Possible cuts

[reuben.ahmed]

(Yesterday, 12:10 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I'd be fine with cutting Moss and re-signing Herbert

Did Herbert show us enough

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 12:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: In this thread about cuts? Yes

Simple question me asking if you thought great plan to only pursue cut players. Thanks for clarifying your position.

[SunsetBengal]

(Yesterday, 03:10 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Did Herbert show us enough

I think that what Zack Moss showed us <250 yards in 8 games with a 3.3/ypc, and what Chase Brown showed us is that he's able to shoulder the load with 990 yards and 4.3/ypc is enough to justify saving $3.3M by cutting Moss. Herbert has enough experience to be Chase Brown's backup for likely less than $2M.

[phil413]

(Yesterday, 03:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I think that what Zack Moss showed us <250 yards in 8 games with a 3.3/ypc, and what Chase Brown showed us is that he's able to shoulder the load with 990 yards and 4.3/ypc is enough to justify saving $3.3M by cutting Moss. Herbert has enough experience to be Chase Brown's backup for likely less than $2M.

Yeah even if Moss improves, Herbert is a descent backup with 4.9 career ypc.  We will have to get creative in saving money to improve the defense, pay the stars and still improve guard.  I think it's a very safe bet this is the move.  You save 1.5M and still have the luxury to take RB as BPA in the mid to late rounds and it not a big deal if they lap Herbert. 

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 03:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I think that what Zack Moss showed us <250 yards in 8 games with a 3.3/ypc, and what Chase Brown showed us is that he's able to shoulder the load with 990 yards and 4.3/ypc is enough to justify saving $3.3M by cutting Moss. Herbert has enough experience to be Chase Brown's backup for likely less than $2M.

I agree Brown won the job over Moss based on performance. I do hope we also look at a draft pick or FA for a veteran or rookie bruising type back to replace Williams also. All Hunt does is get paid little to deliver good results for a part time RB in regular season, then seems to be better come playoff time. My point is we can find good bruising goal line and 3rd and short RBs for low cap dollars.

[SunsetBengal]

(Yesterday, 03:48 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree Brown won the job over Moss based on performance. I do hope we also look at a draft pick or FA for a veteran or rookie bruising type back to replace Williams also. All Hunt does is get paid little to deliver good results for a part time RB in regular season, then seems to be better come playoff time. My point is we can find good bruising goal line and 3rd and short RBs for low cap dollars.

Why not Herbert for those situations? At 5'9" and 212#, he's a thick dude.

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 03:55 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Why not Herbert for those situations? At 5'9" and 212#, he's a thick dude.

I have no issue as Herbert being Brown's backup for 1.5 million, then I want a Hunt type (he is big and runs hard so great goal line and short yardage back for 1.5 million. We get 2 backs and lose Moss and Williams and get 2 backs a lot cheaper.

I like Herbert to back up Brown, similar speed and quickness

[schroomytunes]

I would definitely have to put Moss in the cut pile. He was basically ineffective in the run game for us. Chase Brown has showed us he deserves to be the #1 RB by a wide margin. Moss carries a cap hit of 4.8 million, we need to free up all available dollars to fix other areas of the roster no doubt.

1) Chase Brown

2) Khalil Herbert (2 million or so)

3) Rookie draft pick (5th/ 6th) , or UDFA is the way to go here.

[sandwedge]

(Yesterday, 02:59 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: He gambled a lot. He'd sometimes take himself out of plays and open gaps for the other team  but sometimes he'd create penetration and be disruptive. 

Reader & Hill have more discipline and gamble less. They are more reliable. But Larry O. introduced some uncertainty for the offense to deal with. Sometimes it would pay off. 

As for the cuts, I'd like to throw a couple more names out there beyond the obvious 3 (Rankins, Cappa, Hubbard), possible 2 (Stone & Pratt), and the 2 I already mentioned (Moss & McPherson). 

1. Volson. He is scheduled to make $3.5 mil or do next year and should be a backup. He's our bestctun blocker but was giving Cappa a tlrun for the Triple Crown as the worst pass protecting guard in the league (Alex gave up the most pressures, hits, and sacks of any G, Volson was bottom 10 in all of them as well). 

Cutting him would save us over $3 mil. If we can pay Ford half that, or all of it  or part of it  we should. 

2. Drew Sample. $2.75 mil. Zero dead cap. Would anyone notice if we just let Grandy take his snaps? 

3. Orlando Brown, Jr. Post June 1 we could save $7.26 mil by cilutting him. He is a fine pass protector but a poor run blocker. He is starter level, but not great. 

Depending on how FA goes, if we are sitting there at #17, taking Josh Simmons and saving the $$ is not completely crazy. Especially if we think he can be a better run blocker. Heck, keeping Brown and taking Simmons also is not completely crazy, either. 

I think OG, DT, DE, WR2, and TE are obviously a higher priority. But if we are gonna consider cutting Peatt and Stone because they are underperforming their contracts, I don't think Brown is immune either.

Who are you going to replace Orlando with? We are a very pass oriented team.  I'm not the biggest fan of him, more personality wise, but he does his job in pass protection. 
We need to see more of Grandy before just cutting Sample to save a couple of mil. He was kind of a penalty machine this season.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(Yesterday, 04:26 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Who are you going to replace Orlando with? We are a very pass oriented team. I'm not the biggest fan of him, more personality wise, but he does his job in pass protection. 
We need to see more of Grandy before just cutting Sample to save a couple of mil. He was kind of a penalty machine this season.

Why? Dude is one of the most likable guys on the team, and has really taken on a leadership role here.

[Sled21]

(Yesterday, 03:10 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Did Herbert show us enough

Yes, what he put on tape here was pretty good, and the limited carries he had here are not his only NFL carries. There is plenty of tape on him running the ball for Chicago. I think he's better than Moss, and he's a lot cheaper. I'd cut Moss and Williams both, then draft someone in the later rounds or pick up a free agent to be #3 and #4.

[Essex Johnson]

(Yesterday, 03:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's one heck of a hole that you'd be creating by cutting our starting LT, and one that I'm not sure that the Bengals could fill with equal or better talent for the same money.

No way im cutting Orlando, we finally have two starting tackles that can balance the tackles for next couple years... I agree cut Cappa and Volson, and resign Ford, looking to make a splash in FA for a starting guard...

[SunsetBengal]

(Yesterday, 05:26 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: No way im cutting Orlando, we finally have two starting tackles that can balance the tackles for next couple years... I agree cut Cappa and Volson, and resign Ford, looking to make a splash in FA for a starting guard...

If they want one of those better free agent Guards, they better really take advantage of the legal tampering period. Predictions are that Vrabel will be looking to rebuild the Patriots OL, starting with a pair of Guards, and the Pats have $127M to throw around. Since we know that the Bengals aren't likely getting into any bidding wars, it may be time to look at the full slate of FA Guards rather than just the top two or three?

[M.W.]

(Yesterday, 12:19 PM)jason Wrote: Pff grades aside, I thought Ogunjobi brought something to this defense that it's been lacking ever since. Not sure what he has left but I'd take him back at the right price any day.

I think Ogunjobi played very good for us!  I would welcome him back too. 

We need another Geno A!

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(Yesterday, 05:42 PM)M.W. Wrote: I think Ogunjobi played very good for us!  I would welcome him back too. 

We need another Geno A!

That was Ogunjobi's career high in sacks, TFL, and QB Hits, and he's gotten nowhere close to those numbers since. When the 2025 season starts that will have been 4 years ago. He's also heading into his age 31 season.

The memory of 2021 Ogunjobi and the reality of 2025 Ogunjobi is probably going to be a stark reminder of time.

He's certainly not Atkins.  (But who is? HoFers don't grow on trees.)

[M.W.]

(Yesterday, 06:04 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That was Ogunjobi's career high in sacks, TFL, and QB Hits, and he's gotten nowhere close to those numbers since. When the 2025 season starts that will have been 4 years ago. He's also heading into his age 31 season.

The memory of 2021 Ogunjobi and the reality of 2025 Ogunjobi is probably going to be a stark reminder of time.

He's certainly not Atkins.  (But who is? HoFers don't grow on trees.)

Larry is nowhere near Geno.  
If we could get another DT tackle in the fourth round that could be even close to Geno we would hit gold.  Geno was so good, he made those around him better.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(Yesterday, 04:26 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Who are you going to replace Orlando with? We are a very pass oriented team.  I'm not the biggest fan of him, more personality wise, but he does his job in pass protection. 
We need to see more of Grandy before just cutting Sample to save a couple of mil. He was kind of a penalty machine this season.

Like I said repeatedly in the post, which I guess you did not comprehend, I'd take Josh Simmons at #17 in a cut Brown scenario. No way I'd do it before the draft, though. And even after, I would not do it until I was sure I had a player. 

I know ZT's predictable playcalling makes it harder on OL guys here, and Brown's numbers this year certainly took a hit when he played through that broken leg......but he still is not playing like an $18 mil dollar OT. In the next year or two, turning over LT is something we should start thinking about. 

Simmons would be in the running for OT#1 in this draft if not for the injury. Us having the ability to take the top 1-2 LT in a draft may not happen again in the Burrow/Chase prime. 

[SunsetBengal]

(Yesterday, 06:43 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Like I said repeatedly in the post, which I guess you did not comprehend, I'd take Josh Simmons at #17 in a cut Brown scenario. No way I'd do it before the draft, though. And even after, I would not do it until I was sure I had a player. 

I know ZT's predictable playcalling makes it harder on OL guys here, and Brown's numbers this year certainly took a hit when he played through that broken leg......but he still is not playing like an $18 mil dollar OT. In the next year or two, turning over LT is something we should start thinking about. 

Simmons would be in the running for OT#1 in this draft if not for the injury. Us having the ability to take the top 1-2 LT in a draft may not happen again in the Burrow/Chase prime. 

With all of the other needs the Bengals have, they have a set of OTs that they appear to be comfortable with. Why spend a pick on a position that we don't currently need, when other options will work to remedy a current weakness of the team? I just can't get on board with that idea, it just seems frivolous and unsavvy.

[pulses]

(Yesterday, 07:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: With all of the other needs the Bengals have, they have a set of OTs that they appear to be comfortable with. Why spend a pick on a position that we don't currently need, when other options will work to remedy a current weakness of the team? I just can't get on board with that idea, it just seems frivolous and unsavvy.

You could always play Simmons at LG for a couple years and then move on from OBJ and then kick Simmons out to LT.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Cutting Orlando is some crazy shit.