2025 DE's where we at?

[*bengalfan74*]

I don't think it's any big secret that our 2024 defense cost us games this past season. Moreover, our lack of pass rush in many games (besides Hendrickson) was just pathetic.

As with so many position groups there's a lot to think about/fix here, IMHO. Here they are:

Trey Hendrickson - 31 years old next season averaging 14 sacks per season over last 5 years. With back to back 17.5 sack seasons I don't think it's much of a stretch to think he's going to demand a new contract, again. Can/will the Bengals be able to keep him?

Sam Hubbard - 31 years old next season averaging about 4.5 sacks a season over last 5 years. This subject touches a nerve around here, but here is my take. They need to either cut Sam or restructure his contract and put him as a rotational backup. His career has been in decline last couple seasons and we have to get better production from our DE's not named Trey.

Myles Murphy - 24 years old next season and a 1st round draft pick in 2023. Has 3 sacks to his credit all in 2023. Hasn't moved the needle much in his young career but I doubt he's a cut candidate yet. Will he find his stride next season? I have my doubts.

Joseph Ossai - 25 next season with 9.5 career sacks. He had 5 sacks this year with all of them coming in back half of season. I believe at best he's aa rotational type backup.

And the rest: Cam Sample, Cedric Johnson, and Isaiah Thomas Sample has flashed a bit here and there and if he can come back from injury he's worth a look. Not real sure about the rest?

In summary IMHO we have to bring Trey back and we need to either go get a good free agent DE and they're expensive or pray we get a great DC that can develop this bunch we have. We have to get some pressure on opposing QB's besides Trey.

[jj22]

Cedric flashed too in the last couple games if you watch his snaps. He showed something.

I still think we need at least 1 more maybe 2.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 03:25 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I don't think it's any big secret that our 2024 defense cost us games this past season. Moreover, our lack of pass rush in many games (besides Hendrickson) was just pathetic.

As with so many position groups there's a lot to think about/fix here, IMHO. Here they are:

Trey Hendrickson - 31 years old next season averaging 14 sacks per season over last 5 years. With back to back 17.5 sack seasons I don't think it's much of a stretch to think he's going to demand a new contract, again. Can/will the Bengals be able to keep him?

Sam Hubbard - 31 years old next season averaging about 4.5 sacks a season over last 5 years. This subject touches a nerve around here, but here is my take. They need to either cut Sam or restructure his contract and put him as a rotational backup. His career has been in decline last couple seasons and we have to get better production from our DE's not named Trey.

Myles Murphy - 24 years old next season and a 1st round draft pick in 2023. Has 3 sacks to his credit all in 2023. Hasn't moved the needle much in his young career but I doubt he's a cut candidate yet. Will he find his stride next season? I have my doubts.

Joseph Ossai - 25 next season with 9.5 career sacks. He had 5 sacks this year with all of them coming in back half of season. I believe at best he's aa rotational type backup.

And the rest: Cam Sample, Cedric Johnson, and Isaiah Thomas Sample has flashed a bit here and there and if he can come back from injury he's worth a look. Not real sure about the rest?

In summary IMHO we have to bring Trey back and we need to either go get a good free agent DE and they're expensive or pray we get a great DC that can develop this bunch we have. We have to get some pressure on opposing QB's besides Trey.

Nice thread buddy. Give Trey the extension he wants, bring back Ossai as a backup pass rusher in our rotation shouldn't be too expensive 
with only 5 sacks this last year. We will see if Sam is done or not, if he can get healthy he is a hard worker and can be a good backup and
help setting the edge against the run. A new DL coach and a Free Agent End could really help out this area of the team.

As you say, we need another starter at End opposite of Trey. I would go get a FA and draft another End in the mid rounds for the new DL 
coach to work with. Haven't really delved into the FA Ends yet or the Draft as far as this position yet as it is really early still.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 03:27 PM)jj22 Wrote: Cedric flashed too in the last couple games if you watch his snaps. He showed something.

I still think we need at least 1 more maybe 2.

Yeah, Cedric Johnson looks to have a great motor on him, made some nice plays once he got some snaps.

[Cosmokramer]

I don’t think our pass rush or lack there of really cost us many games. Sure we want more pressure. But in my opinion our focus needs to be 100% on our secondary. It was atrocious. If you want to boil down games to 1 play , our secondary cost us several games where if they had defended that one pass at the end of game we win. CTB is mediocre at best, Bell took a major step back. Stone and newton did not live up to their hype. Basically Hilton carried us. And he’s aging.

[kalibengal]

(Yesterday, 03:27 PM)jj22 Wrote: Cedric flashed too in the last couple games if you watch his snaps. He showed something.

I still think we need at least 1 more maybe 2.

I say move on from Hubbard, Murphy, Sample, try to resign Ossai at a reasonable contract, draft an Edge in Rd 1 and don't let Duke make that decision or target a FA DE like Chase Young. Too bad about Murphy but win rates and PFF scores and high RAS etc  need to convert into sacks and TFLs which he cant seem to do after 2 seasons

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 03:32 PM)Cosmokramer Wrote: I don’t think our pass rush or lack there of really cost us many games.  Sure we want more pressure. But in my opinion our focus needs to be 100% on our secondary.  It was atrocious. If you want to boil down games to 1 play , our secondary cost us several games where if they had defended that one pass at the end of game we win.   CTB is mediocre at best,  Bell took a major step back.  Stone and newton did not live up to their hype.   Basically Hilton carried us.  And he’s aging.

Disagree, a good pass rush would make those guys look so much better in the Secondary. Guarantee we wouldn't be calling them out 
near as much if we had a good pass rush besides Trey. CTB was terrible this year for sure, but we need to bring back Hilton add a FS
and let DJ Turner and Dax Hill develop at outside corner and we might not be so bad especially with a new DC and a decent pass rush.

Also liked what I saw from DJ Ivey and Fig when they got snaps.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 03:33 PM)kalibengal Wrote: I say move on from Hubbard, Murphy, Sample, try to resign Ossai at a reasonable contract, draft an Edge in Rd 1 and don't let Duke make that decision or target a FA DE like Chase Young. Too bad about Murphy but win rates and PFF scores and high RAS etc  need to convert into sacks and TFLs which he cant seem to do after 2 seasons

You don't move on from a 1st round pick while he is still on his rookie contract. Crazy talk Kali and I usually like your posts.

Agree on bringing in Chase Young.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(Yesterday, 03:42 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You don't move on from a 1st round pick while he is still on his rookie contract. Crazy talk Kali and I usually like your posts.

Agree on bringing in Chase Young.

Ehhhhh... If they are a bad player and you can find someone else willing to take on the guaranteed money? You absolutely can and should.

Billy Price we managed to move on from and rather than having to cut him we got someone else's probable cut player in BJ Hill.

John Ross and Cedric Ogbuehi had no value in their 4th year with us. If we could have traded them for a 7th round pick or something to get out from their guaranteed money to a team who was willing to pay a couple million to see if they could salvage them? Absolutely should have done so.

[ERIC1]

Bengals need...one interior defensive lineman...one defensive end...help in the secondary...linebaker..and interior offensive linemen....going to be an intersting offseason

[*bengalfan74*]

(Yesterday, 03:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Disagree, a good pass rush would make those guys look so much better in the Secondary. Guarantee we wouldn't be calling them out 
near as much if we had a good pass rush besides Trey. CTB was terrible this year for sure, but we need to bring back Hilton add a FS
and let DJ Turner and Dax Hill develop at outside corner and we might not be so bad especially with a new DC and a decent pass rush.

Also liked what I saw from DJ Ivey and Fig when they got snaps.

You beat me to it.

Yes a good stout Dline and pass rush can totally flip the "our DB's suck" narrative. But yes CTB faceplanted hard this past season.

[*bengalfan74*]

(Yesterday, 03:51 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: Bengals need...one interior defensive lineman...one defensive end...help in the secondary...linebaker..and interior offensive linemen....going to be an intersting offseason

For sure we need a lot of help.

[*bengalfan74*]

(Yesterday, 03:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Ehhhhh... If they are a bad player and you can find someone else willing to take on the guaranteed money? You absolutely can and should.

Billy Price we managed to move on from and rather than having to cut him we got someone else's probable cut player in BJ Hill.

John Ross and Cedric Ogbuehi had no value in their 4th year with us. If we could have traded them for a 7th round pick or something to get out from their guaranteed money to a team who was willing to pay a couple million to see if they could salvage them? Absolutely should have done so.

I wouldn't be heart broken if they moved on from Murphy. Perhaps I'm wrong? But I have little faith in Murphy not ending up a "B" word.

[*bengalfan74*]

(Yesterday, 03:27 PM)jj22 Wrote: Cedric flashed too in the last couple games if you watch his snaps. He showed something.

I still think we need at least 1 more maybe 2.

I sure hope somebody develops out of this bunch. And like you say we probably still need another DE or even two.

[Tomcat]

Cut Sam, Rankins, Stone, Cappa and possibly Pratt. Try to get Chase Young or Ojulari for DE, Hargrave for DT and Carlton Davis or Rasual Douglas for CB and then BPA hopefully Malaki Starks.

By the way Hubbard just turned 29 not 31. My Son played against him in HS and they were in the same graduating class.

[Bengalion]

(Yesterday, 03:51 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: Bengals need...one interior defensive lineman...one defensive end...help in the secondary...linebaker..and interior offensive linemen....going to be an intersting offseason

This is why we need to trade down, too many roster concerns to adress with 6 picks. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 03:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Ehhhhh... If they are a bad player and you can find someone else willing to take on the guaranteed money? You absolutely can and should.

Billy Price we managed to move on from and rather than having to cut him we got someone else's probable cut player in BJ Hill.

John Ross and Cedric Ogbuehi had no value in their 4th year with us. If we could have traded them for a 7th round pick or something to get out from their guaranteed money to a team who was willing to pay a couple million to see if they could salvage them? Absolutely should have done so.

Well getting something in a trade for Murphy is much different than just cutting him.

Also think he gained too much muscle this Offseason and needs to slim down so he can get his speed back. I am not ready to give up on MM yet.

(Yesterday, 04:29 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: You beat me to it.

Yes a good stout Dline and pass rush can totally flip the "our DB's suck" narrative. But yes CTB faceplanted hard this past season.

They would have to cover half as much if we had a good pass rusher besides Trey and Offenses could just try and fail to just slow down Trey.

Cannot imagine how good everyone on the Defense would be including Trey with a couple more pass rushers, another End and a good 3-tech.

[*bengalfan74*]

(Yesterday, 04:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well getting something in a trade for Murphy is much different than just cutting him.

Also think he gained too much muscle this Offseason and needs to slim down so he can get his speed back. I am not ready to give up on MM yet.


They would have to cover half as much if we had a good pass rusher besides Trey and Offenses could just try and fail to just slow down Trey.

Cannot imagine how good everyone on the Defense would be including Trey with a couple more pass rushers, another End and a good 3-tech.

Right

And I think people (myself include) at times lose sight of how everything connects. A better interior Dline makes the LBers abilities shoot up. Better DE's getting quicker pressure make DB's jobs much easier. An overall better D that can actually force some 3 and outs gets O back on field and gives them more opportunity to score. It all ties together.

And as the old saying goes: "it starts up front"

[Essex Johnson]

(Yesterday, 03:51 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: Bengals need...one interior defensive lineman...one defensive end...help in the secondary...linebaker..and interior offensive linemen....going to be an intersting offseason

Will take a couple year to fill needs but i put DT and DE top of list.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 05:40 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Right

And I think people (myself include) at times lose sight of how everything connects. A better interior Dline makes the LBers abilities shoot up. Better DE's getting quicker pressure make DB's jobs much easier. An overall better D that can actually force some 3 and outs gets O back on field and gives them more opportunity to score. It all ties together.

And as the old saying goes: "it starts up front"

Sure hope Kris Jenkins can grow into that 3-tech we need as well, if not we need to add one. I am for bringing BJ Hill back but I have 
always said, he is more of a hybrid, in between a 3-tech and a NT. This Defense with a dude in the middle that collapses the interior 
would help the most.