Troy Walters

[XenoMorph]

(01-08-2025, 07:19 PM)jj22 Wrote: People are going to be upset that I bring this up but we have to talk.

Why does Walters get a pass? Many claim he is a great coach, but say Chase and Tee were no brainers when it comes to Tobin picks.

Now if Chase and Tee were no brainer picks, then where is the development of all these wide receivers we've drafted?

Why does he get a pass around here?

based on how our WRs are moving to open up when burrow scrambles i think hes doing an okay job

[Whatever]

(Yesterday, 10:37 AM)jj22 Wrote: We expected it from Pollack. Hobby, and Lou... Even though we acknowledge the talent and draft issues.

Lou literally has gotten 7 of our last 9 Day 1/2 picks for his defense.  

Hobby had a 1st, a 2nd, and 2 3rd's in his unit this year.  

Pollack got a 1st and 2nd, plus a ton of FA dollars.  Brown was a multi -time Pro Bowler when he came here and steadily regressed.  regressed.  Cappa regressed.  Collins regressed.  

[Essex Johnson]

(Yesterday, 10:35 AM)jj22 Wrote: We haven't had any practice squad players or UDFA develop either. We've seen development from late picks, UDFA, practice squad players on other positions. Oline, LB, CB, TE, DE....

yes we have Iosivas has improved each year and he was a 6th round pick... He had 6 TDs this year.    I also believe the blocking of the WRs has been very good (Chase and Higgins included) and that is something coaches can have an impact on since many of these receivers did not block in college at that degree..  You for sure are not blaming him for Jones and Burton, correct ?  WR coach is one of the areas we should be least concerned about.

[jj22]

(11 hours ago)Essex Johnson Wrote: yes we have Iosivas has improved each year and he was a 6th round pick... He had 6 TDs this year.    I also believe the blocking of the WRs has been very good (Chase and Higgins included) and that is something coaches can have an impact on since many of these receivers did not block in college at that degree..  You for sure are not blaming him for Jones and Burton, correct ?  WR coach is one of the areas we should be least concerned about.

I'm trying to find out why we have no WR after 4 years outside of Chase and Tee. Two receivers that came in as "no brainer picks" according to some given their talent and not real need to "develop" outside of experience and being pros. 

Now Yoshi is debatable. 

But guys. In theory in 6 years this Offense hasn't produced any receivers outside of the top 2 highly drafted players. Given those players it can be excused, but it should be legitimately discussed. Is that good? Are we ok with that? Isn't this worthy of discussion given we have to now break the bank on Higgins instead of a defensive star or to OG?

[jj22]

Well if anything this thread ends the Tobin critics point that claim the Chase and Tee picks were no brainers and he can't get credit for drafting them.

Interesting how one discussion can flip everyone's narrative.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(Yesterday, 10:54 AM)jj22 Wrote: I don't think Tee has developed. He is the same player he has always been.

Chase has always been a generational talent. 

And if you are going to take shots about "hot takes" then you may want to read the room. And maybe read some of the Tobin threads. 

(Yesterday, 12:48 PM)Whatever Wrote: Lou literally has gotten 7 of our last 9 Day 1/2 picks for his defense.  

Hobby had a 1st, a 2nd, and 2 3rd's in his unit this year.  

Pollack got a 1st and 2nd, plus a ton of FA dollars.  Brown was a multi -time Pro Bowler when he came here and steadily regressed.  regressed.  Cappa regressed.  Collins regressed.  

I wouldn't say OBJ has regressed: last year was a typical year and this year was the best of his career, per the numbers.

Cappa had a superb 2022 and hasn't really come back from that injury: I wouldn't say it's regression, I'd say he's just plain hurt.

Same with Collins: we picked up a forever-injured/hobbled Collins and he wasn't the player he once was.

Agreed on everyone else though.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-08-2025, 07:19 PM)jj22 Wrote: People are going to be upset that I bring this up but we have to talk.

Why does Walters get a pass? Many claim he is a great coach, but say Chase and Tee were no brainers when it comes to Tobin picks.

Now if Chase and Tee were no brainer picks, then where is the development of all these wide receivers we've drafted?

Why does he get a pass around here?

[jj22]

(10 hours ago)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote:



I wouldn't say OBJ has regressed: last year was a typical year and this year was the best of his career, per the numbers.

Cappa had a superb 2022 and hasn't really come back from that injury: I wouldn't say it's regression, I'd say he's just plain hurt.

Same with Collins: we picked up a forever-injured/hobbled Collins and he wasn't the player he once was.

Agreed on everyone else though.

ok how has he developed then? His route tree is the same, ability to separate hasn't changed.... No knock on Tee because this isn't but he is still the high end Wideout he was coming out. He hasn't developed to be some 1500 yard receiver for those who want to point to receiving stats.... 

[jj22]

(10 hours ago)rfaulk34 Wrote:

Not everyone but only have developed 2 receivers (and a possible) in 6 years should attract more of a critical eye.

Especially given the two receivers were already great / generational when drafted. 

[Whatever]

(10 hours ago)jj22 Wrote: ok how has he developed then? His route tree is the same, ability to separate hasn't changed.... No knock on Tee because this isn't but he is still the high end Wideout he was coming out. He hasn't developed to be some 1500 yard receiver for those who want to point to receiving stats.... 

Tee had a 4.13 RAS coming out.  People like to point out that he would've been a 1st round pick if he tested better...but he didn't test better because he has some real athletic limitations.  He was far from a slam dunk pick.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-08-2025, 10:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: PSA:  Yoshi was a 6th RD pick with 500 yards and 6 TDs,

IDC "how" he did it. That's production from a 6th rounder

Of all WRs drafted from rd4 on, since last year, Puka and Demario Douglas are clearly the front runners. 

Iosivas is; (26 WRs qualify being drafted from rd 4 and later and having at least 1yd receiving)
5th in targets
5th in receptions
5th in yds
12th in Y/R
1st in TDs
8th in Y/G
15th in catch% 
14th Y/Tar
7th in succ%

Y/R, catch% and Y/Tar, 7 guys ahead of him have <20 targets.



Looks like they didn't do too terrible on their late round WR selection. Only 3 guys were picked lower than him.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-08-2025, 07:19 PM)jj22 Wrote: People are going to be upset that I bring this up but we have to talk.

Why does Walters get a pass? Many claim he is a great coach, but say Chase and Tee were no brainers when it comes to Tobin picks.

Now if Chase and Tee were no brainer picks, then where is the development of all these wide receivers we've drafted?

Why does he get a pass around here?

Ja'Marr and Tee like Troy Walters evidently. Yoshi grew a ton this year as a WR. Charlie Jones is injured too much to judge.

I guess this is why he gets a pass.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(10 hours ago)jj22 Wrote: ok how has he developed then? His route tree is the same, ability to separate hasn't changed.... No knock on Tee because this isn't but he is still the high end Wideout he was coming out. He hasn't developed to be some 1500 yard receiver for those who want to point to receiving stats.... 

The numbers have already been posted, but the route tree is 100% more developed than it was in 2020, his ability to separate has always been fantastic (despite was his draft profile said) and he just moves and plays much better than he did when coming out.

He was never the blue-chip, guaranteed 1,200+ yard a year receiver that Chase was when coming out, thus anything he does close to Chase is absolutely a great thing.

Again, you're ignoring physical evidence (stats) to try and prove a point that has already been proven wrong: this thread is only continuing because you are keeping it going.

[WeezyBengal]

(9 hours ago)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: The numbers have already been posted, but the route tree is 100% more developed than it was in 2020, his ability to separate has always been fantastic (despite was his draft profile said) and he just moves and plays much better than he did when coming out.

He was never the blue-chip, guaranteed 1,200+ yard a year receiver that Chase was when coming out, thus anything he does close to Chase is absolutely a great thing.

Again, you're ignoring physical evidence (stats) to try and prove a point that has already been proven wrong: this thread is only continuing because you are keeping it going.

He runs the best dig route in football. 

[jj22]

(9 hours ago)WeezyBengal Wrote: He runs the best dig route in football. 

He always has

[jj22]

(9 hours ago)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: The numbers have already been posted, but the route tree is 100% more developed than it was in 2020, his ability to separate has always been fantastic (despite was his draft profile said) and he just moves and plays much better than he did when coming out.

He was never the blue-chip, guaranteed 1,200+ yard a year receiver that Chase was when coming out, thus anything he does close to Chase is absolutely a great thing.

Again, you're ignoring physical evidence (stats) to try and prove a point that has already been proven wrong: this thread is only continuing because you are keeping it going.

I wasn’t impressed with the 2more catches 20 more yards development mentioned in 4 years.

And you’ve helped keep the thread going.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(8 hours ago)jj22 Wrote: He always has

Ja'Marr ran every route much better this year though. 

Ja'Marr really improved into the best WR in the NFL, Tee has improved when he is not injured and Yoshi improved an insane amount 
this year. The more I think about it, Troy Walters has done a great job with his Receivers.

[jj22]

I’m consistent in my arguments. It’s those who spend the year complaining about our wideouts when Tee is injured and the offense gets shut down just to suddenly see no problem you have to side eye. Those who spend the year complaining about the D only having 1 player that would start on another team suddenly arguing Hobby and Lou got all this talent to work with that has some explaining to do.

[jj22]

Someone asked earlier in the thread if Walters gets credit for Chase and Tee and I think we got our answer.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(8 hours ago)jj22 Wrote: I’m consistent in my arguments. It’s those who spend the year complaining about our wideouts when Tee is injured and the offense gets shut down just to suddenly see no problem you have to side eye. Those who spend the year complaining about the D only having 1 player that would start on another team suddenly arguing Hobby and Lou got all this talent to work with that has some explaining to do.

I know Gesicki is not technically a WR but he needs to be brought back as he is the one dude I have some faith in being WR2 if Tee is hurt.

Yoshi improved a ton, but still has a lot more to do to become the answer in case Tee does leave which I don't find likely after Joe saying what
he has. Like I said, Charlie Jones has been hurt, that isn't Troy Walters fault. Improve the interior O-line so Joe has some more time while adding
another WR that can stay healthy and we can properly judge Troy. Right now, he sure doesn't seem like a problem to me.