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People are going to be upset that I bring this up but we have to talk.
Why does Walters get a pass? Many claim he is a great coach, but say Chase and Tee were no brainers when it comes to Tobin picks.
Now if Chase and Tee were no brainer picks, then where is the development of all these wide receivers we've drafted?
Why does he get a pass around here?
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(Yesterday, 07:19 PM)jj22 Wrote: People are going to be upset that I bring this up but we have to talk.
Why does Walters get a pass? Many claim he is a great coach, but say Chase and Tee were no brainers when it comes to Tobin picks.
Now if Chase and Tee were no brainer picks, then where is the development of all these wide receivers we've drafted?
Why does he get a pass around here?
Does Walters get credit for Higgins and Chase?
Higgins was drafted in 2020, when Walters was just an assistant WR coach.
Chase was a stud coming out of college and hit the ground running from the jump.
Tyler Boyd was pre-Walters as WR coach as well.
Iosivas does deserve credit putting up nearly 500 yards and 6 TDs as the 4th option in just his 2nd year in the league and coming in raw.
Other than that, Jones has been useless as a WR and Burton has had probably the worst season publicity-wise for Bengals WRs in the past decade+, and that includes the whole John Ross fiasco from Taylor's first year or two.
Coach will always look good if they got good players.
Until the players start underperforming as a whole unit does the coach get the spotlight on them.
Zac Taylor 2019-2020: 6 total wins
Zac Taylor 2021-2022: Double-digit wins each season, plus 5 postseason wins
Zac Taylor 2023: 9 wins despite losing Burrow half the season
Zac Taylor 2024: Started 1-4. Ended 9-8 but barely missed playoffs
Changes needed to do better in Sept/Oct moving forward.
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On the offensive side of the ball this track record is nearly as bad as the Dline.
TE Coach has developed TE's
RB coach has developed RB's
Walthers deserves equal scrutiny to the Defensive coaches and Pollack.
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(Yesterday, 07:27 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Does Walters get credit for Higgins and Chase?
Higgins was drafted in 2020, when Walters was just an assistant WR coach.
Chase was a stud coming out of college and hit the ground running from the jump.
Tyler Boyd was pre-Walters as WR coach as well.
Iosivas does deserve credit putting up nearly 500 yards and 6 TDs as the 4th option in just his 2nd year in the league and coming in raw.
Other than that, Jones has been useless as a WR and Burton has had probably the worst season publicity-wise for Bengals WRs in the past decade+, and that includes the whole John Ross fiasco from Taylor's first year or two.
Coach will always look good if they got good players.
Until the players start underperforming as a whole unit does the coach get the spotlight on them.
I figured people gave him credit for Chase and Tee since he hasn't faced the fury that the defensive coaches and Pollack has when it came to development. Yet everyone complains about the lack of ability to replace Tee and not having any wr3-6
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(Yesterday, 07:19 PM)jj22 Wrote: People are going to be upset that I bring this up but we have to talk.
Why does Walters get a pass? Many claim he is a great coach, but say Chase and Tee were no brainers when it comes to Tobin picks.
Now if Chase and Tee were no brainer picks, then where is the development of all these wide receivers we've drafted?
Why does he get a pass around here?
Haven't you heard? CBA rules strictly limit how much time players get to spend with coaches, therefore they are unable to work on any "developmental" coaching. The players must seek out and pay for that on their own, in their own time..
I get why the veteran players don't want to be forced to partake in extra offseason activities, as they need that time to let their bodies heal from the long, grueling season. But those younger guys need that serious technique work that their teams should be providing them with, particularly on OL and DL.
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It is hard to develop a Charlie Jones who has been injured great portion of his first 2 seasons.
Chase and Tee are both better receivers today than they were as rookies...in all aspects of their games. And if you ask them they would say that was due in part to Troy Walters
All hopes turn to next year
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Charlie Jones was an older prospect to begin with and can't stay healthy and when he was he wasn't lighting them up. Another wasted pick IMO.
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(Yesterday, 07:27 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Iosivas does deserve credit putting up nearly 500 yards and 6 TDs as the 4th option in just his 2nd year in the league and coming in raw.
Yoshi played 79% of the snaps on offense this year, the 6th most on the entire offense (Burrow, the IOL, and Chase are the only who played more).
He caught <60% of his targets from a QB who completed >70% of his attempts.
He broke 0 tackles and had a drop rate >8%.
His 1.9 YAC per reception was 177th/177.
If you care about PFF he was the 124th out of 132 WRs.
Yoshi was really really bad this year and his numbers were simply from the same thing as Auden Tate in 2019 where even a bad WR will put up SOME decent surface numbers so long as you ignore all the efficiency and effectiveness numbers and just keep feeding him volume. That's not improvement, that's just ignoring that playing him and throwing him the ball is not a good idea.
The only time he's worth an NFL roster spot is when we're inside our opponent's 10.
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So Walters gets the no talent to develop excuse? Why him and no one else?
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(Yesterday, 08:47 PM)jj22 Wrote: So Walters gets the no talent to develop excuse? Why him and no one else?
Because due to clauses in the CBA that tremendously limit the amount of time that NFL players can spend with coaches, they simply have no time to develop talent anymore. All that they can do is practice the scheme and game plan. Yep, you heard that right. No more little things like "tilt your head to the inside, right before you break to the outside" or "be sure to put your weight on the forward foot and step into the block". Nope, no sir, no more time for any of that nonsense, just straight 'schemin these days..
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(Yesterday, 07:29 PM)jj22 Wrote: I figured people gave him credit for Chase and Tee since he hasn't faced the fury that the defensive coaches and Pollack has when it came to development. Yet everyone complains about the lack of ability to replace Tee and not having any wr3-6
Iosivas is an ok WR3 if you consider him the 4th option.
He's not Boyd-level though.
Zac Taylor 2019-2020: 6 total wins
Zac Taylor 2021-2022: Double-digit wins each season, plus 5 postseason wins
Zac Taylor 2023: 9 wins despite losing Burrow half the season
Zac Taylor 2024: Started 1-4. Ended 9-8 but barely missed playoffs
Changes needed to do better in Sept/Oct moving forward.
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PSA: Yoshi was a 6th RD pick with 500 yards and 6 TDs,
IDC "how" he did it. That's production from a 6th rounder
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(Yesterday, 07:27 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Does Walters get credit for Higgins and Chase?
Higgins was drafted in 2020, when Walters was just an assistant WR coach.
Chase was a stud coming out of college and hit the ground running from the jump.
Tyler Boyd was pre-Walters as WR coach as well.
Iosivas does deserve credit putting up nearly 500 yards and 6 TDs as the 4th option in just his 2nd year in the league and coming in raw.
Other than that, Jones has been useless as a WR and Burton has had probably the worst season publicity-wise for Bengals WRs in the past decade+, and that includes the whole John Ross fiasco from Taylor's first year or two.
Coach will always look good if they got good players.
Until the players start underperforming as a whole unit does the coach get the spotlight on them.
Yoshi's improvement and work all came from outside the facility in the offseason away from the Bengals wr coaches.
Honestly, I don't think the wr coaches are bad at all, but that's based on the fact that they have the #1 wr & a top 10 (IMO) wr on the roster. I mean, how much playing time is the #3 or #4 option going to get? Burton, whom I was super hyped about coming out of college, clearly is his own worst enemy. Tough for me to blame a coach on a head case dude.
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(Yesterday, 10:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Iosivas is an ok WR3 if you consider him the 4th option.
He's not Boyd-level though.
No, but Gesicki is. Better, honestly, at this point.
Yoshi was a go to when they had a matchup mismatch or a personnel group on the field they could take advantage of in scheme, but I considered him wr #4 this season.
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(Yesterday, 10:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: PSA: Yoshi was a 6th RD pick with 500 yards and 6 TDs,
IDC "how" he did it. That's production from a 6th rounder
That is GREAT for a 2nd year 6th rounder.
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I still have hope for Yoshi.
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(Yesterday, 10:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: PSA: Yoshi was a 6th RD pick with 500 yards and 6 TDs,
IDC "how" he did it. That's production from a 6th rounder
Auden Tate was a 7th round pick with 575 yards in his 2nd year.
How he did it matters. It's why he never made another 53-man roster after we moved on from him.
Hell, John Ross put up a 500 yard season for us. HOW he did it mattered. The how always matters.
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Just going off the eye test I thought Yoshi somewhat improved throughout the season. He started making some tougher catches between the 20’s in big moments. I’m not fooling myself that he’ll be anything more than a 4th or 5th option in this offense (Chase Brown and Gesicki both had more targets and receptions), but he’s at the very least earning his roster spot.
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(Yesterday, 07:19 PM)jj22 Wrote: People are going to be upset that I bring this up but we have to talk.
Why does Walters get a pass? Many claim he is a great coach, but say Chase and Tee were no brainers when it comes to Tobin picks.
Now if Chase and Tee were no brainer picks, then where is the development of all these wide receivers we've drafted?
Why does he get a pass around here?
how.do u develop a guy always hurt and a guy that seems out og control...
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