Duke Tobin: Held onto some players too long

[*pally*]

(01-29-2025, 11:57 PM)SladeX Wrote: He’s got it backwards  Not limiting myself to D.
Needed to hold onto, in this order
Bates
Perine
Reader
Bell
Apple (and yes his antics pissed me off)

Perine took less money with the Broncos for the opportunity to be a starter.  He was not going to start here over Mixon.

Bell's play has fallen off massively in the last 2 seasons.  Letting him go was the correct decision.  Making him a starter here for as long as we did last season was a mistake.

Apple has played in 14 games in the last 2 seasons.  He couldn't even crack the 53 man roster this season until Jan.  For every brilliant play, he has 2 negative ones.  It was not a mistake to move on from him.

Bates and Reader should still be Bengals

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-30-2025, 01:12 PM)pally Wrote: This is the complete interview with Duke

these are a couple of blurbs...there is more in the article







this is as blunt as I've ever heard Duke speak about a player

I liked how Duke talked about Peters and the Guard play and he was very honest about Jermaine Burton.

Made me feel better. Had some more common sense in these quotes.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-30-2025, 04:35 PM)pally Wrote: Perine took less money with the Broncos for the opportunity to be a starter.  He was not going to start here over Mixon.

Bell's play has fallen off massively in the last 2 seasons.  Letting him go was the correct decision.  Making him a starter here for as long as we did last season was a mistake.

Apple has played in 14 games in the last 2 seasons.  He couldn't even crack the 53 man roster this season until Jan.  For every brilliant play, he has 2 negative ones.  It was not a mistake to move on from him.

Bates and Reader should still be Bengals

Agree on all counts Pally. Too much generalization going on here. Bates and Reader were the guys that should of been held onto.

[Frank Booth]

(01-30-2025, 04:35 PM)pally Wrote: Perine took less money with the Broncos for the opportunity to be a starter.  He was not going to start here over Mixon.

Bell's play has fallen off massively in the last 2 seasons.  Letting him go was the correct decision.  Making him a starter here for as long as we did last season was a mistake.

Apple has played in 14 games in the last 2 seasons.  He couldn't even crack the 53 man roster this season until Jan.  For every brilliant play, he has 2 negative ones.  It was not a mistake to move on from him.

Bates and Reader should still be Bengals

for how cheap he was, he was worth keeping around as depth. He actually played ok here, and anyone telling you different is wrong

[WeezyBengal]

(01-30-2025, 01:12 PM)pally Wrote: This is the complete interview with Duke

these are a couple of blurbs...there is more in the article







this is as blunt as I've ever heard Duke speak about a player

No accountablity from Tobin or the player evaluation staff. Blames coaching and hopes new coaching can make these players good. 

There is no "we need to get better at evaluating players and drafting better, we need to add resources to that and bring in better talent". 

Thats terrifying. 

[*pally*]

(01-30-2025, 04:41 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: for how cheap he was, he was worth keeping around as depth. He actually played ok here, and anyone telling you different is wrong

holding onto to a player because he is cheap is just as bad as holding onto a player because he was good a couple of seasons ago.  Just because he played "okay" here for a couple of seasons doesn't mean that would have continued.   He did an "okay" job in Miami and they couldn't wait to get rid of him. He was the most targeted CB in the league in 2023...playing in only 14 games.  This season he played in only 4 games.  He spent most of it on the PS for the chargers.  Apple is exactly the type of player to move on from

[Frank Booth]

(01-30-2025, 05:11 PM)pally Wrote: holding onto to a player because he is cheap is just as bad as holding onto a player because he was good a couple of seasons ago.  Just because he played "okay" here for a couple of seasons doesn't mean that would have continued.   He did an "okay" job in Miami and they couldn't wait to get rid of him. He was the most targeted CB in the league in 2023...playing in only 14 games.  This season he played in only 4 games.  He spent most of it on the PS for the chargers.  Apple is exactly the type of player to move on from

im not saying getting rid of him was a mistake btw

[Joelist]

I suspect they are thinking bringing back Bell was a mistake as was holding back Battle and Murphy. Now with a new braintrust on defense we'll see who they keep and where we look for new blood.

[007BengalsFan]

(01-30-2025, 05:44 PM)Joelist Wrote: I suspect they are thinking bringing back Bell was a mistake as was holding back Battle and Murphy. Now with a new braintrust on defense we'll see who they keep and where we look for new blood.

Battle graded out worse than Bell.  And Murphy? They guy is invisible out there.  Maybe the reason Bell and Murphy didnt get more snaps is the guys in front of them were simply playing better.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-30-2025, 06:52 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Battle graded out worse than Bell.  And Murphy? They guy is invisible out there.  Maybe the reason Bell and Murphy didnt get more snaps is the guys in front of them were simply playing better.

I don't believe in the grades of Battle and Bell if that is the case. Battle was clearly better when he played than Bell without a doubt in my mind.

Ossai was better than Hubbard as well.

[Joelist]

(01-30-2025, 07:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I don't believe in the grades of Battle and Bell if that is the case. Battle was clearly better when he played than Bell without a doubt in my mind.

Ossai was better than Hubbard as well.

Yep! Part of the defensive turnaround happened when Battle got in there (also simplifying the defense and letting other players like Stone attack instead of hanging back). 

[Frank Booth]

(01-30-2025, 06:52 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Battle graded out worse than Bell.  And Murphy? They guy is invisible out there.  Maybe the reason Bell and Murphy didnt get more snaps is the guys in front of them were simply playing better.

and Higgins graded better than Chase

your point?

[007BengalsFan]

If you guys think the solution to making the defense better is having Battle and Murphy playing more snaps, Im sorry but I just dont see it. If the coaching staff is counting on those guys as being some big upgrades at those positions next season, I bet we will end up with a bunch of unhappy fans.

[kalibengal]

(01-29-2025, 03:06 PM)pally Wrote: totally!!!

he should have included himself in that too, 25 yrs to come to that revelation dude!   LOL

[lone bengal]

(01-30-2025, 07:04 PM)Joelist Wrote: Yep! Part of the defensive turnaround happened when Battle got in there (also simplifying the defense and letting other players like Stone attack instead of hanging back). 

Can’t believe people are buying into the dead cat bounce so much. Feel like i’m trying to convince Mike Brown to not bring back Marvin after winning the last two games of the year. We beat the Titans who have the #1 pick , the Browns who have the #2 pick beat them with Dorian Thompson- Robinson a 3rd sting QB, Beat Cooper Rush and Dallas because they blocked our punt lol. Rico Dowle had 131 rushing yards and averaged 7.3 a carry. Beat the Steelers who were a train wreck losers of there last 6, played one good QB in Box Nix week 17 and he threw 3 td’s. Is Jordan Battle better than Vonn Bell yes. Jordan Battle is not afraid to tackle which I like but he’s a complete liability in pass coverage. Geno Stone had two garbage picks off Will Levi’s and Cooper rush. He can’t and refuses to tackle never has and never will and takes terrible angles.

[basballguy]

(01-30-2025, 04:35 PM)pally Wrote: Apple has played in 14 games in the last 2 seasons.  He couldn't even crack the 53 man roster this season until Jan.  For every brilliant play, he has 2 negative ones.  It was not a mistake to move on from him.

My spider sense knew we were talking Eli Apple and Pally is spot on.

Everyone remembers the stop he made before the half vs the Chiefs but nobody remembers him getting toasted for two first half TDs before that.

His career should’ve been over after the Saints.

[lone bengal]

(01-30-2025, 07:52 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: If you guys think the solution to making the defense better is having Battle and Murphy playing more snaps, Im sorry but I just dont see it. If the coaching staff is counting on those guys as being some big upgrades at those positions next season, I bet we will end up with a bunch of unhappy fans.

Spot on ! Battle can tackle but can’t cover. People wanted Murphy to play more snaps when he did nothing playing 20 snaps coming in fresh opposite the NFL sack leader. I think maybe a new DC can help I’ll literally take any improvement. Fans also clamoring for Mike Hilton back. Love him did a ton for the franchise and he can tackle but he’s turning 31 and was getting taken off the field because he was a liability in coverage. Does that improve with age ? I don’t think so. Or if we sign him back cheap and a young guy looks better during the year are we willing to bench him or will it take forever to make that move.

[Soonerpeace]

(01-30-2025, 01:12 PM)pally Wrote: This is the complete interview with Duke

these are a couple of blurbs...there is more in the article







this is as blunt as I've ever heard Duke speak about a player

He obviously was not happy with how we finished games. I was encouraged that he sees the same things many of us on here saw. The IOL (they drafted Volson). It looks like they felt like the DL needs to be better …. Hobby gone. They signed Rankins. They weren’t happy with the safety play. They resigned Bell, signed Scott, signed Stone, and drafted Battle. And let Bates go. Tobin says they held onto some players too long that had taken them to the ‘21 SB. I’d expect that was on Lou. He’s gone. I’d imagine that Lou has been heavily involved in retaining and approving players in the draft and free agency. JMO it doesn’t look like Duke and Lou were in a great place. JMO again I can see where they were blaming each other. Doubtful Lou wanted to let Bell and Bates both go in FA.

Who am I? To think I know? The biggest issue on the success of the Bengals is the FO/Ownership. They are like a poker player who rarely wins a big hand but rarely loses a big hand. He usually wins a little each poker night. The better poker players aren’t reckless but know when they have the winning hand versus getting scared off. Not signing Chase before the season will haunt them. Hitting on FA pickups a few years back and hitting on some 1st and 2nd round early picks propelled this team. Little has happened since. Disappointed Tobin didn’t take more responsibility

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-29-2025, 03:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Congrats, Duke! Admitting that there's a problem is the first step toward finding a solution.

FINALLY!!!!!

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-29-2025, 04:32 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Well, and retaining the wrong players while letting key pieces walk. Cough,cough especially Bates, and Reader to an extent. Wtbs, just one solid hit in the draft on IDL could go a long ways in remedying the Reader loss. 

I didn't watch a lot of Detroit's games, but I did see Reader pretty much neutralized in the NFCCG.