various coverages, how the routes are ran against different coverages. It's all the coaches. The players are executing that, and they are really good at it but if Zac was truly a bad playcaller or offensive coach we wouldn't be seeing the success they are having. It's somewhere in the middle. Is Zac a legendary offensive coach? No, he's not Andy Reid. Is Zac an awful offensive coach? No, he's not that either. He has ideas that work and is able to communicate them effectively. I think sometimes he takes an unorthodox approach to situations. A previous gripe was the lack of conflict plays like RPOs and play-action but that improved this year. 

Point being, he's a good coach both offensively and overall IMO. However, he will have some difficult decisions to make regarding his staff this off-season along with his approach to prevent a slow start. 

[phil413]

Good point, we owe him this much for a nice finish

[Luvnit2]

I do agree the slow starts need to end. On the other hand, it is a long a grueling season and ZT has his teams playing well in December and January. He seems to be the opposite of ML coached teams who started fast and then faded late in season and in playoffs.

ZT is not perfect, no HC is perfect and there is a reason head coaches in the NFL have short stints. I look at a guy like Mike Tomlin, 18 years as a HC and zero losing seasons, yet yesterday he made a huge mistake and did not punt in the first half on 4th and 1. They all make mistakes.

I do wish ZT would hire an OC. i also agree our drafts have to get better. One thing interesting about the draft is ESPN Matt Miller says in 2025 there are only 12 can't miss picks in round 1. If that is true in 2025 and also happened in past drafts, then a lot of teams will miss with their 1st round pick.

[NUGDUKWE]

(01-05-2025, 03:23 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Zac’s not the problem. Lou is not the problem. They are missing on too many players in the draft and free agency. Myles Murphy and Dax Hill first rounders  and little impact. The front office blew it with Chase as he’s gonna cost a lot more as will Trey. But you long timers I’m not telling you anything. Zac has the locker room and star players. Lou does too. I’ve been wrong Mike Brown is still running things that involve money & players.

But getting much better starts is paramount next year. Zac is to blame there.

They are part of the problem. Players coaches and the FO all have a role to play in where we are as a team.

[NUGDUKWE]

(01-05-2025, 03:44 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I do agree the slow starts need to end. On the other hand, it is a long a grueling season and ZT has his teams playing well in December and January. He seems to be the opposite of ML coached teams who started fast and then faded late in season and in playoffs.

ZT is not perfect, no HC is perfect and there is a reason head coaches in the NFL have short stints. I look at a guy like Mike Tomlin, 18 years as a HC and zero losing seasons, yet yesterday he made a huge mistake and did not punt in the first half on 4th and 1. They all make mistakes.

I do wish ZT would hire an OC. i also agree our drafts have to get better. One thing interesting about the draft is ESPN Matt Miller says in 2025 there are only 12 can't miss picks in round 1. If that is true in 2025 and also happened in past drafts, then a lot of teams will miss with their 1st round pick.

Alot of draft picks don't work out. Why you need to pay the ones that do.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-05-2025, 03:14 PM)sandwedge Wrote: 50+ is not a big deal anymore

LOL.. I have seen this take a couple times by people and it's so damn absurd I actually just sat down and did a bit of work on it.

Top 5 kickers in the NFL at 50+ in 2024 (81 total games): 61-72 (84.7%)
The rest of the NFL at 50+ in 2024 (431 total games): 121-189 (64.0%)

To put that in better scale.

The top 5 are attempting 0.89 50+ yard FGs per game and making 0.75 per game.
The rest of the NFL are attempting 0.44 50+ yard FGs per game and making 0.28 per game.

I don't know if maybe it's because we played the top-5 in 50+ in 4 games this year so our fans have a skewed idea of reality, or if it's because when they cut for highlights they don't generally show missed 50+ yarders or made 38 yarders unless they're with seconds left to go, or what, but this whole idea that 50+ yard FGs are just some simple gimmie in the NFL is nonsense.

McPherson was bad this year, but it doesn't change the fact that 50+ isn't "no big deal anymore". That's like saying having a QB Rating over 105, or throwing 35+ TDs, averaging at least 5.5 yards per carry as a RB, or catching a dozen TDs as a WR is no big deal anymore because the best can do it.

[NUGDUKWE]

(01-05-2025, 03:43 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: This is kind of my gripe when it comes to fans complaining about playcalling. What exactly are you meaning? Like, the Baltimore Ravens game where they ran three times and settled for a long field goal. That's a fine gripe, I think. You can complain about something high level like that and I get it. However, when you have an offense as dangerous as Cincinnati and your position is "the players bail Zac out" then I need more context. The whole offensive operation is put together by Zac and Company. Everything. How Burrow responds to various coverages, how the routes are ran against different coverages. It's all the coaches. The players are executing that, and they are really good at it but if Zac was truly a bad playcaller or offensive coach we wouldn't be seeing the success they are having. It's somewhere in the middle. Is Zac a legendary offensive coach? No, he's not Andy Reid. Is Zac an awful offensive coach? No, he's not that either. He has ideas that work and is able to communicate them effectively. I think sometimes he takes an unorthodox approach to situations. A previous gripe was the lack of conflict plays like RPOs and play-action but that improved this year. 

Point being, he's a good coach both offensively and overall IMO. However, he will have some difficult decisions to make regarding his staff this off-season along with his approach to prevent a slow start. 

My complaint with Zac has always mainly been situational football. He just doesn't do well with that and it's been consistently bad during his tenure with no noticeable improvements. That's the major red flag with him for me. But I do think he does things well and Burrow seems all in so I'm good and we will just see if we can at times overcome his mistakes.

[KillerGoose]

(01-05-2025, 03:54 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: My complaint with Zac has always mainly been situational football. He just doesn't do well with that and it's been consistently bad during his tenure with no noticeable improvements. That's the major red flag with him for me. But I do think he does things well and Burrow seems all in so I'm good and we will just see if we can at times overcome his mistakes.

I think there are some valid complaints here. The aforementioned Ravens game in OT, the San Fran game from a few years ago. Those are situations where you keep the ball in the hands of your elite QB and let him work for you IMO. I understand what he is doing, I think, when it comes to minimizing risk. The coaches have a high opinion of Evan and are just minimizing the risk to give Evan his shot. Obviously it didn't work out in those instances, but that is the thought process by my eyes.

The Broncos game, as another example. A 33 yard FG is a high probability make. I love the decision to do it on third down rather than fourth. He ran the ball a couple times when they got close and minimized the risk of something like a sack/pick. Cade York didn't convert it, but I have no issue with that decision.