2025 DE's where we at?

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

Similar to offensive guard, sign a free agent so there is a known quantity and draft one.

I haven't looked into the college kids coming out yet, but I would not be opposed to the Bengals going after a pure 3rd down specialist pass rusher, in the draft. That would give 1st and 2nd to Murphy or a yet unsigned like Sweat or Young (Bengals are not opposed to prove it deals), a surprise cut (Cameron Jordan) or trading with a team that may be rebuilding and having a fire sale (Maxx Crosby pipe dream).

[*Synric*]

The Bengals have one starting defensive lineman and a bunch of "maybes". That's about where they are at...

[*bengalfan74*]

(Yesterday, 06:38 PM)Synric Wrote: The Bengals have one starting defensive lineman and a bunch of "maybes". That's about where they are at...

Pretty much sums up my thoughts as well.

[puddycat]

The Bengals have spent a lot of effort trying to contain QBs instead of knocking them down. They also stunt very little, probably for the same reason. Our discussion is a little schizophrenic: We need pass rushers at DT to make up for lack of pass rush on the right side. We need to play Hubbard because our DTs are so bad against the run. We hate on our CBs because they get beat even though we know our safeties have been awful when forced into coverage help. The safeties are knocked for not covering deep, but also for not stopping the run. We just need a good coordinator and good but not great players.

[Hammerstripes]

Why are so many people talking about Chase Young like he would be some great upgrade? He hasn't ever produced to his level and he's not coming cheap.

[pulses]

(Yesterday, 03:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nice thread buddy. Give Trey the extension he wants, bring back Ossai as a backup pass rusher in our rotation shouldn't be too expensive 
with only 5 sacks this last year. We will see if Sam is done or not, if he can get healthy he is a hard worker and can be a good backup and
help setting the edge against the run. A new DL coach and a Free Agent End could really help out this area of the team.

As you say, we need another starter at End opposite of Trey. I would go get a FA and draft another End in the mid rounds for the new DL 
coach to work with. Haven't really delved into the FA Ends yet or the Draft as far as this position yet as it is really early still.

Chase Young Azeez Ojulari and Dayo Odeyingbo are the FA's prob in our wheelhouse.

[pulses]

(Yesterday, 10:41 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Why are so many people talking about Chase Young like he would be some great upgrade?  He hasn't ever produced to his level and he's not coming cheap.

Yeah he's definitely not worth any MAJOR money at all.

[Bengal Dude]

(Yesterday, 03:25 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I don't think it's any big secret that our 2024 defense cost us games this past season. Moreover, our lack of pass rush in many games (besides Hendrickson) was just pathetic.

As with so many position groups there's a lot to think about/fix here, IMHO. Here they are:

Trey Hendrickson - 31 years old next season averaging 14 sacks per season over last 5 years. With back to back 17.5 sack seasons I don't think it's much of a stretch to think he's going to demand a new contract, again. Can/will the Bengals be able to keep him?

Sam Hubbard - 31 years old next season averaging about 4.5 sacks a season over last 5 years. This subject touches a nerve around here, but here is my take. They need to either cut Sam or restructure his contract and put him as a rotational backup. His career has been in decline last couple seasons and we have to get better production from our DE's not named Trey.

Myles Murphy - 24 years old next season and a 1st round draft pick in 2023. Has 3 sacks to his credit all in 2023. Hasn't moved the needle much in his young career but I doubt he's a cut candidate yet. Will he find his stride next season? I have my doubts.

Joseph Ossai - 25 next season with 9.5 career sacks. He had 5 sacks this year with all of them coming in back half of season. I believe at best he's aa rotational type backup.

And the rest: Cam Sample, Cedric Johnson, and Isaiah Thomas Sample has flashed a bit here and there and if he can come back from injury he's worth a look. Not real sure about the rest?

In summary IMHO we have to bring Trey back and we need to either go get a good free agent DE and they're expensive or pray we get a great DC that can develop this bunch we have. We have to get some pressure on opposing QB's besides Trey.

Sample and Ossai are free agents. 

I know Ossai hasn't done much to warrant a big deal, but he's represented by Mulugheta.

[*bfine32*]

I'm always looking for high upside. Clelin Ferrel was taken #4 OA back in 2019 (The best DT draft class in recent history). He's not lived up to the pick, but he's been OK. I'd like to see if we can get what he could have been

[pulses]

(Today, 02:32 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Sample and Ossai are free agents. 

I know Ossai hasn't done much to warrant a big deal, but he's represented by Mulugheta.

Sample can go. Ossai can come back on a team friendly deal. Nobody is gonna pay anything crazy.

[pulses]

Clelin Ferrell is gonna be 28 coming into camp. That's not a high upside guy you bring into camp when he's already that old and been a BUST his entire career. No thanks !

[Sled21]

(Today, 04:36 AM)pulses Wrote: Sample can go. Ossai can come back on a team friendly deal. Nobody is gonna pay anything crazy.

I'm good with Sample coming back on a cheap deal. He has gotten better and also plays inside. I don't want him starting, but in a rotation he's somewhat solid.

[*ochocincos*]

(Yesterday, 03:25 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I don't think it's any big secret that our 2024 defense cost us games this past season. Moreover, our lack of pass rush in many games (besides Hendrickson) was just pathetic.

As with so many position groups there's a lot to think about/fix here, IMHO. Here they are:

Trey Hendrickson - 31 years old next season averaging 14 sacks per season over last 5 years. With back to back 17.5 sack seasons I don't think it's much of a stretch to think he's going to demand a new contract, again. Can/will the Bengals be able to keep him?

Sam Hubbard - 31 years old next season averaging about 4.5 sacks a season over last 5 years. This subject touches a nerve around here, but here is my take. They need to either cut Sam or restructure his contract and put him as a rotational backup. His career has been in decline last couple seasons and we have to get better production from our DE's not named Trey.

Myles Murphy - 24 years old next season and a 1st round draft pick in 2023. Has 3 sacks to his credit all in 2023. Hasn't moved the needle much in his young career but I doubt he's a cut candidate yet. Will he find his stride next season? I have my doubts.

Joseph Ossai - 25 next season with 9.5 career sacks. He had 5 sacks this year with all of them coming in back half of season. I believe at best he's aa rotational type backup.

And the rest: Cam Sample, Cedric Johnson, and Isaiah Thomas Sample has flashed a bit here and there and if he can come back from injury he's worth a look. Not real sure about the rest?

In summary IMHO we have to bring Trey back and we need to either go get a good free agent DE and they're expensive or pray we get a great DC that can develop this bunch we have. We have to get some pressure on opposing QB's besides Trey.

And Ossai and Sample are set to hit FA in a couple months.

Cedric Johnson played 83 defensive snaps and has 1.0 sack.
Murphy played 353 defensive snaps and had 0.0 sacks.

To me, this is Murphy's make-or-break year. Gotta take the next step in your 3rd year, especially as a 1st rounder.
We had heard Murphy's elite ceiling is what elevated him to 1st round status, but he needed work to get there.


I like Cedric Johnson as the last DE on the depth chart to continue developing and someone maybe who can become part of the rotation in a year or two.
He takes one of the 5-6 DE spots.
I expect them to add one more DE.
If they re-sign Ossai, maybe that's when they might let Hubbard go and kinda plan for Ossai and Murphy to cover Hubbard's role in 2025 along with an early draft pick.
If they don't re-sign Ossai, I can see them keeping Hubbard for insurance and continuity while still drafting a guy early.

[higgy100]

(Yesterday, 03:33 PM)kalibengal Wrote: I say move on from Hubbard, Murphy, Sample, try to resign Ossai at a reasonable contract, draft an Edge in Rd 1 and don't let Duke make that decision or target a FA DE like Chase Young. Too bad about Murphy but win rates and PFF scores and high RAS etc  need to convert into sacks and TFLs which he cant seem to do after 2 seasons

LOL. They ain't giving up on Murphy.

[*Synric*]

(6 hours ago)ochocincos Wrote: And Ossai and Sample are set to hit FA in a couple months.

Cedric Johnson played 83 defensive snaps and has 1.0 sack.
Murphy played 353 defensive snaps and had 0.0 sacks.

To me, this is Murphy's make-or-break year. Gotta take the next step in your 3rd year, especially as a 1st rounder.
We had heard Murphy's elite ceiling is what elevated him to 1st round status, but he needed work to get there.


I like Cedric Johnson as the last DE on the depth chart to continue developing and someone maybe who can become part of the rotation in a year or two.
He takes one of the 5-6 DE spots.
I expect them to add one more DE.
If they re-sign Ossai, maybe that's when they might let Hubbard go and kinda plan for Ossai and Murphy to cover Hubbard's role in 2025 along with an early draft pick.
If they don't re-sign Ossai, I can see them keeping Hubbard for insurance and continuity while still drafting a guy early.

They had interest in Azeez Ojulari at the trade deadline. Trey, Ojulari, Ossai, Johnson, Murphy, and a top 100 pick could be a decent DE room.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(Yesterday, 03:32 PM)Cosmokramer Wrote: I don’t think our pass rush or lack there of really cost us many games.  Sure we want more pressure. But in my opinion our focus needs to be 100% on our secondary.  It was atrocious. If you want to boil down games to 1 play , our secondary cost us several games where if they had defended that one pass at the end of game we win.   CTB is mediocre at best,  Bell took a major step back.  Stone and newton did not live up to their hype.   Basically Hilton carried us.  And he’s aging.

As Nate said, pass rush will HELP the secondary.

We don't have scrubs back there, each person has flashed, albeit inconsistently, the past 3 years: a consistent pass rush will help them all tremendously.

I don't expect Bell back btw, as he was a Lou guy and has clearly lost a step and what he was brought back for, is no longer necessary.

(Yesterday, 03:33 PM)kalibengal Wrote: I say move on from Hubbard, Murphy, Sample, try to resign Ossai at a reasonable contract, draft an Edge in Rd 1 and don't let Duke make that decision or target a FA DE like Chase Young. Too bad about Murphy but win rates and PFF scores and high RAS etc  need to convert into sacks and TFLs which he cant seem to do after 2 seasons

Why don't we cut the whole team while we're at it?


Anyways, if I were calling the shots, I'd go in with:

Starters:

- Hendrickson
- Draft Pick/Good FA

1st backup guy at each positon:

- Ossai
- Murphy

Depth:

- Hubbard
- Sample (PS)
- Johnson (PS)

DT needs to be considered as well though, since DL usually goes hand in hand with both positions. For that:

Starters: 

-Hill/Jenkins (if Hill doesn't come back)
- McKinnley/Good FA or draft

1st backup:

- Jenkins/Draft
- McKinnley/Draft
- Slide in one of the DEs

I think we're pretty good and setup for Dline, we're just missing one impact player at each spot, thus I'd say to draft one and sign a FA for the other, then we will see a better Dline. 

Things did improve as the year went on as well, no doubt due to the, "simplification," of things.

[*bfine32*]

(Today, 04:38 AM)pulses Wrote: Clelin Ferrell is gonna be 28 coming into camp. That's not a high upside guy you bring into camp when he's already that old and been a BUST his entire career. No thanks !

I'd imagine a lot of folks said the same about Dante Fowler coming into last year. i know folks want us to trade Cordel Volson for Myles Garrett, but we gotta live in reality.  

[*ochocincos*]

(6 hours ago)Synric Wrote: They had interest in Azeez Ojulari at the trade deadline. Trey, Ojulari, Ossai, Johnson, Murphy, and a top 100 pick could be a decent DE room.

Think they go 6 DEs, 4 DTs or 5-5?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 10:41 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Why are so many people talking about Chase Young like he would be some great upgrade?  He hasn't ever produced to his level and he's not coming cheap.

He shouldn't be expensive, that is why.

He is better than Sam Hubbard, that is why.

He still has higher upside than Sam Hubbard, that is why.

Makes the team better, that is why.

(Today, 01:41 AM)pulses Wrote: Chase Young Azeez Ojulari and Dayo Odeyingbo are the FA's prob in our wheelhouse.

I like all your thoughts here Pulses. Ojulari was a guy we were looking at as well as Synric said.

(Today, 01:42 AM)pulses Wrote: Yeah he's definitely not worth any MAJOR money at all.

Exactly, if we are spending big money on an outside FA it would have to Guard/Center on the interior OL.

Anyone thinking Chase Young would be a top spendy FA hasn't seen his injured/disappointing career even though he could be good here
and help, just like Ojulare of Dayo could.

[pulses]

(6 hours ago)bfine32 Wrote: I'd imagine a lot of folks said the same about Dante Fowler coming into last year. i know folks want us to trade Cordel Volson for Myles Garrett, but we gotta live in reality.  

Plenty of other options besides Ferrell and NOBODY in their right mind would expect that trade.....a little far fetched even for you.