Vet or high draft pick to replace Hubbard?

[*ochocincos*]

With Hubbard retiring and Ossai hitting FA, that leaves just Myles Murphy, Cedric Johnson, and Isaiah Thomas as the only DEs apart from Hendrickson.
At least one DE, if not multiple, will be added this offseason to cover for the departures, potentially one who would/could be thrust into a starting role.

So my question for you is...given this draft class and pool of FAs, would you rather see Hubbard's starting DE spot filled with a vet? Or would you rather see a high draft pick compete with Murphy for the spot?

When I look at the vets on the table that I think Bengals would consider, two names pop out to me - Chase Young and newly-released Joey Bosa.
Bosa isn't quite the savage pass rusher he was entering the league, but he's still solid. On top of that, he and his brother are friends with Burrow.
Young I believe is also friends with Burrow from their time at Ohio St, and Young is younger. Chase Young only turns 26 this April, so he's just entering his prime.
He hasn't to-date put up production like Bosa had though.

For draft picks, I look at guys like James Pearce Jr. (whom the Bengals met with at the Combine), Nic Scourton, and some other 1st rounders.
JPJ is more fitting of a weak-side DE who can be a double-digit sack artist, whereas I see Scourton more as a guy like Dunlap who will more likely be in the 7-9 range most years but better against the run.
Someone like Shemar Stewart isn't as well refined, but his ceiling may be higher than both of the above guys. I've seen a Stewart comp of Jadeveon Clowney, which I feel is pretty close. Clowney never amounted to what we would expect a 1st overall pick to be and savage pass rusher, but he was a good DE who has 11 years in the league.

Which way do you lean to cover starting DE duties opposite of Hendrickson for 2025?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Sign Josh Sweat (and extend Hendrickson).

[WeezyBengal]

At some point you've gotta get Murphy snaps to see what exactly he is. It's a do or die year for him.

I'm so pissed it's going to take them this long for them to do that. He should have been getting a ton of snaps in the second half of last year with Hubbard being innefective/injured.

To answer your question, though...they are 100% going DL in the first round IMO. Whether its inside or edge is to be determined. That's the tricky part of all this. You are going to need a veteran either on the inside or edge depending on who you draft.

Who they nab in free agency is going to be telling. If they grab an inside vet, they will most likely draft edge. If they grab an edge vet, they will most likely draft inside.

That's a bit troublesome in itself because at that point you aren't taking best player available on the defensive line. You are filling for need.

[Goalpost]

I would try to keep Ossai. He's likely not too costly to keep.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-06-2025, 11:30 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: At some point you've gotta get Murphy snaps to see what exactly he is. It's a do or die year for him.

I'm so pissed it's going to take them this long for them to do that. He should have been getting a ton of snaps in the second half of last year with Hubbard being innefective/injured.

To answer your question, though...they are 100% going DL in the first round IMO. Whether its inside or edge is to be determined. That's the tricky part of all this. You are going to need a veteran either on the inside or edge depending on who you draft.

Who they nab in free agency is going to be telling. If they grab an inside vet, they will most likely draft edge. If they grab an edge vet, they will most likely draft inside.

That's a bit troublesome in itself because at that point you aren't taking best player available on the defensive line. You are filling for need.

658 snaps not enough to see what he is at this point?
That's about as much as a full-time starting DE in a year on some teams.

I agree, in hindsight, they should have been giving Ossai's snaps to Murphy if Ossai really wasn't in the long-term picture, but I know they were hoping to make the playoffs and probably felt Ossai could help give them better chance at that than Murphy.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-06-2025, 11:35 AM)Goalpost Wrote: I would try to keep Ossai.  He's likely not too costly to keep.

Ossai really did have a good final month of the season.
If December 2024 is really who he will be like, I'm game for that.
I think he could be a 6-8 sack guy.
His run defense though was not good, so he may have to be a situational pass rusher.

[higgy100]

(03-06-2025, 11:35 AM)Goalpost Wrote: I would try to keep Ossai.  He's likely not too costly to keep.

I don't think they'll let him go anywhere. 

[WeezyBengal]

(03-06-2025, 11:52 AM)ochocincos Wrote: 658 snaps not enough to see what he is at this point?
That's about as much as a full-time starting DE in a year on some teams.

I agree, in hindsight, they should have been giving Ossai's snaps to Murphy if Ossai really wasn't in the long-term picture, but I know they were hoping to make the playoffs and probably felt Ossai could help give them better chance at that than Murphy.

He's still only 23 which is crazy. He did show some flashes of doing somethings well last year. He has a crazy fast get off, he just really struggles to finish at times. HOpefully new coaching can help him in a big way. 

[coachmcneil71]

(03-06-2025, 11:17 AM)ochocincos Wrote: With Hubbard retiring and Ossai hitting FA, that leaves just Myles Murphy, Cedric Johnson, and Isaiah Thomas as the only DEs apart from Hendrickson.
At least one DE, if not multiple, will be added this offseason to cover for the departures, potentially one who would/could be thrust into a starting role.

So my question for you is...given this draft class and pool of FAs, would you rather see Hubbard's starting DE spot filled with a vet? Or would you rather see a high draft pick compete with Murphy for the spot?

When I look at the vets on the table that I think Bengals would consider, two names pop out to me - Chase Young and newly-released Joey Bosa.
Bosa isn't quite the savage pass rusher he was entering the league, but he's still solid. On top of that, he and his brother are friends with Burrow.
Young I believe is also friends with Burrow from their time at Ohio St, and Young is younger. Chase Young only turns 26 this April, so he's just entering his prime.
He hasn't to-date put up production like Bosa had though.

For draft picks, I look at guys like James Pearce Jr. (whom the Bengals met with at the Combine), Nic Scourton, and some other 1st rounders.
JPJ is more fitting of a weak-side DE who can be a double-digit sack artist, whereas I see Scourton more as a guy like Dunlap who will more likely be in the 7-9 range most years but better against the run.
Someone like Shemar Stewart isn't as well refined, but his ceiling may be higher than both of the above guys. I've seen a Stewart comp of Jadeveon Clowney, which I feel is pretty close. Clowney never amounted to what we would expect a 1st overall pick to be and savage pass rusher, but he was a good DE who has 11 years in the league.

Which way do you lean to cover starting DE duties opposite of Hendrickson for 2025?

Drafting Pearce sounds very Bengal-esk! I know he had a good combine, but the character issues are swirling loudly. Plus The OSU completely shut him down with a second string o-line. Myles Murphy (1st rd) has barely touched the field. I would probably split the difference. Try to get a young dude and sign a vet like you mentioned. 

[THE PISTONS]

I'd see if Bosa wanted to come here. I think he and Burrow are friends.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-06-2025, 12:05 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: He's still only 23 which is crazy. He did show some flashes of doing somethings well last year. He has a crazy fast get off, he just really struggles to finish at times. HOpefully new coaching can help him in a big way. 

He is young. The scary thing is he has 0 sacks last year.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-06-2025, 11:35 AM)Goalpost Wrote: I would try to keep Ossai. He's likely not too costly to keep.

You wouldn’t think so, but who knows, he’s represented by David Mulugheta.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

I lean towards a pick. Sweat is a good (but not great) DE who will command top dollar.

A day 1-2 pick + Trey + Murphy + a cheap/moderately priced vet (Ossai, or maybe a bit pricier) + Johnson is 5.

1) Extend Trey & Chase
2) Restructure Joe
3) Lock up Tee long term
4) Sign or trade for a top end G and sign/draft another solud starter type.
5) Bring back Gesicki
6) Draft at least 1 DT early and sign/draft another fairly early.

Then see where we are and go from there on Pratt/Stone/Hill etc.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-06-2025, 12:33 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You wouldn’t think so, but who knows, he’s  represented by David Mulugheta.

He's actually on some of the Top 100 free agent lists I've seen...much higher up than his production warrants. So he could actually have a a few teams that think he's ready to break out.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-06-2025, 12:42 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I lean towards a pick. Sweat is a good (but not great) DE who will command top dollar.

A day 1-2 pick + Trey + Murphy + a cheap/moderately priced vet (Ossai, or maybe a bit pricier) + Johnson is 5.

1) Extend Trey & Chase
2) Restructure Joe
3) Lock up Tee long term
4) Sign or trade for a top end G and sign/draft another solud starter type.
5) Bring back Gesicki
6) Draft at least 1 DT early and sign/draft another fairly early.

Then see where we are and go from there on Pratt/Stone/Hill etc.

I'd probably try for Bosa in free agency. Might give Chase Young a look at the right price. (That price is not as a star, but as a rotation player.)

I'd look at like Milton Williams at DT.

But, your plan is pretty similar to what I'd try.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-06-2025, 12:26 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Drafting Pierce sounds very Bengal-esk! I know he had a good combine, but the character issues are swirling loudly. Plus The OSU completely shut him down with a second string o-line. Myles Murphy (1st rd) has barely touched the field. I would probably split the difference. Try to get a young dude and sign a vet like you mentioned. 

(03-06-2025, 12:42 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I lean towards a pick. Sweat is a good (but not great) DE who will command top dollar.

A day 1-2 pick + Trey + Murphy + a cheap/moderately priced vet (Ossai, or maybe a bit pricier) + Johnson is 5.

1) Extend Trey & Chase
2) Restructure Joe
3) Lock up Tee long term
4) Sign or trade for a top end G and sign/draft another solud starter type.
5) Bring back Gesicki
6) Draft at least 1 DT early and sign/draft another fairly early.

Then see where we are and go from there on Pratt/Stone/Hill etc.

So Ossai (or of the like), Murphy, and the draft pick competing for starting role/significant snaps or in a heavy rotation?
Would the vet only be signed for 1 year?
Because if you sign a vet for multiple years plus want to see if Murphy is worth a damn AND invest a 1st or 2nd round pick, that's a lot of capital for limited snaps for some/all of them.

That's why I did not propose someone like Ossai plus a high draft pick, as I would have to imagine Ossai would want to go to a place that gives him best chance to start or play 500+ snaps.
And if Ossai were to play 500+ snaps for the Bengals, that'd basically relegate Murphy and a high draft pick to sub-400 snaps for the next 1-2 years.

[*Synric*]

(03-06-2025, 12:42 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I lean towards a pick. Sweat is a good (but not great) DE who will command top dollar.

Top Dollar for Edge Defenders is now 35m aav and Sweat will likely be around 20-22m aav. 3 years 60m would be cap hits of like 15, 20, 25m and the third year would be an option year.

[Bengalbug]

(03-06-2025, 01:00 PM)Synric Wrote: Top Dollar for Edge Defenders is now 35m aav and Sweat will likely be around 20-22m aav. 3 years 60m would be cap hits of like 15, 20, 25m and the third year would be an option year.

Sweat is going to get overpaid this offseason. I, for one, would stay away.

1. Half the teams have approximately $40,000,000 or more in available cap space.
2. Edge rushers are a premium asset and this is a deflated FA class.
3. Sweat was part of an overall really good DL, where more often than not, there wasn’t a singular focus, meaning more 1 on 1s.
4. Sweat will ultimately sign for $25,000,000+ in AAV, and he will get an overwhelming majority 70-85% guaranteed.

If the bengals can’t/wont operate within these types of parameters, with arguably better players on the roster, what makes us think that they will attract, and sign, Sweat?

It’s wild how much we, as fans, try to tear down our current players (Hendrickson/Tee isn’t worth “X”, but we need to go get player “a”, and they will come at a discount).

The only way sweat comes here is if falls in their laps, ala Orlando Brown Jr.

[*Synric*]

(03-06-2025, 01:14 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Sweat is going to get overpaid this offseason.  I, for one, would stay away.

1.  Half the teams have approximately $40,000,000 or more in available cap space.
2. Edge rushers are a premium asset and this is a deflated FA class.
3. Sweat was part of an overall really good DL, where more often than not, there wasn’t a singular focus, meaning more 1 on 1s.
4.  Sweat will ultimately sign for $25,000,000+ in AAV, and he will get an overwhelming majority 70-85% guaranteed.  

If the bengals can’t/wont operate within these types of parameters, with arguably better players on the roster, what makes us think that they will attract, and sign, Sweat?  

It’s wild how much we, as fans, try to tear down our current players (Hendrickson/Tee isn’t worth “X”, but we need to go get player “a”, and they will come at a discount).

The only way sweat comes here is if falls in their laps, ala Orlando Brown Jr.

Josh Sweat was playing solid in Philly 3 or 4 seasons before Carter, Davis, Williams, Smith were drafted. 

[THE PISTONS]

re: Joey Bosa - I wonder what his market will be. He hasn't produced a lot of sacks over past 3 years.