Near miss and a possible Guard

[Luvnit2]

(03-12-2025, 04:34 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: But they can get Jenkins at a value. That’s all that matters

A value to me is 4 million a year or less. What is your value?

BTW..I see Jenkins making a ton more than 4 million a year.

[J24]

(03-12-2025, 12:28 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think they are too comfortable with players that while may be good (Ossai, Hill), can be upgraded.

But their thought seems to be why upgrade them if they can just bring them back and keep status quo. 

In their defense the DT and Edge market were not that robust. 

(03-12-2025, 02:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think it's a cost and trust thing.

They could be afraid to roll the dice on an outside vet who may perform like a Sheldon Rankins or Trae Waynes and not be worth the money.
At least with Hill and Ossai, they know what they are getting.
Plus, they are usually setting a hard budget willing to spend and won't typically pay for the top-cost guys who are more trustworthy to perform.

They over value role players and under value stars. Especially when it comes to non primary positions.

(03-12-2025, 02:32 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They're not going to pay top dollar for external free agents.

Once the dust settles and the price tags come down because cap space is gone around the league...they'll swoop in.

There not even paying their own players right now (outside of Burrow). 

(03-12-2025, 04:46 PM)jj22 Wrote: Paying "top dollar" for free agents is what got them to the SB and AFCC..... 

Bargain hunting has got them nowhere in the last 30 years.

Not really true (outside of maybe DJ Reader). in 2021 they really didnt spend a whole lot of money on guys like Chidobe , Larry O, Mike Hilton, and Hendrickson. The Bengals have always gone for the for multiple cheap role guys over one elite player.

[Luvnit2]

(03-12-2025, 04:46 PM)jj22 Wrote: Paying "top dollar" for free agents is what got them to the SB and AFCC..... 

Bargain hunting has got them nowhere in the last 30 years.

I thought it was drafting Burrow, Chase, Higgins and all three on rookie contracts............

[Frank Booth]

(03-12-2025, 04:54 PM)TJHoushmandzadehs Shiny Shoes Wrote: It was finding value in free agency in Awuzie, Bell, Hendrickson and DJ Reader.

They all outperformed their deals.

I recall them having to “over pay” for reader

and congrats. It didn’t really work out for Stone, Nick Scott, and that other DT from Houston they just released

[*Au165*]

(03-12-2025, 04:46 PM)jj22 Wrote: Paying "top dollar" for free agents is what got them to the SB and AFCC..... 

Bargain hunting has got them nowhere in the last 30 years.

Not really true. If you go back into the FA's proceeding the SB run we usually paid one elite guy like Reader or Trey and then filled the rest of FA with bargin shopping. People look fondly back at Vonn Bell on that run but he signed 7 days in after the safety market basically dried up. Mike Hilton got a pretty mid tier deal and Awuzie, who wasn't even ranked in the top 101 FA's at the time, we took swings on guys who hadn't worked out at their last stop coming off rookie deals they thought there was upside with. We did sign Cappa who was the 51st rated FA at the time to open FA but then we came back and signed Ted Karras a bit of a journeyman who had come off a kind of disappointing season in NE playing guard (not a 101 top FA that year).

Sure we did have the occasional big signing, because we lacked talent we were paying to an extent, but we actually have made a lot out of those bargain bin guys fueling that run. We remember the guys that worked out but man did we have a ton of misses too Trae Waynes, Xavier Soa'Filo, Riley Reiff, and so on.

[Bilbo Saggins]

(03-12-2025, 02:20 PM)higgy100 Wrote: No they weren't but OL today weigh 50-60  lbs. more than they did back in the 80's/90's. They're far more athletic as well. Ain't easy to get around /thru those big guys without some Dinty Moore beef stew in their own system.

It's a salient point about the 80s. Looks like OL played at ~275, bulking up to ~300 in the 90s. Modern day depends on the team. The Eagles starting OL last year averaged 338 lbs - very, very heavy.

But there's also a salient point to what people are saying about TJ Watt, Parsons, Goldsmith, etc. The Bengals just don't seem interested in drafting ends without prototypical size until round 3 or later. I don't see how they're ever going to draft a double digit sack type of guy if they refuse to spend early round draft capital on smaller ends. How often does a player like Carlos Dunlap fall into the second? Where did the Bengals have guys like Watt and Parsons on their board? They did well to find Dunlap, they did well to find Hendrickson, but some amount of luck was involved in both acquisitions. One fell in the draft. One said, "Hey my wife wants to go to school here. I want to sign with a team that's close." Good thing she didn't take classes in Maine!

It's not that I'm upset about Ojulari. It's good that they put out feelers. It's that they seem set in their ways despite plenty of evidence to suggest that they ought to change their processes with regard to trench players. 

[*ochocincos*]

(03-12-2025, 05:03 PM)J24 Wrote: In their defense the DT and Edge market were not that robust. 
They over value role players and under value stars. Especially when it comes to non primary positions.
There not even paying their own players right now (outside of Burrow). 

Not really true (outside of maybe DJ Reader). in 2021 they really didnt spend a whole lot of money on guys like Chidobe , Larry O, Mike Hilton, and Hendrickson. The Bengals have always gone for the for multiple cheap role guys over one elite player.

This may be the case, and I compare that to what we see some companies do with salary ranges.

Some companies have small ranges and basically feel that strong performers only need to be making just a few thousand more (or in NFL few million more) vs mid-performers.

And they don't realize (or refuse to accept) that these high performers actually are being paid (well) below market value compared to if they went elsewhere.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-12-2025, 02:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Completely agree, late as a rookie we saw of bit of what Murphy can do when he was lighter. Like you say, he needs to shed some weight
and get his quicks back and we could see that 1st round talent back. MM gained too much muscle last season and it slowed him down and
you could see it out there. He did beat some OL last season, but he had a much slower first step and he had problems finishing.


All good points. Makes them a little gun shy when you get these Rankins/Waynes signings. We know what we have in BJ Hill and Ossai.

The good news with Ossai is I think he is still ascending as a player. Could be the same with BJ as well and we know he will work his ass off.

Important for people to remember/realize that Ossai still isn't even 25 years old.
I know I didn't realize it until someone on Twitter pointed it out.
He may just be hitting his stride.

Out of the DL signings so far, I have the most optimism for his growth when it comes to pass rusher.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-12-2025, 07:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Important for people to remember/realize that Ossai still isn't even 25 years old.
I know I didn't realize it until someone on Twitter pointed it out.
He may just be hitting his stride.

Out of the DL signings so far, I have the most optimism for his growth when it comes to pass rusher.

Exactly, the biggest mistake could be the contract is only for one year.

[XsandOs]

(03-12-2025, 07:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Important for people to remember/realize that Ossai still isn't even 25 years old.
I know I didn't realize it until someone on Twitter pointed it out.
He may just be hitting his stride.

Out of the DL signings so far, I have the most optimism for his growth when it comes to pass rusher.

I agree. I am assuming that Golden talked him about using him in multiple fronts as Edge and OLB.

Ossai get a bad rep for the last play in AFC Championship game, but he played really well in that game.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-12-2025, 07:30 PM)XsandOs Wrote: I agree. I am assuming that Golden talked him about using him in multiple fronts as Edge and OLB.

Ossai get a bad rep for the last play in AFC Championship game, but he played really well in that game.  

He did. Ossai fits Golden's Defense more than Trey too, a little undersized but can stand up and even drop into coverage and be a blitzing LB
if needed. Always liked how Texas used him and that is how Golden I bet uses him. Ossai had a knack for taking really good angles and getting
TFL with Texas. Him being young still means he can learn.

[XsandOs]

(03-12-2025, 07:35 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: He did. Ossai fits Golden's Defense more than Trey too, a little undersized but can stand up and even drop into coverage and be a blitzing LB
if needed. Always liked how Texas used him and that is how Golden I bet uses him. Ossai had a knack for taking really good angles and getting
TFL with Texas. Him being young still means he can learn.

Agreed, Nate!

He can be on the field regardless of whether you run a 4-3-4, 4-2-5, 3-3-5, etc., or whether you have Trey on the field or not.  

He has experience as MLB as well as OLB and Edge - two and three point. 

On the next to last play in the AFC Championship, he rushed from the interior and almost sacked Mahomes - which caused the incompletion.

[Frank Booth]

I must give my money to Mike Brown and his family

beep boop

[jj22]

(03-12-2025, 05:10 PM)Au165 Wrote: Not really true. If you go back into the FA's proceeding the SB run we usually paid one elite guy like Reader or Trey and then filled the rest of FA with bargin shopping. People look fondly back at Vonn Bell on that run but he signed 7 days in after the safety market basically dried up. Mike Hilton got a pretty mid tier deal and Awuzie, who wasn't even ranked in the top 101 FA's at the time, we took swings on guys who hadn't worked out at their last stop coming off rookie deals they thought there was upside with. We did sign Cappa who was the 51st rated FA at the time to open FA but then we came back and signed Ted Karras a bit of a journeyman who had come off a kind of disappointing season in NE playing guard (not a 101 top FA that year).

Sure we did have the occasional big signing, because we lacked talent we were paying to an extent, but we actually have made a lot out of those bargain bin guys fueling that run. We remember the guys that worked out but man did we have a ton of misses too Trae Waynes, Xavier Soa'Filo, Riley Reiff, and so on.

True

[kalibengal]

(03-12-2025, 08:03 PM)jj22 Wrote: True

Zeitler to Titans
another one gone...

[jj22]

It’s the other positions that they needed to upgrade. If anything I was ok with focusing on the Dline throughout the draft. This was the draft to do it. I really don’t have anything bad to say about any of our signings.

And I agree if they sign some guards then that helps.

I think it was a better FA safety class than last offseason. So I hate they opting to run it back with Stone. That’s the head scratcher for me.

And obviously the lack of movement on the big 3.

To be fair you can’t back the brinks truck up for outside talent when you won’t pay your 3 stars. So they are limited even if they could free up more cap. That would be a self inflicted gaffe. 

[SunsetBengal]

(03-12-2025, 02:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The thing I always think of when I see Teven's name mentioned. It's who we woulda/coulda/shoulda took when we traded back and got Carman

I believe that there was at least a handful of regulars that were wishing for him that season. However, at that time we wanted him to play RT.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

This is how preliminary talks go:

Bengals: Can I buy you a drink?

Ojulari: I have a boyfriend.

THE END

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-12-2025, 08:21 PM)jj22 Wrote: It’s the other positions that they needed to upgrade. If anything I was ok with focusing on the Dline throughout the draft. This was the draft to do it. I really don’t have anything bad to say about any of our signings.

And I agree if they sign some guards then that helps.

I think it was a better FA safety class than last offseason. So I hate they opting to run it back with Stone. That’s the head scratcher for me.

And obviously the lack of movement on the big 3.

To be fair you can’t back the brinks truck up for outside talent when you won’t pay your 3 stars. So they are limited even if they could free up more cap. That would be a self inflicted gaffe. 

Like not re-signing them earlier?

[Frank Booth]

(03-13-2025, 12:54 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: This is how preliminary talks go:

Bengals: Can I buy you a drink?

Ojulari: I have a boyfriend.

THE END

no it's more like

Bengals: Can I buy you a drink?

Free agent: Sure, I'll take a martini

Bengals: Bartender, martini?

Bartender: That'll be $20 dollars

Bengals: Ok bye