Tough Sledding for Al Golden

[samhain]

I hope that Al Golden got a lot of money to return to Cincinnati.  It's difficult to view the situation he's inheriting and not seeing inevitable disappointment.  Considering where he is and what he will get compared to Anarumo's early years, he'd better be ready to do some Copperfield level magic.

Lou inherited a horrific defense in year one.  His major FA acquisition was BW Webb, a player he'd coached in NY.  Remember him?  Wouldn't fault you if you didn't.  Year 2, however, was a different approach.  The team anticipated Burrow being their number 1 pick and having a cheap qb for a few years.  They loaded up on defense in FA in a manner that we've never seen in franchise history.  Big money for a NT in Reader.  Big money for Waynes, who never panned out.  Shelling out for Alexander at nickel corner.  Vonn Bell was the cherry on top of the class.  Then came Wilson in the draft.

Year 3 might have been even more of a re-load.  They snagged possibly the best pass rusher in team history in Trey on day 1, a day we used to regard as out of reach for the Bengals.  Then another slot corner in Hilton when Alexander didn't work out.  They signed Chido to hedge against Waynes not getting on the field.  Then Ogunjobi.  Then the trade for Hill, who became an incredibly reliable player.

The organization went above and beyond to support Lou's vision on defense.  At times, he had 7 of 11 starters on defense that arrived via FA counting Apple.  It's crazy that so many of them actually worked out.

Al won't get close to that.  The rookie qb contract years are long gone.  We'd better hope that this guy is as good at development as his reputation suggests, because there's unlikely to be a cavalry any time soon.  He may have a fully developed offense to bail him out, but there's a lot of work to be done and few resources to plug in.  

Lou's tenure was the Fisher-Price My First DC job treatment.  Golden's will be the Thoughts and Prayers era.  Guess it's a good thing he's spent some time hanging with touchdown Jesus.  He'll need all the help he can get.

[coachmcneil71]

(02-16-2025, 02:10 PM)samhain Wrote: I hope that Al Golden got a lot of money to return to Cincinnati.  It's difficult to view the situation he's inheriting and not seeing inevitable disappointment.  Considering where he is and what he will get compared to Anarumo's early years, he'd better be ready to do some Copperfield level magic.

Lou inherited a horrific defense in year one.  His major FA acquisition was BW Webb, a player he'd coached in NY.  Remember him?  Wouldn't fault you if you didn't.  Year 2, however, was a different approach.  The team anticipated Burrow being their number 1 pick and having a cheap qb for a few years.  They loaded up on defense in FA in a manner that we've never seen in franchise history.  Big money for a NT in Reader.  Big money for Waynes, who never panned out.  Shelling out for Alexander at nickel corner.  Vonn Bell was the cherry on top of the class.  Then came Wilson in the draft.

Year 3 might have been even more of a re-load.  They snagged possibly the best pass rusher in team history in Trey on day 1, a day we used to regard as out of reach for the Bengals.  Then another slot corner in Hilton when Alexander didn't work out.  They signed Chido to hedge against Waynes not getting on the field.  Then Ogunjobi.  Then the trade for Hill, who became an incredibly reliable player.

The organization went above and beyond to support Lou's vision on defense.  At times, he had 7 of 11 starters on defense that arrived via FA counting Apple.  It's crazy that so many of them actually worked out.

Al won't get close to that.  The rookie qb contract years are long gone.  We'd better hope that this guy is as good at development as his reputation suggests, because there's unlikely to be a cavalry any time soon.  He may have a fully developed offense to bail him out, but there's a lot of work to be done and few resources to plug in.  

Lou's tenure was the Fisher-Price My First DC job treatment.  Golden's will be the Thoughts and Prayers era.  Guess it's a good thing he's spent some time hanging with touchdown Jesus.  He'll need all the help he can get.

I think that most here are going to agree. I can assure you that I'm not the , "keep on the sunny side, always on the sunny side," guy. Ts, I think he's going to turn the secondary around. Most of the young guys were able to gain some valuable experience from last season. They're young, but also fast and talented. 

D-line= young and talented. Murphy's last and best chance to do something, anything in stripes. 

The Wilson injury loomed large last season. Probably going to draft a couple and perhaps even sign or trade for a vet with the Pratt situation. I think ADG stays and has already been mentioned becomes more of a pass rushing LB. The experienced he gained in coverage could help him and Golden may help that as well.

It seems dire and the D was atrocious last season! Yet, we only missed the playoffs by one game. I don't think that Golden is going to turn this D into the 85 Bears, but the cupboard is not bare. He very well could swing this defense 12 or 15 positions higher in year one. 

[Luvnit2]

(02-16-2025, 02:10 PM)samhain Wrote: I hope that Al Golden got a lot of money to return to Cincinnati.  It's difficult to view the situation he's inheriting and not seeing inevitable disappointment.  Considering where he is and what he will get compared to Anarumo's early years, he'd better be ready to do some Copperfield level magic.

Lou inherited a horrific defense in year one.  His major FA acquisition was BW Webb, a player he'd coached in NY.  Remember him?  Wouldn't fault you if you didn't.  Year 2, however, was a different approach.  The team anticipated Burrow being their number 1 pick and having a cheap qb for a few years.  They loaded up on defense in FA in a manner that we've never seen in franchise history.  Big money for a NT in Reader.  Big money for Waynes, who never panned out.  Shelling out for Alexander at nickel corner.  Vonn Bell was the cherry on top of the class.  Then came Wilson in the draft.

Year 3 might have been even more of a re-load.  They snagged possibly the best pass rusher in team history in Trey on day 1, a day we used to regard as out of reach for the Bengals.  Then another slot corner in Hilton when Alexander didn't work out.  They signed Chido to hedge against Waynes not getting on the field.  Then Ogunjobi.  Then the trade for Hill, who became an incredibly reliable player.

The organization went above and beyond to support Lou's vision on defense.  At times, he had 7 of 11 starters on defense that arrived via FA counting Apple.  It's crazy that so many of them actually worked out.

Al won't get close to that.  The rookie qb contract years are long gone.  We'd better hope that this guy is as good at development as his reputation suggests, because there's unlikely to be a cavalry any time soon.  He may have a fully developed offense to bail him out, but there's a lot of work to be done and few resources to plug in.  

Lou's tenure was the Fisher-Price My First DC job treatment.  Golden's will be the Thoughts and Prayers era.  Guess it's a good thing he's spent some time hanging with touchdown Jesus.  He'll need all the help he can get.

IMHO, I tend to disagree with a lot you posted. Golden takes over one of worst defenses in the NFL, so hard to not go up. The difference of Bengals having to spend #1 draft pick on Burrow and 2nd round pick on Higgins is our offense is very good. The team can focus on defense in FA and also the draft to improve the roster. I have a hunch we will end up with a ton of cap space after we make cuts.
Rankins - save 9.5 million if cut for a guy that did nothing in 2024.
Cappa - save 8 million 
Hubbard - save 9.5 million
Pratt - Save 5.6 million if cut/traded
Stone - Save 6.5 million if cut
Moss - Save 3.3 million if cut

Bengals have 44.5 to 46 million cap depending on site in 2025 and if it all happens above, they have 42.5 more million or minimum of 87 million. This does not include Burrow restructuring his deal to gain some cap space. Yes, they have to replace those guys, extend Trey, extend Chase, sign or trade Tee (tag and trade) and others. But, if they get creative with structure, we have over 226 million in cap space in 2026 so easily can push cap from 2025 to 2026.

I see a vastly different defensive roster in 2025 and hopefully Golden will get some input in FA and the draft.

I think the Bengals can make a huge impact if the use their cap dollars wisely and are willing to cut vets who underperformed. 

[CJD]

(02-16-2025, 02:10 PM)samhain Wrote: I hope that Al Golden got a lot of money to return to Cincinnati.  It's difficult to view the situation he's inheriting and not seeing inevitable disappointment.  Considering where he is and what he will get compared to Anarumo's early years, he'd better be ready to do some Copperfield level magic.

Lou inherited a horrific defense in year one.  His major FA acquisition was BW Webb, a player he'd coached in NY.  Remember him?  Wouldn't fault you if you didn't.  Year 2, however, was a different approach.  The team anticipated Burrow being their number 1 pick and having a cheap qb for a few years.  They loaded up on defense in FA in a manner that we've never seen in franchise history.  Big money for a NT in Reader.  Big money for Waynes, who never panned out.  Shelling out for Alexander at nickel corner.  Vonn Bell was the cherry on top of the class.  Then came Wilson in the draft.

Year 3 might have been even more of a re-load.  They snagged possibly the best pass rusher in team history in Trey on day 1, a day we used to regard as out of reach for the Bengals.  Then another slot corner in Hilton when Alexander didn't work out.  They signed Chido to hedge against Waynes not getting on the field.  Then Ogunjobi.  Then the trade for Hill, who became an incredibly reliable player.

The organization went above and beyond to support Lou's vision on defense.  At times, he had 7 of 11 starters on defense that arrived via FA counting Apple.  It's crazy that so many of them actually worked out.

Al won't get close to that.  The rookie qb contract years are long gone.  We'd better hope that this guy is as good at development as his reputation suggests, because there's unlikely to be a cavalry any time soon.  He may have a fully developed offense to bail him out, but there's a lot of work to be done and few resources to plug in.  

Lou's tenure was the Fisher-Price My First DC job treatment.  Golden's will be the Thoughts and Prayers era.  Guess it's a good thing he's spent some time hanging with touchdown Jesus.  He'll need all the help he can get.

You forgot what else the front office gave Lou in his time here: Intense levels of draft capital into the defense. From 2022 to 2024, The Bengals drafted defense in 8 of their 10 day 1 and day 2 picks. The only non-defense picks were Amarius Mims and (ugh) Jermaine Burton in 2024.

Of those 8 players, only 1 is arguably locked in as a quality starter on this defense, Dax Hill (and some may even say he's still an unknown). Cam and DJ have had their moments, but have also been maddeningly inconsistent, Zach Carter is already gone, Jordan Battle started the year on the bench before slowly taking snaps away from Bell, but has not yet proven that he should definitely hold a starter's spot yet, Murphy is...who even knows what he is. He had 0 sacks last year and the coaches never seemed to trust him to be a starter. And we're already talking about DT being our biggest need because we drafted Kris Jenkins and McKinnley Jackson in 2024, neither of whom actually showed proof that they could be a quality starter on this defense.

This is what ultimately got Lou fired. He was unable to develop premium talent that was given to him through the draft.

And, going into the 2025 draft, we are anticipating spending the vast majority of our draft capital on the defense once again.

The expectation is that Al Golden will have a say in who we draft for his defense and he will select players who will actually fit his scheme and earn starting roles on his defense.

It should not require major injections from the free agency when you're spending the entire front end of multiple drafts on infusing talent into the defense. Free agency should always be a complement to your drafting successes.

Draft, develop, re-sign and then fill in with free agency.

Incidentally, they better follow that same model when it comes to re-signing Higgins...

[sandwedge]

(02-16-2025, 02:29 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I think that most here are going to agree. I can assure you that I'm not the , "keep on the sunny side, always on the sunny side," guy. Ts, I think he's going to turn the secondary around. Most of the young guys were able to gain some valuable experience from last season. They're young, but also fast and talented. 

D-line= young and talented. Murphy's last and best chance to do something, anything in stripes. 

The Wilson injury loomed large last season. Probably going to draft a couple and perhaps even sign or trade for a vet with the Pratt situation. I think ADG stays and has already been mentioned becomes more of a pass rushing LB. The experienced he gained in coverage could help him and Golden may help that as well.

It seems dire and the D was atrocious last season! Yet, we only missed the playoffs by one game. I don't think that Golden is going to turn this D into the 85 Bears, but the cupboard is not bare. He very well could swing this defense 12 or 15 positions higher in year one. 

I agree coach. The cupboard isn't bare here. We have some good players to start with. IMO the problem was Lou's scheme and philosophy. I just hope Golden's philosophy isn't to rush only 3 on 4th and long with the game on the line...

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-16-2025, 02:10 PM)samhain Wrote: I hope that Al Golden got a lot of money to return to Cincinnati.  It's difficult to view the situation he's inheriting and not seeing inevitable disappointment.  Considering where he is and what he will get compared to Anarumo's early years, he'd better be ready to do some Copperfield level magic.

Lou inherited a horrific defense in year one.  His major FA acquisition was BW Webb, a player he'd coached in NY.  Remember him?  Wouldn't fault you if you didn't.  Year 2, however, was a different approach.  The team anticipated Burrow being their number 1 pick and having a cheap qb for a few years.  They loaded up on defense in FA in a manner that we've never seen in franchise history.  Big money for a NT in Reader.  Big money for Waynes, who never panned out.  Shelling out for Alexander at nickel corner.  Vonn Bell was the cherry on top of the class.  Then came Wilson in the draft.

Year 3 might have been even more of a re-load.  They snagged possibly the best pass rusher in team history in Trey on day 1, a day we used to regard as out of reach for the Bengals.  Then another slot corner in Hilton when Alexander didn't work out.  They signed Chido to hedge against Waynes not getting on the field.  Then Ogunjobi.  Then the trade for Hill, who became an incredibly reliable player.

The organization went above and beyond to support Lou's vision on defense.  At times, he had 7 of 11 starters on defense that arrived via FA counting Apple.  It's crazy that so many of them actually worked out.

Al won't get close to that.  The rookie qb contract years are long gone.  We'd better hope that this guy is as good at development as his reputation suggests, because there's unlikely to be a cavalry any time soon.  He may have a fully developed offense to bail him out, but there's a lot of work to be done and few resources to plug in.  

Lou's tenure was the Fisher-Price My First DC job treatment.  Golden's will be the Thoughts and Prayers era.  Guess it's a good thing he's spent some time hanging with touchdown Jesus.  He'll need all the help he can get.

We aren't too picky, give us a middle of the road Defense and Al you have done your job.

The guy he replaced along with the other coaches wasted one of the best seasons by a QB in recent memory.

All we ask is for them to not be historically bad like Lou's D last year was.

Replace Rankins, Stone and Bell with some decent FA's worth their salt on Defense would be a great start. We have a lot of money to work 
with even after we do the extensions for Ja'Marr and Trey.

[puddycat]

Boo-Hoo. He got the dream job of a lifetime in a place where he has a good chance of getting a ring.
I expect our defense to be much better almost immediately.
He played Pratt as a 2-down backer because he looked at him and saw a 2-down backer. He didn't look at him and see that he could be a different player than he was.
I think he'll see Stone as a deep roaming split safety and not a player at the position of safety who should therefore be able to play in the box.
I expect that we will play our best DLine players more depending on their play on not what they are paid, when they were drafted, and how they looked at the combine.

[BFritz21]

What I like about Golden is that he's starting with the basics and just trying to improve tackling and fix other fundamentals. He knows he can't dog anything if defenders can't do the basics.

The second part that I like, and another reason why I think he'll have our defense in at least the top half of the league, is that he's not setting himself to one standard and he's not going to call plays and hope that the players can execute, but rather he's going to call defenses that play to the players' strengths.

Improve the interior d line and secondary in the draft and/or free agency, and I feel confident that Golden and give us a middle of the road defense, which will be all we need to be successful.

[Joelist]

Golden has pieces to work with. Jenkins was solid mostly and McKinney flashed more as the season went on. Also DJ Turner and Dax Hill return from injury. Then there is Murphy, Josh Newton and Cam Taylor Britt. Plenty of pieces all of whom have flashed real ability for Golden to get coached up. And more will come in this year’s draft. Golden has a big job but also has a lot of pieces already to work with. Let’s see how he does.

[NUGDUKWE]

If things work out with us signing Tee i imagine he'll get most of the draft for the defense. I also would have to imagine a part of why we let Lou go is his inability or lack of interest in changing his scheme to players strengths. Hopefully golden is a bit better in this area. I just worry about the man coverage. Hopefully that was just with the personnel he had and he likes zone as well.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(02-16-2025, 09:57 PM)Joelist Wrote: Golden has pieces to work with. Jenkins was solid mostly and McKinney flashed more as the season went on. Also DJ Turner and Dax Hill return from injury. Then there is Murphy, Josh Newton and Cam Taylor Britt. Plenty of pieces all of whom have flashed real ability for Golden to get coached up. And more will come in this year’s draft. Golden has a big job but also has a lot of pieces already to work with. Let’s see how he does.

He has the complementary pieces but what he’s missing is the pieces to plug those complementary pieces around.

He has one star and that star is likely going to be traded or holding out. Otherwise he’ll hope Logan Wilson returns to his best and one of the corners becomes a no.1.

He’ll likely get a first and a second or a first and a third and a couple of ascending free agents and he’ll need to strike gold.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-16-2025, 10:21 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: If things work out with us signing Tee i imagine he'll get most of the draft for the defense. I also would have to imagine a part of why we let Lou go is his inability or lack of interest in changing his scheme to players strengths. Hopefully golden is a bit better in this area. I just worry about the man coverage. Hopefully that was just with the personnel he had and he likes zone as well.

I think at least part was who he targeted in free agency & the last couple of drafts. The bottom line is the last 4 drafts the top 3 or a total of 12 we hit on Mims and CTB. None of the others started.

[NUGDUKWE]

(02-17-2025, 04:18 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I think at least part was who he targeted in free agency & the last couple of drafts. The bottom line is the last 4 drafts the top 3 or a total of 12 we hit on Mims and CTB. None of the others started.

Probably a part of it but I just wasn't sure how much say he has in those processes. I'd assume it was a decent amount but with the stories of Pollack wanting Humphrey and not Carman you never know.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

We have plenty of $$ to improve the D if we cut the dead weight (Cappa, Rankins), mostly dead weight (Hubbard, Volson) and maybe some of the overpaid/underperforming weight (Moss, McPherson, Pratt, Stone).

We are going to have to transition to getting younger. But there is room for bringing back a couple quality vets (Hilton, Hill, Gesicki) and adding a trench guy or three (OG, DT, DE). But probably only real big spend ($10 mil+) at 2 spots.

We'll see how the deals for Tee, Trey, and Chase look in terms of cap and how Hilton, Hill, Gesicki and the cuts shake out.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-17-2025, 05:20 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Probably a part of it but I just wasn't sure how much say he has in those processes. I'd assume it was a decent amount but with the stories of Pollack wanting Humphrey and not Carman you never know.

Well everybody probably wanted Creed but we needed a guard over center. Let’s not forget a lot of teams passed on Creed. Carman looked like a great pick because of his versatility. Inside the building they say they got some bad intel on Carman was far as work ethic/professionalism. 

[SunsetBengal]

(02-17-2025, 05:52 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: We have plenty of $$ to improve the D if we cut the dead weight (Cappa, Rankins), mostly dead weight (Hubbard, Volson) and maybe some of the overpaid/underperforming weight (Moss, McPherson, Pratt, Stone).

We are going to have to transition to getting younger. But there is room for bringing back a couple quality vets (Hilton, Hill, Gesicki) and adding a trench guy or three (OG, DT, DE). But probably only real big spend ($10 mil+) at 2 spots.

We'll see how the deals for Tee, Trey, and Chase look in terms of cap and how Hilton, Hill, Gesicki and the cuts shake out.

According to Spotrac, Mike Gesicki has a current estimated Market Value of $8.2M, BJ Hill $9M, and the shocker is Mike Hilton worth an estimated $12.3M.

[higgy100]

(02-17-2025, 04:10 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: He has the complementary pieces but what he’s missing is the pieces to plug those complementary pieces around.

He has one star and that star is likely going to be traded or holding out. Otherwise he’ll hope Logan Wilson returns to his best and one of the corners becomes a no.1.

He’ll likely get a first and a second or a first and a third and a couple of ascending free agents and he’ll need to strike gold.

Yep. Al's got his work cut out for him far more than people realize. And if Trey doesn't come close to his sack numbers then it looms even larger. Need Wilson to be his best version and need far far better S play.Last thing I want to hear is how well the D played the last 4 games or so.

[007BengalsFan]

(02-16-2025, 03:33 PM)CJD Wrote: You forgot what else the front office gave Lou in his time here: Intense levels of draft capital into the defense. From 2022 to 2024, The Bengals drafted defense in 8 of their 10 day 1 and day 2 picks. The only non-defense picks were Amarius Mims and (ugh) Jermaine Burton in 2024.

Of those 8 players, only 1 is arguably locked in as a quality starter on this defense, Dax Hill (and some may even say he's still an unknown). Cam and DJ have had their moments, but have also been maddeningly inconsistent, Zach Carter is already gone, Jordan Battle started the year on the bench before slowly taking snaps away from Bell, but has not yet proven that he should definitely hold a starter's spot yet, Murphy is...who even knows what he is. He had 0 sacks last year and the coaches never seemed to trust him to be a starter. And we're already talking about DT being our biggest need because we drafted Kris Jenkins and McKinnley Jackson in 2024, neither of whom actually showed proof that they could be a quality starter on this defense.

This is what ultimately got Lou fired. He was unable to develop premium talent that was given to him through the draft.


It should not require major injections from the free agency when you're spending the entire front end of multiple drafts on infusing talent into the defense. Free agency should always be a complement to your drafting successes.

The Bengals let talent leave from the defense instead of paying them, then draft a bunch of bad to mediocre talent and its Lou's fault they arent better?    Lou should have been able to turn Zach Carter into a good DT?  How did Carter do with the Raiders last year?  He had Patrick Graham as his DC and a bunch of people wanted Graham as the DC instead of Golden so why didnt Graham do anything with Carter if Graham was such a good DC as some have claimed? 

The Bengals let Bates go so they drafted Dax Hill with the intention of him taking over for Bates.  Lou gave him a chance at safety and he was horrible which is why he was moved to cornerback.  If Hill is this great talented player Lou should have developed I guess we can move him back to safety now that Golden is here?  I think most people that saw Hill play safety would agree the move to cornerback was the right decision

Myles Murphy was never an elite pass rusher in college and even when he was drafted people were questioning the pick but Lou is to fault for Murphy not being good?  Murphy was always a big gamble with the 1st round draft pick.  I wouldnt expect him to turn into Aiden Hutchinson just because Golden is now the DC.

I could list issues with most of the rest of the picks but the overall talent we have on defense is mediocre withe exception of Hendrickson.  I do think the defense will be better this year because these guys have some more experience and should be healthy but I wouldnt expect anything more than a mediocre defense if they dont add some quality free agents.  Lou should not be blamed for the lack of talent he had to work with and neither should Golden.  Golden does not have a ton of talent to work with at this moment.  I do think it could be tough sledding for Golden this year.

[NUGDUKWE]

(Yesterday, 07:39 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: The Bengals let talent leave from the defense instead of paying them, then draft a bunch of bad to mediocre talent and its Lou's fault they arent better?    Lou should have been able to turn Zach Carter into a good DT?  How did Carter do with the Raiders last year?  He had Patrick Graham as his DC and a bunch of people wanted Graham as the DC instead of Golden so why didnt Graham do anything with Carter if Graham was such a good DC as some have claimed? 

The Bengals let Bates go so they drafted Dax Hill with the intention of him taking over for Bates.  Lou gave him a chance at safety and he was horrible which is why he was moved to cornerback.  If Hill is this great talented player Lou should have developed I guess we can move him back to safety now that Golden is here?  I think most people that saw Hill play safety would agree the move to cornerback was the right decision

Myles Murphy was never an elite pass rusher in college and even when he was drafted people were questioning the pick but Lou is to fault for Murphy not being good?  Murphy was always a big gamble with the 1st round draft pick.  I wouldnt expect him to turn into Aiden Hutchinson just because Golden is now the DC.

I could list issues with most of the rest of the picks but the overall talent we have on defense is mediocre withe exception of Hendrickson.  I do think the defense will be better this year because these guys have some more experience and should be healthy but I wouldnt expect anything more than a mediocre defense if they dont add some quality free agents.  Lou should not be blamed for the lack of talent he had to work with and neither should Golden.  Golden does not have a ton of talent to work with at this moment.  I do think it could be tough sledding for Golden this year.

I agree. I think we steadily reduced the talent Lou was given and we greatly underestimated Bates value to our secondary and defense overall. I just think where Lou is at fault is he should've simplified what he was asking his players to do much sooner.

[Soonerpeace]

(Yesterday, 07:45 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I agree. I think we steadily reduced the talent Lou was given and we greatly underestimated Bates value to our secondary and defense overall. I just think where Lou is at fault is he should've simplified what he was asking his players to do much sooner.

We don’t know all the intricacies of it all. I think Lou was prominent in drafting the defensive players. I think the FO went against his thoughts on Bates and maybe Vonn. But really Myles Murphy,Ossai,Dax Hill? But I heard a comment by a major national ESPN guy ( sorry can’t remember who) they blasted management over Lou’s firing.